Sebastian Faulks ridicules 'distasteful' Bond film 'Skyfall'

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  • edited August 2013 Posts: 6,396
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    "logicalwise" - Spot the irony anyone?
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    It is quite fascinating watching you guys applaud each other for your lack of an ethical and moral compass. Somehow reminds me of all those shoulder clapping a few month ago for ensuring each other, that SFs Story isn't a complete Desaster logicalwise.

    Almost as fascinating as you being unable to grasp that Bond is just fantasy. It is fictional, nothing more nothing less. You keep banging on and on about 'ethics' as though we're discussing this issue as though it's based in reality.

    Every Bond Film before was Fantasy too, but until SF he managed to be a Hero and not a sociopath!

    Regarding the "logicalwise" I repeat my offer from a few month ago. Just show me ANYTHING in SF that really makes Sense after the Point Bond leaves the Hotel in Istanbul. And please spare me nonarguments like "Silva is Out for revenge" or "Bond comes back to help MI6" ( which were the Arguments thrown at me the last time someone tried it).

    Bond a sociopath?! Do you even know the meaning of the word? I suggest you look up the definition in a dictionary and then come back on here to explain how Bond is in any way sociopathic.

    And I'm really not surprised my "logicalwise = irony" reference went right over your head.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 908
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    "logicalwise" - Spot the irony anyone?
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    It is quite fascinating watching you guys applaud each other for your lack of an ethical and moral compass. Somehow reminds me of all those shoulder clapping a few month ago for ensuring each other, that SFs Story isn't a complete Desaster logicalwise.

    Almost as fascinating as you being unable to grasp that Bond is just fantasy. It is fictional, nothing more nothing less. You keep banging on and on about 'ethics' as though we're discussing this issue as though it's based in reality.

    Every Bond Film before was Fantasy too, but until SF he managed to be a Hero and not a sociopath!

    Regarding the "logicalwise" I repeat my offer from a few month ago. Just show me ANYTHING in SF that really makes Sense after the Point Bond leaves the Hotel in Istanbul. And please spare me nonarguments like "Silva is Out for revenge" or "Bond comes back to help MI6" ( which were the Arguments thrown at me the last time someone tried it).

    Bond a sociopath?! Do you even know the meaning of the word? I suggest you look up the definition in a dictionary and then come back on here to explain how Bond is in any way sociopathic.

    And I'm really not surprised my "logicalwise = irony" reference went right over your head.

    A sociopath is someone who doesn't care about the fate of other People apart from himself (and maybe some others he has interest in for whatever reasons). You know just like the Guy in SF that watches 3 People getting killed while watching bored.

    "And I'm really not surprised my "logicalwise = irony" reference went right over your head."

    It's so much easier denigrating someone, than disarm his Arguments, isn't it? Well at least for you and a bunch of not so cerebral inclined in this Forum.
    BTW, my offer still stands ...
  • Posts: 6,396
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    "logicalwise" - Spot the irony anyone?
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    It is quite fascinating watching you guys applaud each other for your lack of an ethical and moral compass. Somehow reminds me of all those shoulder clapping a few month ago for ensuring each other, that SFs Story isn't a complete Desaster logicalwise.

    Almost as fascinating as you being unable to grasp that Bond is just fantasy. It is fictional, nothing more nothing less. You keep banging on and on about 'ethics' as though we're discussing this issue as though it's based in reality.

    Every Bond Film before was Fantasy too, but until SF he managed to be a Hero and not a sociopath!

    Regarding the "logicalwise" I repeat my offer from a few month ago. Just show me ANYTHING in SF that really makes Sense after the Point Bond leaves the Hotel in Istanbul. And please spare me nonarguments like "Silva is Out for revenge" or "Bond comes back to help MI6" ( which were the Arguments thrown at me the last time someone tried it).

    Bond a sociopath?! Do you even know the meaning of the word? I suggest you look up the definition in a dictionary and then come back on here to explain how Bond is in any way sociopathic.

    And I'm really not surprised my "logicalwise = irony" reference went right over your head.

    A sociopath is someone who doesn't care about the fate of other People apart from himself (and maybe some others he has interest in for whatever reasons). You know just like the Guy in SF that watches 3 People getting killed while watching bored.

    "And I'm really not surprised my "logicalwise = irony" reference went right over your head."

    It's so much easier denigrating someone, than disarm his Arguments, isn't it? Well at least for you and a bunch of not so cerebral inclined in this Forum.
    BTW, my offer still stands ...

    How about I disarm this argument then?

    A sociopath is defined as a person with a psychopathic personality, usually criminal and antisocial, who puts his own interests first with no regard to others. Self preservation is priority.

    This may well apply to a character like Tony Soprano but not James Bond.

    Bond may well possess some similar characteristics, (understandable given the job he does would mean he'd have to fit a certain psychological profile) but that doesn't define him as sociopathic.

    He lives by his morals and won't compromise to reach his goals, which sets him apart from his enemies and he will not think twice about sacrificing himself for the good of Queen & Country.
  • Posts: 15,134
    timmer wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I'm struggling to understand the difference between Severine and Honey Ryder, who was raped as a child, or Pussy Galore, the victim of rape and incest. Or are they intrinsically different? All have troubled sexuality from trauma from an early age. Severine dies of course, but I think it makes her a properly tragic character.

    The disctinction here is that Severine is SEX-SLAVE in the very real and present context.
    Fleming's Bond encountered Honey and Pussy long after they were past their sexual traumas. Bond, being the good sport that he is, provided both Honey and Pussy with their first consensual hetero sexual experiences. I am sure the earth moved for both of them. Bond extended the same favour to Tiffany Case. Fleming's Bond was just that kind of guy. Fleming was obviously playing to a male fantasy too.
    What distinguishes Severine is that she is not past anything. She's right smack in the middle of it. Again, I can't condemn the character Bond. He's human. She set him up. She played to his weakness or vice or natural tendencies or whatever you want to call it. She set up a seduction scene. Everything suggests, that even if Bond had arrived on time, she had the table set for seduction.
    What grates is the filmmaking. The hamfisted way in which Craig/Mendes blithely glossed over the fact that they had taken pains to reveal her sordid past and desperate current situation as victim and sex-slave, only a few scenes earlier.
    So they shouldn't be schocked when viewers/reviewers might say, excuse me, isn't that a sex slave, that Bond is horn-dogging on here, even if we get that he might be vulnerable to her charms. Shouldn't her sex-slave status at least cause him to pause? Could this little tidbit not be addressed, even a little bit here Mendes, oh great dramatic filmmaker?
    SF is pure fiction. There are any number of ways to draw, conceive and present these scenes. I won't get into the possiblities. They are endless. Moviemakers are always re-writing and re-working scenes.
    I don't personally think the Severine scenario was very well realized. That's all. I'm not offended by it, but the backlash against it was entirely predictable, and its coming from varied quarters, not only feminists, but also mouth-breathing, red-meat eating, conservative-voting neanderthals like myself.
    SF is a damn fine film, but its not half as clever as it thinks it it. There is an unevenness of presentation to it IMO, but again I think that drama directors such as Forster and Mendes are hamstrung by the formula and the Bond conventions. They become vulnerable to overreaching.

    I have to disagree with you: it might have happened in the past, but her rape had influenced her so much that she had changed sexual orientation and was still a lesbian when the events of GF occured. In fact, she became heterosexual a few pages before the end of the novel. For Honey Ryder, she was still a wild child years after her encounter. Bond had sex with two women who both had very traumatic sexual experiences and were deeply wounded by them. Yes, they were not sex slaves, but their experiences were in no way less traumatic and it did shaped them. And in FRWL, Bond has a threesome with two Gipsy girls that have been offered to him for the night by the chief of the tribe. They were not sex slaves, but they were certainly sexy toys. He had no problem in the same film (and novel) to make a gigolo of himself for Queen & Country. He did not hesitate one moment. Why is the seduction of Severine so different? Or, to be more precise, how is it intrinsically different than these cases I mentioned? There is a difference in degree, in circumstances too, but not in essence.
  • Posts: 15,134
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    It is quite fascinating watching you guys applaud each other for your lack of an ethical and moral compass. Somehow reminds me of all those shoulder clapping a few month ago for ensuring each other, that SFs Story isn't a complete Desaster logicalwise.

    So we don't understand SF sucks and we are a bunch of amoral clueless manipulated fans. You are not shy of throwing ad hominem arguments. Why don't you demonstrate we are wrong instead of trolling?

    I refer you to Page 6 of this thread for not being in favour of repeating myself

    You made the assertion, you have the burden of proof.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,283
    Ludovico wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    It is quite fascinating watching you guys applaud each other for your lack of an ethical and moral compass. Somehow reminds me of all those shoulder clapping a few month ago for ensuring each other, that SFs Story isn't a complete Desaster logicalwise.

    So we don't understand SF sucks and we are a bunch of amoral clueless manipulated fans. You are not shy of throwing ad hominem arguments. Why don't you demonstrate we are wrong instead of trolling?

    I refer you to Page 6 of this thread for not being in favour of repeating myself

    You made the assertion, you have the burden of proof.

    My goodness this has descended into a maelstrom, what!
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    timmer wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I'm struggling to understand the difference between Severine and Honey Ryder, who was raped as a child, or Pussy Galore, the victim of rape and incest. Or are they intrinsically different? All have troubled sexuality from trauma from an early age. Severine dies of course, but I think it makes her a properly tragic character.

    The disctinction here is that Severine is SEX-SLAVE in the very real and present context. Fleming's Bond encountered Honey and Pussy long after they were past their sexual traumas. Bond, being the good sport that he is, provided both Honey and Pussy with their first consensual hetero sexual experiences. I am sure the earth moved for both of them. Bond extended the same favour to Tiffany Case. Fleming's Bond was just that kind of guy. Fleming was obviously playing to a male fantasy too.
    What distinguishes Severine is that she is not past anything. She's right smack in the middle of it. Again, I can't condemn the character Bond. He's human. She set him up. She played to his weakness or vice or natural tendencies or whatever you want to call it. She set up a seduction scene. Everything suggests, that even if Bond had arrived on time, she had the table set for seduction.
    What grates is the filmmaking. The hamfisted way in which Craig/Mendes blithely glossed over the fact that they had taken pains to reveal her sordid past and desperate current situation as victim and sex-slave, only a few scenes earlier.
    So they shouldn't be shocked when viewers/reviewers might say, excuse me, isn't that a sex slave, that Bond is horn-dogging on here, even if we get that he might be vulnerable to her charms. Shouldn't her sex-slave status at least cause him to pause? Could this little tidbit not be addressed, even a little bit here Mendes, oh great dramatic filmmaker?
    SF is pure fiction. There are any number of ways to draw, conceive and present these scenes. I won't get into the possiblities. They are endless. Moviemakers are always re-writing and re-working scenes.
    I don't personally think the Severine scenario was very well realized. That's all. I'm not offended by it, but the backlash against it was entirely predictable, and its coming from varied quarters, not only feminists, but also mouth-breathing, red-meat eating, conservative-voting neanderthals like myself.
    SF is a damn fine film, but its not half as clever as it thinks it it. There is an unevenness of presentation to it IMO, but again I think that drama directors such as Forster and Mendes are hamstrung by the formula and the Bond conventions. They become vulnerable to overreaching.

    I'm going to respond to this since it isn't PC whining, and that you freely admit you are a neanderthal. That takes some courage ;)

    Bolded statement #1- I'm afraid I still don't see this point. Severine is no longer a sex slave the moment she decided to be Silva's woman. She made a choice and left that behind. It sounds to me like he's more of a "sugar daddy" than anything else, or at least it started out that way, because she is actively aiding him as we see in Shanghai. This is why I say she is no innocent victim, she used Silva to escape the sex trade and she used Bond to get free from Silva. Which is why I keep asking, what is the difference between Severine and Andrea Anders? Both are afraid of and controlled by these respective men. No one seems capable of sufficiently giving a reason for that, yet somehow these strong similarities in their characters and motivations get glossed over in the name of PC.

    Bolded statement #2- The PC'ers are hard at work again spinning the whole thing to suit their POV. I've seen two days worth of PC news here in Philly because Eagles WR Riley Cooper was drunk and used the "n word" after an altercation with a black security guard at a Kenny Chesney concert. The guy went and sincerely apologized to any and all listening including his teammates and took his medicine like a man. The team fined him and demanded he attend sensitivity classes. Day 2 of this, the PC'ers are now trying to tell the Eagles how to run their business and demanding he be fired. Yes, Cooper by my standards was clearly wrong and should have been punished as the team saw fit. But we have something here in this country that the PC'ers are trying very hard to remove- the right to freedom of speech. Racism is wrong but people still have the right to express how they feel and make idiots of themselves and hold themselves up to scorn and ridicule if that's what they choose to do. Now, regarding Bond and Severine, you've admitted that she plotted the whole seduction. So what is Bond supposed to say? This isn't under aged Bibi Dahl we're talking about here. This is a grown woman and Bond shouldn't have to make the decision whether she is in the right mental frame to have sex with him or anyone else. He makes the assumption, right or wrong, that she has reconciled her past and I see nothing so grievous that should make him consider otherwise. And it's not like he didn't try to see if she was damaged goods. He asked her about it and she told him "you know nothing" and clearly didn't feel the topic was up for discussion. What's he supposed to do? He sees she's afraid and offers to help. It's not his job whether she needs a shrink or not. His job is what it always has been, to go on a mission and get results by getting the bad guy. Did this ever stop Bond from taking pleasure in the arms of a beautiful woman? Again, I defer to Barb's judgement as a known bit of a feminist, in this matter.

    @Helm- if I thought you were a troll I would have said so myself. An annoying and misguided twit who's so full of his own thoughts and impressions that no one can reason with you, most definitely. I'd be more than willing, as I was in the previous SF threads, to debate anything that doesn't make sense to you in SF and show you there is more than one way to see things. But I somehow don't think you really want that judging by the closed minded way you continue to non debate the other members and continue to insist you are right and we all are wrong. Just like that Dressed To Kill guy. Who's no longer here.

  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    "logicalwise" - Spot the irony anyone?
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    It is quite fascinating watching you guys applaud each other for your lack of an ethical and moral compass. Somehow reminds me of all those shoulder clapping a few month ago for ensuring each other, that SFs Story isn't a complete Desaster logicalwise.

    Almost as fascinating as you being unable to grasp that Bond is just fantasy. It is fictional, nothing more nothing less. You keep banging on and on about 'ethics' as though we're discussing this issue as though it's based in reality.

    Every Bond Film before was Fantasy too, but until SF he managed to be a Hero and not a sociopath!

    Regarding the "logicalwise" I repeat my offer from a few month ago. Just show me ANYTHING in SF that really makes Sense after the Point Bond leaves the Hotel in Istanbul. And please spare me nonarguments like "Silva is Out for revenge" or "Bond comes back to help MI6" ( which were the Arguments thrown at me the last time someone tried it).

    Bond a sociopath?! Do you even know the meaning of the word? I suggest you look up the definition in a dictionary and then come back on here to explain how Bond is in any way sociopathic.

    And I'm really not surprised my "logicalwise = irony" reference went right over your head.

    A sociopath is someone who doesn't care about the fate of other People apart from himself (and maybe some others he has interest in for whatever reasons). You know just like the Guy in SF that watches 3 People getting killed while watching bored.

    A psychopath would not shed tears at M's death, display horror at the bombing of MI6 on CNN News, show genuine empathy and concern for Ronson (and risk losing valuable time in an attempt to stop the bleeding). The nuances and small gestures in Craig's acting show that Bond has a heart, but is repressing any grief. If anything, Bond's callousness is an act.
  • Posts: 908
    timmer wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:

    @Helm- if I thought you were a troll I would have said so myself. An annoying and misguided twit who's so full of his own thoughts and impressions that no one can reason with you, most definitely. I'd be more than willing, as I was in the previous SF threads, to debate anything that doesn't make sense to you in SF and show you there is more than one way to see things. But I somehow don't think you really want that judging by the closed minded way you continue to non debate the other members and continue to insist you are right and we all are wrong. Just like that Dressed To Kill guy. Who's no longer here.

    I didn't say I want to debate SF. I don't need to, since I have my mind made up about it. I asked to be shown anything that makes Sense in this Movie (from a logical POV). Show me and I will gladly prove you wrong!
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    timmer wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:

    @Helm- if I thought you were a troll I would have said so myself. An annoying and misguided twit who's so full of his own thoughts and impressions that no one can reason with you, most definitely. I'd be more than willing, as I was in the previous SF threads, to debate anything that doesn't make sense to you in SF and show you there is more than one way to see things. But I somehow don't think you really want that judging by the closed minded way you continue to non debate the other members and continue to insist you are right and we all are wrong. Just like that Dressed To Kill guy. Who's no longer here.

    I didn't say I want to debate SF. I don't need to, since I have my mind made up about it. I asked to be shown anything that makes Sense in this Movie (from a logical POV). Show me and I will gladly prove you wrong!

    No, please, after you sir. I'm not the one with all these issues with the film that most do not have, and most of it makes enough sense for me. I tend to be more positive than not when it comes to Bond films, that's what true fandom is about.

    BTW, I've just explained the Severine seduction and how logical it was for him not to think she wasn't offering herself and why he didn't feel the need to keep it platonic. Sorry, but I'm not buying the "once a sex slave, always a sex slave theory". I know women much better than that.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 908
    Well, here I am and since I've been walking debating alley before and found it annoyingly boring and rude I made my offer. Given the overwhelming Love for me here I would think you all would gladly respond to it, but ....Come on, one Single Part of the Story that makes really Sense (and i am not dwelling on little Things like the fall from the Bridge. I expect my Bond to survive such trifles)
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    You're so funny, aren't you? Now we're annoyingly boring and rude, are we? Ok, well you had the guts so show up, so...

    Let's start with the PTS then. I think the bridge fall was too far fetched for my liking, but you knew that. Then again, I have bigger problems with the MR and GE PTS segments so once those have been let out of the bag, it's like trying to return s**t back where it came from. Let's start with where you think things started going wrong and work on it from there.
  • Posts: 908
    So Bond leaves the Hotel and miraculously Eve drives around the corner,already in pursuit of Patrice. How conveneant (especially in a hell of town like Istanbul ). See what I mean? Lets proceed ....
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Well, here I am and since I've been walking debating alley before and found it annoyingly boring and rude I made my offer. Given the overwhelming Love for me here I would think you all would gladly respond to it, but ....Come on, one Single Part of the Story that makes really Sense (and i am not dwelling on little Things like the fall from the Bridge. I expect my Bond to survive such trifles)

    What's with the All the random upper Case Letters. Is your Keyboard broken?

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,283
    Well at least things are a bit more civil now, I'm glad to say. things are often much easier that way, I find.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Same as in many Bond film, the aide arriving in time. See QOS and plenty of others I am sure. Not entirely illogical.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    So Bond leaves the Hotel and miraculously Eve drives around the corner,already in pursuit of Patrice. How conveneant (especially in a hell of town like Istanbul ). See what I mean? Lets proceed ....

    And how convenient that you STILL haven't been able to argue against the logic of Mallory giving M the boot for being responsible for the ill fated mission in Istanbul
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited August 2013 Posts: 348
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    So Bond leaves the Hotel and miraculously Eve drives around the corner,already in pursuit of Patrice. How conveneant (especially in a hell of town like Istanbul ). See what I mean? Lets proceed ....

    They both have earpieces and are in constant contact with MI6 HQ. What doesn't make sense?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,283
    This thread has become rather convoluted - it's the forum equivalent of the plot of The Living Daylights! @-)
  • Posts: 6,396
    Dragonpol wrote:
    This thread has become rather convoluted - it's the forum equivalent of the plot of The Living Daylights! @-)

    =))
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,283
    Dragonpol wrote:
    This thread has become rather convoluted - it's the forum equivalent of the plot of The Living Daylights! @-)

    =))

    ...with a liberal dash of Octopussy's plot thrown in for good measure!
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Shark wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    So Bond leaves the Hotel and miraculously Eve drives around the corner,already in pursuit of Patrice. How conveneant (especially in a hell of town like Istanbul ). See what I mean? Lets proceed ....

    They both have earpieces and are in constant contact with MI6 HQ. What doesn't make sense?

    The correct response to Mr.Helm's initial gambit. Earpieces and there's also GPS to navigate the town and it's environs. Should I start keeping score?

    SF FANS- 1
    MR. HELM AND SUPPORTERS- 0


    Now we're cooking with gas!

  • Posts: 908
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    So Bond leaves the Hotel and miraculously Eve drives around the corner,already in pursuit of Patrice. How conveneant (especially in a hell of town like Istanbul ). See what I mean? Lets proceed ....

    And how convenient that you STILL haven't been able to argue against the logic of Mallory giving M the boot for being responsible for the ill fated mission in Istanbul

    As already mentioned this (just like Silvas thirst for revenge ) does nothing for or against SFs Storyline.
  • Posts: 908
    Shark wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    So Bond leaves the Hotel and miraculously Eve drives around the corner,already in pursuit of Patrice. How conveneant (especially in a hell of town like Istanbul ). See what I mean? Lets proceed ....

    They both have earpieces and are in constant contact with MI6 HQ. What doesn't make sense?

    Istanbuls Traffic (and of course the notion,that Patrice should try to get away from the Crime scene and not driving around in circles).
  • Posts: 908
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    This thread has become rather convoluted - it's the forum equivalent of the plot of The Living Daylights! @-)

    =))

    ...with a liberal dash of Octopussy's plot thrown in for good measure!

    Octopussy's plot is the best part of the whole Movie (well,apart from "All Time High" the last of the classic Bond Songs), at least in my opinion.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    So Bond leaves the Hotel and miraculously Eve drives around the corner,already in pursuit of Patrice. How conveneant (especially in a hell of town like Istanbul ). See what I mean? Lets proceed ....

    And how convenient that you STILL haven't been able to argue against the logic of Mallory giving M the boot for being responsible for the ill fated mission in Istanbul

    As already mentioned this (just like Silvas thirst for revenge ) does nothing for or against SFs Storyline.

    Let's first discuss your peeves scene by scene and see how many points people agree with you on, shall we? We can discuss the overall storyline when finished. As to point #1, this is an action segment and how boring would it truly be if there was a traffic jam? Wouldn't you rather not see another foot chase for the 3rd film in a row?

    Everyone, let's stay calm, on point, and reasonable until we have reason to feel otherwise. I will, like I do in my "Originals" thread, moderate and keep a fair score.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 18,283
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    This thread has become rather convoluted - it's the forum equivalent of the plot of The Living Daylights! @-)

    =))

    ...with a liberal dash of Octopussy's plot thrown in for good measure!

    Octopussy's plot is the best part of the whole Movie (well,apart from "All Time High" the last of the classic Bond Songs), at least in my opinion.

    Yes, but my point was that it becomes rather convoluted after a while. But I do love Octopussy.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 15,134
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    So Bond leaves the Hotel and miraculously Eve drives around the corner,already in pursuit of Patrice. How conveneant (especially in a hell of town like Istanbul ). See what I mean? Lets proceed ....

    What do you think of the PTS of FRWL while we are at it? How did SPECTRE convince the guy to wear that James Bond mask and go against Grant, how did they have a perfect mask of Bond's face? Sometimes movie have convenient (or conveneant as you say) moments like this, for the sake of plot fluidity or for dramatic effect.

    And FRWL is still hailed as the best Bond by many.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,283
    Ludovico wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    So Bond leaves the Hotel and miraculously Eve drives around the corner,already in pursuit of Patrice. How conveneant (especially in a hell of town like Istanbul ). See what I mean? Lets proceed ....

    What do you think of the PTS of FRWL while we are at it? How did SPECTRE convince the guy to wear that James Bond mask and go against Grant, how did they have a perfect mask of Bond's face? Sometimes movie have convenient (or conveneant as you say) moments like this, for the sake of plot fluidity or for dramatic effect.

    And FRWL is still hailed as the best Bond by many.

    Indeed, they are ultimately only films after all, and rather escapist ones at that. That needs to be borne in mind, I think. It's a point worth emphasising as they often don't conform to how things really are in the real world or in real life.
  • Fellas, we're not discussing TLD or FRWL right now. If we're going to discuss SF and it's strengths and/or weaknesses, let's give Mr. Helm the floor and not distract him with similarities to other Bond films. Have we finished with Istanbul yet, Mr. Helm? I only have a few minutes left to be here tonight, and I hope it won't blow up while I'm gone. I have two children that also need my attention.
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