Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I am still at a loss to understand why people expected BvS to be anything more than it was.

    The only people who have been able to make anything out of DC's properties so far have been Nolan, Donner and Burton. None were involved in this film, and the director who was has a poor track record with this sort of thing.

    So honestly, I think some folks had too high expectations. It was exactly what I thought it would be, which is mediocre at best, but entertaining enough.

    Not to be taken too seriously.
  • Posts: 9,846
    btw Affleck and Johns have COMPLETE CONTROL over the solo batman film so can we move on our discussion :D plus Bondjames you will have to add Affleck to that list soon.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I agree @Risico007. I have high expectations for the Batman solo film and am quite certain it will be a killer. As I said earlier on this thread, they might as well call it 'Batman Resurrection' or 'Redemption' because it has an RT rating of 'FRESH' already baked in. Guarantee it, because Affleck is a Hollywood golden boy.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree @Risico007. I have high expectations for the Batman solo film and am quite certain it will be a killer. As I said earlier on this thread, they might as well call it 'Batman Resurrection' or 'Redemption' because it has an RT rating of 'FRESH' already baked in. Guarantee it, because Affleck is a Hollywood golden boy.

    Also Affleck has an Academy Award for screenplay !!
    And for producer (Argo).
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    bondjames wrote: »
    I am still at a loss to understand why people expected BvS to be anything more than it was.

    The only people who have been able to make anything out of DC's properties so far have been Nolan, Donner and Burton. None were involved in this film, and the director who was has a poor track record with this sort of thing.

    So honestly, I think some folks had too high expectations. It was exactly what I thought it would be, which is mediocre at best, but entertaining enough.

    Not to be taken too seriously.
    Nolan was involved though. But yeah... there's a lot of "it's Batman, superman and wonder woman in ONE movie fcs!" as if that means anything to people who are not into DC. These properties exist outside of the Marvel megahype.

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @bondjames
    People including DC fan(boys) expected a good movie.
    And that they didn't get. It's that simple.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @DarthDimi, I wasn't aware of Nolan's involvement on BvS, but now realize that he executive produced it, although was quite hands off. Thanks for letting me know.

    @BondJasonBond006, I understand. It's just that I really think expecting a 'good movie' (which of course is in the eye of the beholder) from the same team that gave us MoS may have been too much to ask for. I don't know about you, but I had a pretty poor opinion of MoS and Cavill's interpretation of both Supes and Kent (I've only seen it once - and that was more than enough - he & his universe did absolutely nothing for me).

    BvS was exactly what I expected. Enjoyable enough in the theatre but pretty forgettable afterwards. It really was there to serve as an early intro to Bat & WW, and it did that bit reasonably well imho. Given how much air time Batman had in this film it's clear that DC knew that the Bat character was the 'anchor', as their most famous property, even if in a brand new incarnation. I still think they did a good job of packing in so many characters in one film and straddling two universes (Metropolis & Gotham).
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @bondjames
    I didn't like MoS, although being a fan of Synder (I love 300, Watchmen and Sucker Punch) I found Snyder's "vision" of Superman wrong.
    Still, I believed that the powers at DC/Warner would see to it that Snyder would give BvS some Watchmen treatment. As a DC fan I stayed positive and couldn't imagine "them" failing that hard.

    Needless to say, I'm very depressed that the same people now do the Justice League film.
    I'm such a huge JL/Batman fan, it really hurts what is happening now.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I very much dug MoS and Cavill, so forgive me for going into this movie thinking that 1) the events/consequences of the film's ending would be dealt with (as Snyder promised) and 2) that Cavill would get some meaty stuff to work with to develop his Superman.

    The chances of the first blew up with the Congressional building, as does the film's care for that plot line, and number two was the biggest disappointment of all.

    I don't know who Cavill was playing in this movie, but Superman he was not. Which is a shame, because he was perfect in MoS, a great mix of charming, innocent, caring, endearing, and brave. THAT'S SUPERMAN, not a man who bends to public hatred, lets Joker Riddler Lex use him like a fool or someone who straight up calls himself a bad guy. Cavill has what it takes to really make Superman a character as loved as Evans' Cap, but they just don't let him do anything in this film beyond punching and kicking; there's no heart to Superman here, the man with the biggest heart of all. For crying out loud, the man only says 43 lines in the whole movie, and one of those is a shout. Poor 'ol Henry never had a chance.
  • Artemis81Artemis81 In Christmas Land
    Posts: 543
    ^One of the issues that had was that Superman wasn't given much to do. The ideas to explore the character more were there but were cut short (the Congress hearing you mentioned, the talk with Lois at the start).
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    I am still at a loss to understand why people expected BvS to be anything more than it was.

    The only people who have been able to make anything out of DC's properties so far have been Nolan, Donner and Burton. None were involved in this film, and the director who was has a poor track record with this sort of thing.

    So honestly, I think some folks had too high expectations. It was exactly what I thought it would be, which is mediocre at best, but entertaining enough.

    Not to be taken too seriously.

    Probably the most sensible post on the whole thread.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I am still at a loss to understand why people expected BvS to be anything more than it was.

    The only people who have been able to make anything out of DC's properties so far have been Nolan, Donner and Burton. None were involved in this film, and the director who was has a poor track record with this sort of thing.

    So honestly, I think some folks had too high expectations. It was exactly what I thought it would be, which is mediocre at best, but entertaining enough.

    Not to be taken too seriously.

    Probably the most sensible post on the whole thread.

    You're forgetting the very nature of fandom, however. Many here, myself included, grew up with these heroes and they were our main role models that we learned and lived through, and still are in many cases. So when a series of films is coming that promises to give us all of them on the big screen, it's impossible not to carry some expectations for that. And because we love and understand these characters better than anyone else, we are quickest to spot when things don't add up or when we're being sold something artificial and hokey. Why do you think there's such a massive fan backlash?

    And once again, forgive all of us for daring to look forward to something. Our bad.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    As I said earlier, I'm a big fan of Batman, but not really of Superman. My brother in law however, is. I went to see MoS with him and my nephews (who were quite young at the time).

    I recall he was very disappointed with the film, because he felt the mayhem and destruction in the end was excessive, and not something that he expected in a Superman film, particularly one that he had 'sold' to his kids, and when my sister is quite strict regarding what they can watch. Moreover, he found it dreary and morose, and again a far cry from his expectations given his view on the character. I understood where he was coming from, and have heard similar criticism from other 'Superman fans' since then.

    So when they opened BvS by focusing on Wayne's disgust with the massive destruction that took place during the finale of MoS, I could relate to his frustration, but more from a character standpoint.

    Also, when the reimagined Batman character did things that were somewhat distinct from what we saw in the Nolan films it was not a surprise to me, given what had come before in MoS. The characters have gotten progressively darker with time on film/tv (except for a brief respite during the Schumacher years).

    The comics have also changed over the years, and one's expectations are going to be impacted by what era one is comfortable and familiar with. Some are darker than others.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    May this thread serve as a perfect example of why the anti-SP voiced their concerns and complaints 1,000x over, as well as why the anti-SF crowd voiced their issues and disgust time and time again.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    May this thread serve as a perfect example of why the anti-SP voiced their concerns and complaints 1,000x over, as well as why the anti-SF crowd voiced their issues and disgust time and time again.

    This is one thread while the anti SP or anti SF voice their complaints on dozens of threads.
    Also BvS is generally seen as a failure, SF or SP not.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    May this thread serve as a perfect example of why the anti-SP voiced their concerns and complaints 1,000x over, as well as why the anti-SF crowd voiced their issues and disgust time and time again.

    This is one thread while the anti SP or anti SF voice their complaints on dozens of threads.
    Also BvS is generally seen as a failure, SF or SP not.
    However, as I said earlier, BvS decimated MoS globally and in North America at the box office.

    SP did extremely poorly relative to SF in the largest & most influential market of all, namely the US. Moreover, the reviews overall were quite poor relative to the prior film.

    The number of threads bitching about the new film is just a result of this being a Bond forum first and foremost, as opposed to a DC universe forum.

    So it's all a matter of perspective imho.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    May this thread serve as a perfect example of why the anti-SP voiced their concerns and complaints 1,000x over, as well as why the anti-SF crowd voiced their issues and disgust time and time again.

    This is one thread while the anti SP or anti SF voice their complaints on dozens of threads.
    Also BvS is generally seen as a failure, SF or SP not.
    However, as I said earlier, BvS decimated MoS globally and in North America at the box office.

    SP did extremely poorly relative to SF in the largest & most influential market of all, namely the US. Moreover, the reviews overall were quite poor relative to the prior film.

    The number of threads bitching about the new film is just a result of this being a Bond forum first and foremost, as opposed to a DC universe forum.

    So it's all a matter of perspective imho.

    Sure, SP has considerably less favourable critics ratings but still good ones, while BvS is on 27% RT and SP on 64%. Metacritic is 60 for SP and 44 for BvS.

    I think to criticise and continue to complain about BvS is well justified. After all a lot, a lot of people were very disappointed with BvS.
    And for your BO comparison. While SP failed only in the US and still was very profitable, BvS only didn't fail in the US and barley broke even. Just saying, whatever that means can be debated.

    Imagine SP would have gotten those ratings and would have had a BO of 600 million worldwide. What do you think would happen on fan forums?
  • I remember reading Cinemascore for the young viewers of BvS was A... And much less for older viewers.

    About SP comparison with BvS, I'm afraid it's not far fetched. I feel like a third Mendes Bond movie could have become the Bond movie the audience would have loved to hate.


  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Sure, SP has considerably less favourable critics ratings but still good ones, while BvS is on 27% RT and SP on 64%. Metacritic is 60 for SP and 44 for BvS.

    I recently discovered that the RT percentage for the Star Wars Holiday Special is higher than BvS.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I think to criticise and continue to complain about BvS is well justified. After all a lot, a lot of people were very disappointed with BvS.
    And for your BO comparison. While SP failed only in the US and still was very profitable, BvS only didn't fail in the US and barley broke even. Just saying, whatever that means can be debated.

    Imagine SP would have gotten those ratings and would have had a BO of 600 million worldwide. What do you think would happen on fan forums?
    I don't have a problem with people criticizing BvS. In fact, I welcome it. These forums are meant for discussion and not everything can be liked.

    I was just trying to understand it, as a person who wasn't all that upset by BvS. As I said, it was as I expected it to be. No one was more disappointed than me when Nolan hung it up, because I really loved his universe and creation. I knew from the beginning that the new Bat wouldn't meet my expectations (like MoS did not) and I think that helped me to accept it.

    So I'm completely ok with people criticizing BvS. I am also ok with people criticizing SP. If anything, I have a problem with those who lambast those who criticize it. These forums are meant for discussion and venting. So it's all good imho.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    May this thread serve as a perfect example of why the anti-SP voiced their concerns and complaints 1,000x over, as well as why the anti-SF crowd voiced their issues and disgust time and time again.

    This is one thread while the anti SP or anti SF voice their complaints on dozens of threads.
    Also BvS is generally seen as a failure, SF or SP not.

    I see this whining on at least four, five different threads ad infinitum. There are just three of you who do it every chance you get, but it seems like a whole armada.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    bondjames wrote: »
    So I'm completely ok with people criticizing BvS. I am also ok with people criticizing SP.
    Criticizing the brilliant & subtle near perfection that is SPECTRE merely makes one look foolish.


    ;)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    May this thread serve as a perfect example of why the anti-SP voiced their concerns and complaints 1,000x over, as well as why the anti-SF crowd voiced their issues and disgust time and time again.

    This is one thread while the anti SP or anti SF voice their complaints on dozens of threads.
    Also BvS is generally seen as a failure, SF or SP not.

    I see this whining on at least four, five different threads ad infinitum. There are just three of you who do it every chance you get, but it seems like a whole armada.

    I count four.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    May this thread serve as a perfect example of why the anti-SP voiced their concerns and complaints 1,000x over, as well as why the anti-SF crowd voiced their issues and disgust time and time again.

    This is one thread while the anti SP or anti SF voice their complaints on dozens of threads.
    Also BvS is generally seen as a failure, SF or SP not.

    I see this whining on at least four, five different threads ad infinitum. There are just three of you who do it every chance you get, but it seems like a whole armada.

    I count four.

    Then you can form a band.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited April 2016 Posts: 40,968
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    May this thread serve as a perfect example of why the anti-SP voiced their concerns and complaints 1,000x over, as well as why the anti-SF crowd voiced their issues and disgust time and time again.

    This is one thread while the anti SP or anti SF voice their complaints on dozens of threads.
    Also BvS is generally seen as a failure, SF or SP not.

    It's not about the amount of threads, though, it's about the amount of negativity. The reason we have numerous threads for a Bond movie once it's released is, well, we're first and foremost a Bond forum. I meant nothing negative about the post, it was simply me pointing out that there is a surprising amount of content and lengthy replies to this thread, mostly from those who absolutely loathed the movie. This is why so many people complain in so many separate threads when they don't like the latest Bond movie: fandom. Insane, passionate fandom.
  • Posts: 9,846
    http://batman-news.com/2016/05/01/batman-villain-cameos/

    If this is true my theory is the next film is Batman: Hush and if that is true Doubleego to quote Sherlock Holmes "are you sure you want to play this game I am afraid you might loose" because hall H will be talking only about one thing and that is Batman: Hush
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Risico007 wrote: »
    http://batman-news.com/2016/05/01/batman-villain-cameos/

    If this is true my theory is the next film is Batman: Hush and if that is true Doubleego to quote Sherlock Holmes "are you sure you want to play this game I am afraid you might loose" because hall H will be talking only about one thing and that is Batman: Hush

    Hush is quite honestly an iffy route to go, as the story is a mess predicated upon only what heroes and villains Jim Lee thought he wanted to draw, from which Loeb wrestled out a story. If the DC/Warner team can't make a story around Batman fighting Superman work, I don't have much hope for them recreating any other stories, especially only as unnecessarily twisty as that one.

    If they adapted Hush, I'd hope they kept the core friendship and betrayal of Tommy and Bruce, then reworked everything else. As cool as it would be to see Joker, Harley, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Croc, Riddler, Two-Face and more in the same film, we all know it'd be a mess and Warner are already too happy to pack these films with more characters than they should have. Not to mention the casting nightmare it'd be. That's a lot of characters to get actors for!

    There's not any way to do a true adaptation of Hush on the big screen because there's too many elements going on in that book. Too many heroes, too many villains, too much everything. I'd much rather see the WB Animation team adapt it, since they are consistently putting out better content than the live-action division.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
  • Posts: 9,846
    What words?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Risico007 wrote: »
    What words?

    I commented before that I don't know if Warner and DC should pack a Batman film with a ton of villains, then the article I read not twenty minutes after that said that apparently that's exactly what Ben and Geoff Johns want to do, in order to make the "definitive" Batman movie. Hence why I may, in the future, eat my words.
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