Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801

    What worries me is the solo films for Spidey. Sony still have control
    Dude, they want MONEY, and they know Marvel knows how to make it.
    EEt's nothing personeel, just beezness.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    In scope and tension and consequence, Civil War wins easily. Both films deal with superhero conflicts, but while BvS was only a battle between Batman and Superman (it was only five minutes long, so maybe "scuffle" is a better word), Civil War is exactly that-a war! In BvS Batman and Superman punch each other a bit; okay, cool. In Civil War, all the heroes we've grown to love are picking sides and battling each other. Come on now, you can't tell me BvS is even close to as interesting at that.

    Give me a break! This:

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    Is not a war! In my opinion, Civil War will easily be a better film than BvS. I'm certain Civil War will beat BvS both critically and financially, but like DC's "Dawn of Justice" and JL, this film is happening too soon with not enough proper build up (or characters).

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    Do you know how trailers for films work? In case you don't know, for this particular movie there are things being teased, glimpsed at and completely omitted such as the involvement of the military, PMCs and actual super villains. The war between these characters extends far beyond the altercations between the individual characters in your little screen cap you posted.



    Yeah, I think you should go and take a seat.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    If this one doesn't pan out as well, they need to give Spider-Man a break for a while, I think.

    Holland as spider-man is already being likened to what RDJ is to Tony Stark/Iron Man and what Ledger was to the Joker. The Russo bros know what they're doing.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    If this one doesn't pan out as well, they need to give Spider-Man a break for a while, I think.

    Holland as spider-man is already being likened to what RDJ is to Tony Stark/Iron Man and what Ledger was to the Joker. The Russo bros know what they're doing.
    Oh yeah. As the cab driver said in Superman II, "This is gonna be GOOD!"
  • Posts: 9,847
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    If this one doesn't pan out as well, they need to give Spider-Man a break for a while, I think.

    Holland as spider-man is already being likened to what RDJ is to Tony Stark/Iron Man and what Ledger was to the Joker. The Russo bros know what they're doing.
    Then why did they give Tom Holland the worst Spider-Man suit ever on film?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited April 2016 Posts: 11,139
    Risico007 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    If this one doesn't pan out as well, they need to give Spider-Man a break for a while, I think.

    Holland as spider-man is already being likened to what RDJ is to Tony Stark/Iron Man and what Ledger was to the Joker. The Russo bros know what they're doing.
    Then why did they give Tom Holland the worst Spider-Man suit ever on film?

    Hhahahahaha You're grasping at straws, pal.

    The look of the costume isn't indicative of one's characterisation. When first pictures of Ledger were released, fans went apeshit and harped on about how he had the wrong look and now...the rest is history.

    What you're saying is like someone questioning Craig as being a good Bond because his suits look too tight.

    Secondly, the worst Spider-Man suit ever? Do you even know about spider-man's history? Holland's costume evokes the classic look of spider-man, with it borrowing from the styles of Ditko, Romita Sr and Alex Ross. He even has the tick-looking spider on his back, which is lifted straight from the comics and which no cinematic spidey costume has used. In your opinion it maybe the worst spidey suit but you are in a very exclusive minority.

    Anthony Russo: "We gave such a small impression of the character in that trailer, it’s something of a Rorschach test where people can pour as much of their Spidey anxieties out but when they see the movie they are going to get a very big picture of a very complete character that they have never seen before."
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited April 2016 Posts: 28,694
    Risico007 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    If this one doesn't pan out as well, they need to give Spider-Man a break for a while, I think.

    Holland as spider-man is already being likened to what RDJ is to Tony Stark/Iron Man and what Ledger was to the Joker. The Russo bros know what they're doing.
    Then why did they give Tom Holland the worst Spider-Man suit ever on film?

    Some of us dig it. And, word has it it'll change over time as Peter continues his crime-fighting career, which is cool. It looks the most comic book inspired yet in its style.

    Plus, we've had way, way worse:
    spider-man-1977-tv-movie-600x300.png

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  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited April 2016 Posts: 11,139
    I wasn't a big fan of Garfield's spidey costume in ASM1.

    Anyway, regarding Civil War and the confidence Disney/Marvel have in their movie...unlike the wool over the eyes tactics WB/DC employed...

    Steven Weintraub confirmed:
    Seeing CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR tonight. Social reviews embargoed till 11pm tonight. Actual review embargo lifts April 13th at 2pm PST.

    The film doesn't drop until the end of the month and the 6th of May in the US.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited April 2016 Posts: 40,976
    Anytime reviews are held for a movie such as BvS, or if the embargo is very close to the release date, I'm immediately worried.

    EDIT: Speaking of this 'Spider-Man' reboot, it's now confirmed that other Marvel characters will be appearing alongside him:

    http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/674769-kevin-feige-confirms-marvel-studios-characters-will-appear-in-spider-man-movie#/slide/1
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Anytime reviews are held for a movie such as BvS, or if the embargo is very close to the release date, I'm immediately worried.
    Yes me too. I noticed that and wondered what was up. Now I know.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
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  • edited April 2016 Posts: 4,813
    I'm curious as hell to see more of The Flash's costume

    1459261938253
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    What was the purpose of the flashback? Is it something comic-related or was everyone as clueless as I was?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @doubleoego, that's brilliant!

    I was watching a video recently collecting some of Batman's nastier kills from the films on YouTube, and one commenter, in reference to a kill from one of Burton's movies said something along the lines of, "that guy would've been all right if his mother's name was Martha."
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    What was the purpose of the flashback? Is it something comic-related or was everyone as clueless as I was?

    @Creasy47, it teases the Injustice arc where, after Lois is killed, Superman essentially loses it and creates a new world order where he's basically the totalitarian leader of the world. In that sequence, Batman is seen as Lois killer, at least from what I got from it. He was likely framed, though.

    Why I don't like this idea is because we have yet to see Superman be a good guy loved by the public (so why see him as a baddie again?), and second, this Lois isn't a woman that would make him snap if she died. She's pretty ditzy and often insufferable with some of the things she does, all encapsulated in the moment where she, for no reason whatsoever, tosses the kryptonite scepter into the water and almost inadvertently kills Superman. In many ways, she was doing Batman's job for him, and not to mention more effectively!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    @doubleoego, that's brilliant!

    I was watching a video recently collecting some of Batman's nastier kills from the films on YouTube, and one commenter, in reference to a kill from one of Burton's movies said something along the lines of, "that guy would've been all right if his mother's name was Martha."

    It's very unfortunate that how what was supposed to be a major turning and emotional point of BvS has become a joke.


  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Didn't we see him being loved by the people who witnessed him rescue the girl from the burning building, alongside the woman who seemed to grasp out at him in awe and belief that he was a true god when he rescued her from the tsunami/hurricane.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    doubleoego wrote: »
    @doubleoego, that's brilliant!

    I was watching a video recently collecting some of Batman's nastier kills from the films on YouTube, and one commenter, in reference to a kill from one of Burton's movies said something along the lines of, "that guy would've been all right if his mother's name was Martha."

    It's very unfortunate that how what was supposed to be a major turning and emotional point of BvS has become a joke.

    Yes, that is very unfortunate. Most people seem to misinterpret the scene and forget that Batman is essentially projecting his own tragedy and his mother's life onto Ma Kent. When he says "Martha won't die tonight," I did find it a little cheesy, to be honest. I think the scene would've worked better if it'd been played differently and Batman and Superman actually had a heart to heart moment where both concretely showed respect towards each other. Because at the end Batman acts like he and Supes were best buddies, and Bruce seems to forget that he was close to thrusting a spear into the guy's heart just hours prior.

    I wonder what Ma Kent would think about her savior if she knew that?
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Didn't we see him being loved by the people who witnessed him rescue the girl from the burning building, alongside the woman who seemed to grasp out at him in awe and belief that he was a true god when he rescued her from the tsunami/hurricane.

    There were instances of love and adoration there, yes, but I wanted to see a massive wave of public support for Superman. I thought this would occur during the Congress hearing, where Superman would defend his actions and show the people of America and the world that he was a force for good. But of course, we lost that scene which was hyped just as much as the "big fight" in the trailers and other promotional materials because of a twist that I saw coming a mile away. Bugger.
  • Posts: 4,813
    I think the only ones laughing at the Martha scene are the same ones who were critiquing the trailers all this time. The movie never stood a chance with them.
    I thought the scene was powerful- as did my fiancé, who wasn't nearly as excited at seeing the movie as I was.
  • Posts: 4,813
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    What was the purpose of the flashback? Is it something comic-related or was everyone as clueless as I was?
    @Creasy47, it teases the Injustice arc where, after Lois is killed, Superman essentially loses it and creates a new world order where he's basically the totalitarian leader of the world.
    The flashback itself does, yes-- but regarding The Flash, it is an homage to Crisis on Infinite Earths, where The Flash goes back in time to warn Batman! Now it's for a different reason of course, but I loved that they managed to put that in there!

    1649657-crisis-on-infinite-earths-2-batman-flash-176200.jpg


    And to all the Spider-Man and Civil War talk going on around here...

    did I walk into the wrong thread?
    eLw7m.gif

    ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Yes, Mr Travolta. You can discuss the DCU on the MCU thread.
  • Posts: 4,813
    What are your thoughts on this scene that got cut?

    http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/zack-snyder-cut-a-scene-from-batman-v-superman-for-being-too-dark-760
    joblo wrote:
    I think all the way – to me, from Metropolis to Smallville is probably just on the edge of his range of hearing. Also the clutter of the city makes it difficult as well.

    We had a scene that we cut from the movie where he tries to look for her when he finds out that Lex has got her. It was a slightly dark scene that we cut out because it sort of represented this dark side. Because when he was looking for his mom he heard all the cries of all the potential crimes going on in the city, you know when you look.

    I kind of like the idea that he’s taught himself not to look because if he looks it’s just neverending, right? You have to know when, as Superman, when to intervene and when not to. Or not when not to, you can’t be everywhere at once, literally you can’t be everywhere at once, so he has to be really selective in a weird way about where he chooses to interfere.
    Soooooo......

    Not only is there a range to Superman's super-hearing, but Superman turns off what he hears and when, so that he's not saving people all the time, because that would just be neverending...??

    I'll leave that one to you to debate, but I thought a lot of that was really the essence of who Superman is... or rather, was... Sounds like darkness was the least of the problems such a scenario would create

    It sort of reminds me of that scene in Ben Affleck's Daredevil-- when he was *just* finally getting to go to sleep and heard a woman needing help. He was like, 'nope, already in bed.' lol

    The problem though.... Snyder mentions it would be neverending... yet that's exactly what Superman's about: "Neverending battle for Truth, Justice, and the American Way"!

    I figure it's good they cut it.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Yes, it's such a Superman thing to do to ignore cries for help. Just like he's always going on in the comics about how being a good guy is impossible and that he has to embrace the darkness. Oh, wait..

    Is it just me, or does anybody else hear an 11 or 12 year old's voice when reading Snyder's statements? All his answers sound like they were prepared and delivered by somebody from the age of cellphone obsessive culture who hasn't even hit puberty yet.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Well, I just ran out to buy a used copy of Superman Returns. I wasn't thrilled with it when I saw it in the theatre, but I didn't hate it either. I thought Singer & Routh nailed the character, I just wasn't loving the story all that much. Now I realize it's probably the best post-Reeve flick we'll get for the foreseeable future so I'm ready to revisit it again.

    I'll rent BvS. 8-|
  • Artemis81Artemis81 In Christmas Land
    Posts: 543
    Just catching up from prior pages...
    I'm not sure who is to blame really. Maybe Snyder/Goyer/Terrio for completely failing the DC characters (which was already clear with MoS). Maybe the people in charge at Warner/DC for not seeing and hearing the alarm signs after MoS.
    I don't think MoS is as bad as you say. I enjoyed a lot more than BvS because it flowed better, I like the characters and we got to see Superman in some good action. I don't think Snyder deserves all the blame (I think he did fine with MoS, and 300), but more to the screenwriters, the editor, and the person who decided to cram a bunch of things in one movie. They should have focused on creating an awesome movie than thinking about catching up.
    The only good thing out of all this mess is Batfleck.
    Unfortunately, this is what I was dreading. Nothing against Affleck as Batman, he did good, but I remember talking to my cousin when they had announce BvS, and telling him I was afraid that Batman would overshadow Superman in the film, and he did. Everyone's been talking about Batman... he needs a solo film.... etc. Nothing on Superman :(.
    I'm even certain that at least the Superman franchise will be dead after 2017.
    I heard some people saying this and as a Superman fan, I really hope this doesn't happen. I really want to see more solo Superman films. MoS, I thought it as a Batman Begins, a movie that I liked, but not loved, but would lead to something better in the sequel. As much as I didn't want Lex Luthor as the villain for MoS 2, the events at the end of MoS open up the perfect opportunity to bring in the Lex who thinks Superman is a threat to human kind, can't be trusted and make the general public question him. There were also some rumors about bringing Brainiac in which I would have loved! Now it's all been convoluted by this film.
    It's very unfortunate that how what was supposed to be a major turning and emotional point of BvS has become a joke.
    *sigh* I didn't like that scene, too cheesy. I remember when I walked out of the theater someone said "Your mother's name Martha. Mine too. We're cool now!" in a mocking tone. It was just stupid. It's almost out of some those little kids films.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Superman Returns was much like Batman Returns in that it's not he way I personally would have gone with either film, but there was heart in both, and that's sadly lacking in today's DC CGI-fest junk.
    I pray the WW film will have a better feel for human feeling.
  • Posts: 12,474
    I like Batman Returns a lot. Quite enjoyed both Burton and Nolan's take on Batman.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Superman Returns was much like Batman Returns in that it's not he way I personally would have gone with either film, but there was heart in both, and that's sadly lacking in today's DC CGI-fest junk.
    I pray the WW film will have a better feel for human feeling.

    @chrisisall, I think WW will impress you. Gal's WW was the only thing about BvS that I found to be consistently good, and I think that will carry into her solo film too.

    From the small footage we've seen, she looks fantastic. There's one scene they teased where Diana is trying on glasses to look more human, and she gives a little smile that is both endearing and adorable in many ways. Such a small moment like that, or a little mannerism gives so much weight and layers to her character. It'll be interesting to see a goddess trying to fit in with humans in the film. Ironically, this goddess will likely give you the human feeling you want back in the DC films.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Superman Returns was much like Batman Returns in that it's not he way I personally would have gone with either film, but there was heart in both, and that's sadly lacking in today's DC CGI-fest junk.
    I pray the WW film will have a better feel for human feeling.

    @chrisisall, I think WW will impress you. Gal's WW was the only thing about BvS that I found to be consistently good, and I think that will carry into her solo film too.

    From the small footage we've seen, she looks fantastic. There's one scene they teased where Diana is trying on glasses to look more human, and she gives a little smile that is both endearing and adorable in many ways. Such a small moment like that, or a little mannerism gives so much weight and layers to her character. It'll be interesting to see a goddess trying to fit in with humans in the film. Ironically, this goddess will likely give you the human feeling you want back in the DC films.

    Thanks! That's reassuring! :-c
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited April 2016 Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Superman Returns was much like Batman Returns in that it's not he way I personally would have gone with either film, but there was heart in both, and that's sadly lacking in today's DC CGI-fest junk.
    I pray the WW film will have a better feel for human feeling.

    @chrisisall, I think WW will impress you. Gal's WW was the only thing about BvS that I found to be consistently good, and I think that will carry into her solo film too.

    From the small footage we've seen, she looks fantastic. There's one scene they teased where Diana is trying on glasses to look more human, and she gives a little smile that is both endearing and adorable in many ways. Such a small moment like that, or a little mannerism gives so much weight and layers to her character. It'll be interesting to see a goddess trying to fit in with humans in the film. Ironically, this goddess will likely give you the human feeling you want back in the DC films.

    Thanks! That's reassuring! :-c

    @chrisisall, while I think Batman and Superman suffered some character assassination, WW was well done here, I think. There's this great moment, this thing that she does in the last act of the film that made me smile, even after my faith in the film had died by that point.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    'Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice' Will Likely Earn Less Profit Than 'Man Of Steel'

    Oh, boy. As much as Warner Bros. grits their teeth in the face of savage reviews and withering box office for "Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice," if it's not a failure, then the film is certainly on its way to being a disappointment. The picture which cost at least $250 million (some estimates put that figure around $300 million, not including marketing and promotion) was supposed to be a billion dollar blockbuster, which would turn a healthy profit for the studio once it hit that figure. Right now, that mark looks unlikely, and it's going to affect the bottom line in an embarrassing way.

    Bloomberg got SNL Kagan analyst Wade Holden to do some number crunching, and counting home video and merchandising revenue, "Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice" will wind up earning $278 million in profit for the studio, a bit below the $300 million in profit "Man In Steel" turned around.

    Bear in mind, "Man Of Steel" cost less ($225 million) and even earned less at the worldwide box office ($668 million), and yet, it comes out as the movie that earned more green. It probably doesn't need to be stressed, but when you make a movie featuring two of the biggest superheroes ever known, you expect it's going to do massive numbers, not scraping by to hopefully catchup with the same profit potential as its predecessor. To match "Man Of Steel" in terms of profits, 'Dawn Of Justice' will need to earn $1.15 billion worldwide, but that's simply not going to happen.
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