Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

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  • Posts: 4,813
    Interesting, you loved MoS but not Bvs? I'd love to hear more on that; I kind of thought it felt like a good continuation, story and quality wise!

    If I had anything negative to say it would be this: it's supposed to be fairly early in the whole Superman story, yet he already
    dies at the hands of Doomsday
    , and his first encounter with Bats is taken straight from Dark Knight Returns (which in the comic, happens after they've known each other for YEARS). So it felt like the sequel grabbed tidbits from 50+ years worth of comic books like they were on a shopping spree.
    Also Superman could have smiled more ;)

    But that's about it! I loved it. It felt like Batman & Superman for BIG kids
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    That's how I was with MoS: no interest, don't like Superman, don't really care for it, trailers did nothing to impress me, figured it'd be garbage, and I went with my girlfriend at the time on opening night and loved it.
    @Creasy47, I didn't love Superman: The Movie, I worshiped it. I saw it maybe 40 times during it's run. Towards the end I was driving 30 miles to see it in rural dollar theatres. Then I bought the 40 minute two reel super 8 sound version to keep me from withdrawal until Superman II came out.

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Not to this extent.

    Terminator Genisys did.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Master_Dahark, I'm graduating from college this April, so I'll have a pretty packed and busy schedule from here on out. I don't know if I'll make it back to see it once more. The only reasons I have to return are to reevaluate Ben's Batman (if I can) and see Gal's Wonder Woman, the only truly consistent thing I liked about the film beside Irons' Alfred.

    I don't know how much a second viewing will really help me, either. I could get used to Batman being characterized the way he is, I guess, but there's still so many glaring story problems with this movie on every level that even if he acted more like even Bale's Batman I'd still have such a hard time enjoying it. So many things just don't add up, and I'd have to be a fool not to see the glaring issues in logic and characterization.

    Some have said this film is getting overly criticized, but folks, this is what we do. We love these characters, so in effect, we are more critical than anyone. It's why the Craig Bond films of recent memory were so heavily analyzed; we look deep into what we love most, especially if we dislike a film because it festers in our brains and the feeling of disappointment we get from something we heavily anticipated can register to us like a knife to the heart. It's just the way it is.

    One thing that I am seeing pop up consistently, though, is this: Ben is amazing. While I don't like the Batman he was given, I agree that he really shined and made all his dissenters look like fools here. I've heard many people who disliked this film say things along the lines of, "The one thing I didn't think I'd like about this film going in (Ben) was the only thing I ended up liking as I left," or "I miss the days when Affleck's casting was the only thing I was worried about with this film." He got himself a victory here, for the most part. Now they just need to give him more interesting things to do.

    Going forward, more focus needs to be spent on proper characterization in these films, and less on packing everything into each movie to tease future efforts. So much of this movie is prepping for JL and beyond that it loses an identity of its own. Another big issue is how many storylines from the comics DC and Warner are packing in that would have carried great weight if developed later on, the
    Death of Superman
    being the biggie this time. Now we've even got Injustice being teased, even though we haven't gotten to see Superman be a good guy in the eyes of the public yet, and a whole mess of roads they could take with the New Gods. Why we needed to see all these hints, and why they popped up at so many random moments that were jarring to watch, is beyond me.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    There was so much that didn't make sense...but totally didn't need to be in the movie at all at the same time. For instance, this whole side story about Clark Kent doing this football story and not the one he really wants to run...you mean to tell me this place doesn't have a sports crew that writes these articles? They just hand pick random employees to write them? Stupid moments like that - totally unnecessary to the story - helped take me out of the inevitability that was that final, awfully paced CG fight scene.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801

    :)) Yeah, pretty funny.
    But it's still the finest superhero movie ever made. \m/
  • edited April 2016 Posts: 6,432
    I agree it is classic, trying to get link for Keatons Batman Honest trailer. Though phone keeps freezing. That's even funnier and Batman kills alot lol.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I just got back from seeing a matinee showing of BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE. Let me start by reiterating that I am a lifelong fan of these characters, going back 50 years. They were my first toys, my first books, my first fantasies, and I was even watching the serials from the 1940s on an 8 mm. home projector before the 1966 television series premiered. My passion for them went forward with me throughout life, but at a young age I also researched and studied the history that had taken Batman and Superman form conception to my discovery of them. Because of the importance that the DC icons (including Aquaman and the other big ones) have had in my life, I am alway wary when they are portrayed in other media. I believe these characters work best in the comic book format, and that's where I prefer they stay. For every home-run (SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE and, to a lesser extent, BATMAN BEGINS) there are several dozen attempts that not only fail, but begin to cheapen the over all luster of my childhood heroes.

    I also grew up a film lover, and I mean good, textured meaningful cinema, not popcorn trash. James Bond has always gotten a pass from me, because like Batman, it has been a part of my life from the start. But since I first discovered Bond through the EON films, I see the character through that prism; I am forgiving in a sentimental way that I would never be with any other motion pictures (okay, Godzilla and Billy Jack, too). As much as I loved the Donner Superman film in 1978, I had no desire to see anymore comic book superhero films.

    All these years later, we finally get the first meeting of Batman and Superman (and Wonder Woman!) on the big screen. I k new that I was going to hate this movie. Very preview I saw looked awful. Any serious critic that I read and take seriously, such as The New York Times' A.O. Scott, completely trashed it. Even those I know who tend to embrace any superhero film were tepid in their assessments. Personally, I have burned out on these super hero films years ago. On top of all that, I have consistently disliked Snyder's work. I find it oppressive and silly in his attempt at gravitas. While I liked parts of MAN OF STEEL, the lack of any sustained brightness in tone and the endless CGI battles that were nothing but dust and noise were a big turn off. Not my cup of tea.

    The upshot is that I was debating not even seeing this one. Why vote with my dollars for a film that was, by all indications, going to push these characters further from the shining knights of my youth. But, I had a hole in my schedule today and decided to give it a chance. Surprisingly, I actually liked it. I didn't love it, but I certainly enjoyed myself, more than just a little. The cast was strong all around. Jeremy Irons was excellent as Alfred, as has been every actor who I have ever seen interpret the character. Affleck was fine. Eisenberg probably gave the weakest performance of all of the key characters, a tad over the top, but I was still able to hang in there with him. Cavill is a passable Clark Kent and Superman, but I would much rather he was the happy, optimistic hero that existed for many decades. As in MOS, I don't really care for Amy Adams as Lois Lane, either physically or in her in take on the star reporter. Of course I caught all of the homages to a plethora classic DC comics. Though fodder for fans, often such bits are used lazily in lieu of actually developing an interesting script and storyline (see SPECTRE), but it wasn't too obtrusive in the is instance.

    Of course, not all was perfect, or even close. There were some scenes that dragged and seemed to serve no purpose but to fill an overly long runtime (Clark's vision at the pole is a prime example). I absolutely hated the final battle between The Big Three and Doomsday. Like MOS: horrible CGI, poor editing and grossly amateur camera work. It is in those segments (this goes for the Marvel films to), where my eyes glaze over and my mind sort of shuts down. But, on the other hand, it didn't last anywhere near as long as the final battle in MOS, and wasn't quite as ridiculous. Also, again, the lack of humor and warmth bothered me. Why is Marvel (and I was a diehard DC kid!) able to synthesize characterization, action and humor so, apparently, effortlessly? You take Doomsday out of this picture (he looked plastic and out of place), and the ensuing carnage, and I would have had very little to complain about.

    In the end, I surprised myself. I left the theater happy, after entering it with a huge negative attitude.

    @Birdleson, great review, sir! Truly well explained and well-written (if I can even judge that) and in a way kind of heart-warming too. ;-) I'm glad someone like yourself doesn't just beat up the mentally challenged kid in school but instead aims for a rational and balanced appreciation of the film. :-)
  • Posts: 6,432
    https://m.youtube.mp/watch?v=Gkebn0-iG3k

    Batman 89 Honest Trailer.

    @chrisisall I forgot about the goon being burnt alive. Lol
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    https://m.youtube.mp/watch?v=Gkebn0-iG3k

    Batman 89 Honest Trailer.

    @chrisisall I forgot about the goon being burnt alive. Lol
    Kill by the fire, die by the fire I always say.
    :))
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Thank you, @DarthDimi .
    He characterized the film as the mentally challenged kid in the school...
    ;))
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Thank you, @DarthDimi .
    He characterized the film as the mentally challenged kid in the school...
    ;))

    Clumsy of me. What I meant was that there are obvious flaws in the film. Those I referred to as mentally challenged kids in school it's too easy to pick on. :)
  • edited April 2016 Posts: 6,432
    There are many enjoyable films that are fundamentally flawed. Even some of the greatest films ever made will have there critics. As I said the other day, you either buy into something or you don't. If you do buy into what's been presented you can enjoy the ride and excuse any flaws.

    @chrisisall Think I am due a rewatch of Burtons Batman, even Returns has it plus points. Batmans expression when he turns to see the penguins with rockets on there backs is fantastic. BvS is getting stick, though by nature comic book film are all crazy.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Thank you, @DarthDimi .
    He characterized the film as the mentally challenged kid in the school...
    ;))

    Clumsy of me. What I meant was that there are obvious flaws in the film. Those I referred to as mentally challenged kids in school it's too easy to pick on. :)
    No, we all got that. I'm clumsy-er that you ever are, and this IS my first language!
    =))
  • Artemis81Artemis81 In Christmas Land
    edited April 2016 Posts: 543
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    There was so much that didn't make sense...but totally didn't need to be in the movie at all at the same time. For instance, this whole side story about Clark Kent doing this football story and not the one he really wants to run...you mean to tell me this place doesn't have a sports crew that writes these articles? They just hand pick random employees to write them? Stupid moments like that - totally unnecessary to the story - helped take me out of the inevitability that was that final, awfully paced CG fight scene.
    I felt that if Clark wanted to prove to Perry that he could do better than what he was given, he should have to gone out of his way to investigate the Batman story. Make Clark do some reporting stuff rather than just Lois who I think should have had less screen time.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    @chrisisall Think I am due a rewatch of Burtons Batman, even Returns has it plus points. Batmans expression when he turns to see the penguins with rockets on there backs is fantastic.
    Keaton's Batman just had this insanely noble yet barely under control quality to him. As if you HAD to be on the edge of losing it to do what he does. It was delicious IMHO.
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    Artemis81 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    There was so much that didn't make sense...but totally didn't need to be in the movie at all at the same time. For instance, this whole side story about Clark Kent doing this football story and not the one he really wants to run...you mean to tell me this place doesn't have a sports crew that writes these articles? They just hand pick random employees to write them? Stupid moments like that - totally unnecessary to the story - helped take me out of the inevitability that was that final, awfully paced CG fight scene.
    I felt that if Clark wanted to prove to Perry that he could do better than what he was given, he should have to gone out of his way to investigate the Batman story. Make Clark do some reporting stuff rather than just Lois who I think should have had less screen time.

    I may be wrong, but I think there is a deleted scene(s) where he does just this. It'll likely be part of the Ultimate Edition Blu-ray.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote: »
    @chrisisall Think I am due a rewatch of Burtons Batman, even Returns has it plus points. Batmans expression when he turns to see the penguins with rockets on there backs is fantastic.
    Keaton's Batman just had this insanely noble yet barely under control quality to him. As if you HAD to be on the edge of losing it to do what he does. It was delicious IMHO.

    As weird as it is, I love the look he gives when he sees the penguins with the rockets on their backs. You can just read the words, "Yep, this is my life," all over his face there.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    As weird as it is, I love the look he gives when he sees the penguins with the rockets on their backs. You can just read the words, "Yep, this is my life," all over his face there.

    He's Batman. ;)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Can someone who is more in tune with the comic book world tell me:
    Who was the final person in the videos of the other JL (I'm assuming) members? The one with the bad-but-good guy from 'Terminator 2' as a scientist, and there was a guy up against a wall forming into something I believe.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Keaton was a great Batman, I totally agree. And if Warner hadn't been stupid in '92, Keaton could have Batman in some more films. But the execs acted up, Burton left, Keaten and Elfman left with him. A tragic story. And I'm not even a fan of Burton's style. But Keaton was superb. Even wearing the cape and cowl, he could be expressive and amusing. Still, to this day, my favourite Batman and Bruce Wayne (which is not the same thing)!
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    edited April 2016 Posts: 1,257
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Can someone who is more in tune with the comic book world tell me:
    Who was the final person in the videos of the other JL (I'm assuming) members? The one with the bad-but-good guy from 'Terminator 2' as a scientist, and there was a guy up against a wall forming into something I believe.
  • I'm just jumping straight into this conversation without reading previous comments. I just want to say that I loved the film. Batman is if you ask me the second coolest character after 007 in the world. Superman I hate on the other hand, can't stand him at all...
  • Artemis81Artemis81 In Christmas Land
    edited April 2016 Posts: 543
    I may be wrong, but I think there is a deleted scene(s) where he does just this. It'll likely be part of the Ultimate Edition Blu-ray.
    *sigh* Why not include it in the movie? Again could have cut down some of Lois stuff (or other stuff) and make it more between Clark vs Batman. Have it slowly built up between them that leads to that final fight.
  • Posts: 6,432


    BvS Movie fight special, just watching whilst at work. Fun watch some good discussion on the movie.
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    Artemis81 wrote: »
    I may be wrong, but I think there is a deleted scene(s) where he does just this. It'll likely be part of the Ultimate Edition Blu-ray.
    *sigh* Why not include it in the movie? Again could have cut down some of Lois stuff (or other stuff) and make it more between Clark vs Batman. Have it slowly built up between them that leads to that final fight.


    Indeed, the first half of the film should been to flesh out the characters and build up the their motivations. Hell, the film should have simply been Batman v Superman. The whole Dawn of Justice portion could have been saved for another time or another film. There was just too much going on. There were too many story lines and comic book adaptations stuffed into one film which caused other really important aspects to fall by the wayside.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    There were too many story lines and comic book adaptations stuffed into one film which caused other really important aspects to fall by the wayside.

    The most important things left by the wayside were Superman's curl, bright coloured costume & sense of humour & hope.
    Thanks for not getting the character, Zack. 8-|
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I too missed a little bit of humour, and the CGI Doomsday wasn t that well executed. Other than that, and the casting of Luthor, the film was pretty great in my book.
  • Posts: 1,107
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