The appearance of the villain(s)

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  • Posts: 4,617
    I am not talking about crime, but evil. Not the same thing even if they can overlap.
    Keep digging,
    you can spot evil people in a line up?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,338
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And even in Die Hard, they cast for villains actors who looked menacing, even for the extras. I said before, the banality of evil can work beautifully too, for example in the novels of Elmore Leonard, when many villains are low life thugs and losers. But in the Bond universe there is a dimension of baroque and benign bizarre that is reflected with the villains.

    Yes, indeed and Franciso Scaramanga from the novel TMWTGG certainly fitted this bill as did Horror and Sluggsy from TSWLM. Kristatos in the film of FYEO also fitted the bill of what Hannah Arendt called "the banality of evil" as did Dominic Greene in QoS though perhaps to a lesser extent.
  • Posts: 15,218
    patb wrote: »
    So disabled or disfigured people are evil more often than not? I hope there are not any disabled Bond fans reading this stuff. The Victorians thought there was a link and you can see sketches of what Victorian criminologist thought evil looked like. Thank fully, we have moved on.
    PS and I suppose Stephen Hawking must be REALLY evil? and my God, how much collective evil was there at the 2012 Paralympics?

    you are building a strawman. Nobody says all Bond villains should have liabilities. We are saying they can. I.doubt anyone in a wheelchair was offended by Blofeld in the pts of FYEO.
  • Posts: 15,218
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And even in Die Hard, they cast for villains actors who looked menacing, even for the extras. I said before, the banality of evil can work beautifully too, for example in the novels of Elmore Leonard, when many villains are low life thugs and losers. But in the Bond universe there is a dimension of baroque and benign bizarre that is reflected with the villains.

    Yes, indeed and Franciso Scaramanga from the novel TMWTGG certainly fitted this bill as did Horror and Sluggsy from TSWLM. Kristatos in the film of FYEO also fitted the bill of what Hannah Arendt called "the banality of evil" as did Dominic Greene in QoS though perhaps to a lesser extent.

    No offence to Amalric, but I think his slimy, creepy look was far from banal. He didn't need makeup.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,338
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And even in Die Hard, they cast for villains actors who looked menacing, even for the extras. I said before, the banality of evil can work beautifully too, for example in the novels of Elmore Leonard, when many villains are low life thugs and losers. But in the Bond universe there is a dimension of baroque and benign bizarre that is reflected with the villains.

    Yes, indeed and Franciso Scaramanga from the novel TMWTGG certainly fitted this bill as did Horror and Sluggsy from TSWLM. Kristatos in the film of FYEO also fitted the bill of what Hannah Arendt called "the banality of evil" as did Dominic Greene in QoS though perhaps to a lesser extent.

    No offence to Amalric, but I think his slimy, creepy look was far from banal. He didn't need makeup.

    Yes, that was kind of what I was getting at.

    I suppose you could say that Brad Whitaker and General Koskov were rather banal too, though perhaps they were less than evil?
  • Posts: 4,617
    Ludovico wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    So disabled or disfigured people are evil more often than not? I hope there are not any disabled Bond fans reading this stuff. The Victorians thought there was a link and you can see sketches of what Victorian criminologist thought evil looked like. Thank fully, we have moved on.
    PS and I suppose Stephen Hawking must be REALLY evil? and my God, how much collective evil was there at the 2012 Paralympics?

    you are building a strawman. Nobody says all Bond villains should have liabilities. We are saying they can. I.doubt anyone in a wheelchair was offended by Blofeld in the pts of FYEO.

    No fair points, my comment was made at the claim that in the real world, more often than not, you can spot evil people by their appearance, that pressed one of my buttons, re Bond you are correct :-)
  • Posts: 15,218
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And even in Die Hard, they cast for villains actors who looked menacing, even for the extras. I said before, the banality of evil can work beautifully too, for example in the novels of Elmore Leonard, when many villains are low life thugs and losers. But in the Bond universe there is a dimension of baroque and benign bizarre that is reflected with the villains.

    Yes, indeed and Franciso Scaramanga from the novel TMWTGG certainly fitted this bill as did Horror and Sluggsy from TSWLM. Kristatos in the film of FYEO also fitted the bill of what Hannah Arendt called "the banality of evil" as did Dominic Greene in QoS though perhaps to a lesser extent.

    No offence to Amalric, but I think his slimy, creepy look was far from banal. He didn't need makeup.

    Yes, that was kind of what I was getting at.

    I suppose you could say that Brad Whitaker and General Koskov were rather banal too, though perhaps they were less than evil?

    One of my issues with TLD, which I loved otherwise: the villains were rather weak and a bit mundane. But even in TLD they needed one Aryan looking henchman. Which also shows that physical perfection and beauty when it is pushed to its extreme, can appear unsettling and sinister.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,338
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And even in Die Hard, they cast for villains actors who looked menacing, even for the extras. I said before, the banality of evil can work beautifully too, for example in the novels of Elmore Leonard, when many villains are low life thugs and losers. But in the Bond universe there is a dimension of baroque and benign bizarre that is reflected with the villains.

    Yes, indeed and Franciso Scaramanga from the novel TMWTGG certainly fitted this bill as did Horror and Sluggsy from TSWLM. Kristatos in the film of FYEO also fitted the bill of what Hannah Arendt called "the banality of evil" as did Dominic Greene in QoS though perhaps to a lesser extent.

    No offence to Amalric, but I think his slimy, creepy look was far from banal. He didn't need makeup.

    Yes, that was kind of what I was getting at.

    I suppose you could say that Brad Whitaker and General Koskov were rather banal too, though perhaps they were less than evil?

    One of my issues with TLD, which I loved otherwise: the villains were rather weak and a bit mundane. But even in TLD they needed one Aryan looking henchman. Which also shows that physical perfection and beauty when it is pushed to its extreme, can appear unsettling and sinister.

    The villains were certainly weak but Necros was the most menacing of the lot for me, though it wasn't a hard contest to be fair!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The true Aryans had red hair and green eyes, but I guess we are going with the Hitler definition.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,338
    The true Aryans had red hair and green eyes, but I guess we are going with the Hitler definition.

    Yes, Hitler rather popularised the Aryan Myth and cost countless lives in the process.
  • Posts: 15,218
    Weren't Aryans heretics? Or maybe I'm thinking of an homonymous term. But yes I was thinking of the popular definition. Necros was very menacing, but his good looks make him stand out and there is of course a reference to fascist idealism. I always Koskov looked brutish enough, but his attitude was all wrong.
  • patb wrote: »
    So disabled or disfigured people are evil more often than not? I hope there are not any disabled Bond fans reading this stuff. The Victorians thought there was a link and you can see sketches of what Victorian criminologist thought evil looked like. Thank fully, we have moved on.
    PS and I suppose Stephen Hawking must be REALLY evil? and my God, how much collective evil was there at the 2012 Paralympics?

    No. You have moved on. And not to a better place.

  • Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And even in Die Hard, they cast for villains actors who looked menacing, even for the extras. I said before, the banality of evil can work beautifully too, for example in the novels of Elmore Leonard, when many villains are low life thugs and losers. But in the Bond universe there is a dimension of baroque and benign bizarre that is reflected with the villains.

    Yes, indeed and Franciso Scaramanga from the novel TMWTGG certainly fitted this bill as did Horror and Sluggsy from TSWLM. Kristatos in the film of FYEO also fitted the bill of what Hannah Arendt called "the banality of evil" as did Dominic Greene in QoS though perhaps to a lesser extent.

    No offence to Amalric, but I think his slimy, creepy look was far from banal. He didn't need makeup.

    Yes, that was kind of what I was getting at.

    I suppose you could say that Brad Whitaker and General Koskov were rather banal too, though perhaps they were less than evil?

    One of my issues with TLD, which I loved otherwise: the villains were rather weak and a bit mundane. But even in TLD they needed one Aryan looking henchman. Which also shows that physical perfection and beauty when it is pushed to its extreme, can appear unsettling and sinister.


    Aryans of the world fight to rid yourself of the villainous "stereotype"! High time they got on the Victim Train.

  • The true Aryans had red hair and green eyes, but I guess we are going with the Hitler definition.

    I thought that was the Celts.

  • Posts: 15,218
    The true Aryans had red hair and green eyes, but I guess we are going with the Hitler definition.

    I thought that was the Celts.

    Celts were allegedly blond and tall and Saxons short and dark haired.
  • Posts: 15,218
    Since we now know at least of the appearance of Hinx, thought I would resurrect this thread to discuss it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    I like his look from the Still of him we have. A Thug with sophistication. I can't wait to see Hinx in action. I still hate the name though.
  • Posts: 12,526
    I like his look, but as already mentioned? Not a fan of the name?
  • Posts: 1,552
    Better than Mr. Kil ;)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    Mr. Kil sound better than Hinx.
  • Posts: 15,218
    Murdock wrote: »
    Mr. Kil sound better than Hinx.

    Actually no. Kil sounds as unsubtle as it is... And the character was even lamer. Hinx is already better. Is his name really worse than Grant (the magnificent henchman) or Oddjob? Hinx sounds nasty, like the stab of a sharp knife. Not the greatest name, but not the worst we've had.

    And in any case, his appearance is great. Not a Grant clone, or indeed any clone of what we've had before. He is clad in dark like the SPECTRE agents of old, yet there is that sophistication about him, as you said. And there is his beard and his cap, so out of place on a thug. A very menacing villain.
  • Posts: 1,552
    Going by the Empire article, he is an expert assassin and high ranking member of SPECTRE too - so that raises him above a common "henchman" to someone to keep an eye on...
  • Posts: 15,218
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Going by the Empire article, he is an expert assassin and high ranking member of SPECTRE too - so that raises him above a common "henchman" to someone to keep an eye on...

    I love him already. He will be a magnificent bastard.
  • Posts: 2,483
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Better than Mr. Kil ;)

    Conjures terrible flashbacks to Jinx and that really stinx.

  • Posts: 15,218
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Better than Mr. Kil ;)

    Conjures terrible flashbacks to Jinx and that really stinx.

    I never liked the name Jinx, but wonder if it is more because of the character.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 4,617
    Sorry to bring this thread up but I have just seen this trailer on Channel4 and it makes the point far better than I did during the initial debate and is even more topical now re Spectre (see ESB type character)

    http://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/channel-4-the-superhumans-return-4creative/1371862

    "Hats off to the team at 4Creative. No-one would have blamed them if they trailed Channel 4’s coverage of the 2016 Paralympic Games with a carbon copy of its goose-bump-inducing 2012 effort. But Channel 4’s first teasers for the Rio de Janeiro Paralympics take a different direction, drawing attention to the link between disabilities and Hollywood villains. The spot opens with disabled actors playing over-the-top baddies and then uses snapshots of Paralympic athletes to explain that disabled people can be the heroes too. The work was created by Jack Croft and Stacey Bird, and directed by Alex Boutell through 4Creative.
    Read more at http://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/channel-4-the-superhumans-return-4creative/1371862#8uqdG5zbWsilKVhZ.99";
  • Posts: 15,218
    patb wrote: »
    Sorry to bring this thread up but I have just seen this trailer on Channel4 and it makes the point far better than I did during the initial debate and is even more topical now re Spectre (see ESB type character)

    http://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/channel-4-the-superhumans-return-4creative/1371862

    "Hats off to the team at 4Creative. No-one would have blamed them if they trailed Channel 4’s coverage of the 2016 Paralympic Games with a carbon copy of its goose-bump-inducing 2012 effort. But Channel 4’s first teasers for the Rio de Janeiro Paralympics take a different direction, drawing attention to the link between disabilities and Hollywood villains. The spot opens with disabled actors playing over-the-top baddies and then uses snapshots of Paralympic athletes to explain that disabled people can be the heroes too. The work was created by Jack Croft and Stacey Bird, and directed by Alex Boutell through 4Creative.
    Read more at http://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/channel-4-the-superhumans-return-4creative/1371862#8uqdG5zbWsilKVhZ.99";

    Didn't Warwick Davis say he played the Leprechaun because he was fed up of playing friendly gnomes and Ewoks? And whose disabled actor would not LOVE to play Ahab?
  • Posts: 15,218
    I was thinking about it today, and it's not like in recent years (particularly) we didn't have people with disabilities as good guys: Professor X, Daredevil and Tyrion Lannister...
  • OmegaXOmegaX Singapore
    Posts: 39
    Hmm this is an interesting topic to think about...imo, all good villains have something that makes them unique. It mustn't be deformity or something physical, like Moriarty, who, despite being one of the most iconic villains ever, goes by his great intellect, not with him losing a limb or something =p

    However, this is the Bond franchise, and gradually one has to admit that most Bond villains have physical deformities, and one could consider it one of the most iconic elements of a Bond villain, and of Bond itself too. However, I do agree that most physical deformities have been used up by Bond villains, thus there is a problem of repeating them/parodying them, like SP, which I found out, has references/repeating plot lines from many previous Bond films.

    Another way to do it could be through unique behavioral patterns, like Kingsman, which features a villain who would throw up when he sees blood. No deformities whatsoever, but it still makes for a great villain who would be hard to forget.
  • Posts: 15,218
    But you do not need much of a deformity, if any at all, to have a unique, striking appearance. Moriarty in the Sherlock Holmes stories, if I am not mistaken, was depicted as a rather striking looking man, as if he oozed evil. Dracula also comes to my mind: human enough in appearance to interact with them and walk freely in London, but strange enough to induce fear. Same goes with villains in the Bond novels: not all are hunchbacks with deformities per se, but overall they have strange appearances. It is an accumulation of small things that as a whole give an unsettling picture.
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