Are Bond films heavily biased to cater for U.S. audiences?

RC7

MajorDSmythe wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Well, perhaps the creator of Bond Ian Fleming is to blame for all this. Just look at how the American character and head of SHAPE, Colonel Schrieber is portrayed in the rather forgotten short story 'From A View to A Kill' (1960) to see what is perhaps the origin of this theme of British superiority over the Americans. In James Bond's defence I would point out that as a citizen of the UK, Bond is British and he is our hero first and foremost. We're very proud indeed of him here and gung-ho American heroes are two a penny in Hollywood, so allow us British our extravagance please.

That sums it up. Usually it's the US of A that has to sort out everyone else's problems. So it's a pleasant change for a british character to have to do the same.

Or they feel obliged to. Some people don't want the US to sort their problems out. Hence Team America: World Police.

Dragonpol

RC7 wrote:

MajorDSmythe wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Well, perhaps the creator of Bond Ian Fleming is to blame for all this. Just look at how the American character and head of SHAPE, Colonel Schrieber is portrayed in the rather forgotten short story 'From A View to A Kill' (1960) to see what is perhaps the origin of this theme of British superiority over the Americans. In James Bond's defence I would point out that as a citizen of the UK, Bond is British and he is our hero first and foremost. We're very proud indeed of him here and gung-ho American heroes are two a penny in Hollywood, so allow us British our extravagance please.

That sums it up. Usually it's the US of A that has to sort out everyone else's problems. So it's a pleasant change for a british character to have to do the same.

Or they feel obliged to. Some people don't want the US to sort their problems out. Hence Team America: World Police.

Something which, as a historian (and lawyer), I would like to point out comes from Britain's decline from the world stage in the late 1940s when it was forced to pull out from its commitments Turkey and Greece (largely for monetary reasons and problems in the British Empire which was even then beginning to dwindle) and hand over to the Americans. This was the nearest it came to Britain handing over the baton of world policeman (see the recent DAD, 2002 for the British being labelled this by the North Korean General Moon) to its former colony and more recently vital wartime ally, the United States of America. America as such filled the Allied void left by the dwindling British and the Suez Crisis of 1956 was a similar case and is generally regarded as the end of British influence on the world stage. We have very much played second fiddle to our powerful American ally ever since as the recent War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq and beyond has very much shown.

As has been noted above we should really let James Bond have his British superiority over the American allies and not complain about it - it's virtually the only place you'll find this type of sentiment in a Hollywood film these days, so at least allow us to dream and brush the reality of British Intelligence that is the Cambridge Spy Ring under the carpet. The myth of British Intelligence crystallised in Ian Fleming's oeuvre was always thankfully greater than the reality and thank good fortune for it, as the reality of treacherous spies, treason against the Crown and general incompetence are for too grim for words!

Dragonpol

WillyGalore wrote:

It would be like Indiana Jones saying 'turn on the tap' instead of 'faucet' or 'fill up my car with petrol' instead of 'gas'.

@dragonpol

What do you make of my other points, especially concerning who gets to sing the theme tune?

Sorry for not responding sooner, @WillyGalore, old chuck. Yes, I think you have made a very interesting discussion here that is highly relevant and something in my vast tomes of notes, that I had never myself ever thought of, so very well done in that regard as I don't miss very much as I'm sure you and MI6 are aware by now!

On the specifics of the American singers, yes, that is correct, too. Spot on, in fact. The first two Craig era theme songs were were sang by Americans and Adele is a Britisher who is also big in America, so go figure, basically. Hey, that was another damned Americanism!

Dragonpol

WillyGalore wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

MajorDSmythe wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Well, perhaps the creator of Bond Ian Fleming is to blame for all this. Just look at how the American character and head of SHAPE, Colonel Schrieber is portrayed in the rather forgotten short story 'From A View to A Kill' (1960) to see what is perhaps the origin of this theme of British superiority over the Americans. In James Bond's defence I would point out that as a citizen of the UK, Bond is British and he is our hero first and foremost. We're very proud indeed of him here and gung-ho American heroes are two a penny in Hollywood, so allow us British our extravagance please.

That sums it up. Usually it's the US of A that has to sort out everyone else's problems. So it's a pleasant change for a british character to have to do the same.

Yes, and his overt Britishness is what makes James Bond so very different from any other type of hero, in my view.

Which all brings us, very nicely, full circle to the original question posed. Good contributions from everyone involved. =D>

Well, despite some meandering, we got there, then. Thank you for your kind words of thanks and encouragement. Your manners are impeccable, sir.

Perilagu_Khan

Soundofthesinners wrote:

For the longest time, it was just the opposite. Americans were almost always portrayed as idiots barely able to get out of their own way long enough to let Bond save them. In Goldfinger, they needed a British operative to stop a terrorist plot in their own soil, in You Only Live Twice, Britain needed to talk America out of nuclear war, in Live and Let Die, it took a British agent to stop an American drug ring (same in Licence to Kill), in GoldenEye, Jack Wade swears that there's no way Trevelyan could build the satellite dish in Cuba, only to find that he did, in Tomorrow Never Dies, Carver decides to start World War III with the British instead of the Americans, and in Quantum of Solace, the CIA will gladly hop into bed with Greene and Quantum over the presumed oil in Bolivia.

Not to mention that in the films except Casino Royale, Felix serves primarily as James's helplessly less awesome sidekick and support staff, who is at most a near-equal partner and at worst John Terry. I will not dignify Jack Wade any more than his regrettably necessary previous two mentions.

All this far outweighs using expressions like cell phone and station break (which I don't remember having heard outside the context of Tomorrow Never Dies).

Agreed. And I have no problem with masterful Brits saving blithering Yanks in Bond films. It demonstrates a refreshing British patriotism which seems to be all too lacking in the real world.

TheWizardOfIce

Perilagu_Khan wrote:

Soundofthesinners wrote:

For the longest time, it was just the opposite. Americans were almost always portrayed as idiots barely able to get out of their own way long enough to let Bond save them. In Goldfinger, they needed a British operative to stop a terrorist plot in their own soil, in You Only Live Twice, Britain needed to talk America out of nuclear war, in Live and Let Die, it took a British agent to stop an American drug ring (same in Licence to Kill), in GoldenEye, Jack Wade swears that there's no way Trevelyan could build the satellite dish in Cuba, only to find that he did, in Tomorrow Never Dies, Carver decides to start World War III with the British instead of the Americans, and in Quantum of Solace, the CIA will gladly hop into bed with Greene and Quantum over the presumed oil in Bolivia.

Not to mention that in the films except Casino Royale, Felix serves primarily as James's helplessly less awesome sidekick and support staff, who is at most a near-equal partner and at worst John Terry. I will not dignify Jack Wade any more than his regrettably necessary previous two mentions.

All this far outweighs using expressions like cell phone and station break (which I don't remember having heard outside the context of Tomorrow Never Dies).

Agreed. And I have no problem with masterful Brits saving blithering Yanks in Bond films. It demonstrates a refreshing British patriotism which seems to be all too lacking in the real world.

This is a very good point.

Bond speaks to the British sense of patriotism and given that we are the only country on earth where proudly flying your flag gets you automatically branded a racist it's understandable we are protective of him.

Perilagu_Khan

Sadly, the US is becoming that way, too, Wizard.

Dragonpol

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

Perilagu_Khan wrote:

Soundofthesinners wrote:

For the longest time, it was just the opposite. Americans were almost always portrayed as idiots barely able to get out of their own way long enough to let Bond save them. In Goldfinger, they needed a British operative to stop a terrorist plot in their own soil, in You Only Live Twice, Britain needed to talk America out of nuclear war, in Live and Let Die, it took a British agent to stop an American drug ring (same in Licence to Kill), in GoldenEye, Jack Wade swears that there's no way Trevelyan could build the satellite dish in Cuba, only to find that he did, in Tomorrow Never Dies, Carver decides to start World War III with the British instead of the Americans, and in Quantum of Solace, the CIA will gladly hop into bed with Greene and Quantum over the presumed oil in Bolivia.

Not to mention that in the films except Casino Royale, Felix serves primarily as James's helplessly less awesome sidekick and support staff, who is at most a near-equal partner and at worst John Terry. I will not dignify Jack Wade any more than his regrettably necessary previous two mentions.

All this far outweighs using expressions like cell phone and station break (which I don't remember having heard outside the context of Tomorrow Never Dies).

Agreed. And I have no problem with masterful Brits saving blithering Yanks in Bond films. It demonstrates a refreshing British patriotism which seems to be all too lacking in the real world.

This is a very good point.

Bond speaks to the British sense of patriotism and given that we are the only country on earth where proudly flying your flag gets you automatically branded a racist it's understandable we are protective of him.

All because of those idiots in the National Front in the 1980s. Numbskulls and neo-Nazis with skinheads, rather ironically. I think that their influence has receded thankfully, though we still have the beautiful BNP to keep us company.

Troy

MajorDSmythe wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Well, perhaps the creator of Bond Ian Fleming is to blame for all this. Just look at how the American character and head of SHAPE, Colonel Schrieber is portrayed in the rather forgotten short story 'From A View to A Kill' (1960) to see what is perhaps the origin of this theme of British superiority over the Americans. In James Bond's defence I would point out that as a citizen of the UK, Bond is British and he is our hero first and foremost. We're very proud indeed of him here and gung-ho American heroes are two a penny in Hollywood, so allow us British our extravagance please.

That sums it up. Usually it's the US of A that has to sort out everyone else's problems. So it's a pleasant change for a british character to have to do the same.

.

I thought that is quite normal - which is why the US have to drag the UK along to hold their hands every time they want to invade a country

Dragonpol

Troy wrote:

MajorDSmythe wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Well, perhaps the creator of Bond Ian Fleming is to blame for all this. Just look at how the American character and head of SHAPE, Colonel Schrieber is portrayed in the rather forgotten short story 'From A View to A Kill' (1960) to see what is perhaps the origin of this theme of British superiority over the Americans. In James Bond's defence I would point out that as a citizen of the UK, Bond is British and he is our hero first and foremost. We're very proud indeed of him here and gung-ho American heroes are two a penny in Hollywood, so allow us British our extravagance please.

That sums it up. Usually it's the US of A that has to sort out everyone else's problems. So it's a pleasant change for a british character to have to do the same.

.

I thought that is quite normal - which is why the US have to drag the UK along to hold their hands every time they want to invade a country

Yes, "Yankee Doodle and his poodle" and all that jazz. Well, it could be worse, I mean Britain could be allied with France. Oh wait, we are.

TheWizardOfIce

Dragonpol wrote:

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

Perilagu_Khan wrote:

Soundofthesinners wrote:

For the longest time, it was just the opposite. Americans were almost always portrayed as idiots barely able to get out of their own way long enough to let Bond save them. In Goldfinger, they needed a British operative to stop a terrorist plot in their own soil, in You Only Live Twice, Britain needed to talk America out of nuclear war, in Live and Let Die, it took a British agent to stop an American drug ring (same in Licence to Kill), in GoldenEye, Jack Wade swears that there's no way Trevelyan could build the satellite dish in Cuba, only to find that he did, in Tomorrow Never Dies, Carver decides to start World War III with the British instead of the Americans, and in Quantum of Solace, the CIA will gladly hop into bed with Greene and Quantum over the presumed oil in Bolivia.

Not to mention that in the films except Casino Royale, Felix serves primarily as James's helplessly less awesome sidekick and support staff, who is at most a near-equal partner and at worst John Terry. I will not dignify Jack Wade any more than his regrettably necessary previous two mentions.

All this far outweighs using expressions like cell phone and station break (which I don't remember having heard outside the context of Tomorrow Never Dies).

Agreed. And I have no problem with masterful Brits saving blithering Yanks in Bond films. It demonstrates a refreshing British patriotism which seems to be all too lacking in the real world.

This is a very good point.

Bond speaks to the British sense of patriotism and given that we are the only country on earth where proudly flying your flag gets you automatically branded a racist it's understandable we are protective of him.

All because of those idiots in the National Front in the 1980s. Numbskulls and neo-Nazis with skinheads, rather ironically. I think that their influence has receded thankfully, though we still have the beautiful BNP to keep us company.

Which lest we forget amidst all the BBC and Guardianista bias is a perfectly legal political party.

Dragonpol

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

Perilagu_Khan wrote:

Soundofthesinners wrote:

For the longest time, it was just the opposite. Americans were almost always portrayed as idiots barely able to get out of their own way long enough to let Bond save them. In Goldfinger, they needed a British operative to stop a terrorist plot in their own soil, in You Only Live Twice, Britain needed to talk America out of nuclear war, in Live and Let Die, it took a British agent to stop an American drug ring (same in Licence to Kill), in GoldenEye, Jack Wade swears that there's no way Trevelyan could build the satellite dish in Cuba, only to find that he did, in Tomorrow Never Dies, Carver decides to start World War III with the British instead of the Americans, and in Quantum of Solace, the CIA will gladly hop into bed with Greene and Quantum over the presumed oil in Bolivia.

Not to mention that in the films except Casino Royale, Felix serves primarily as James's helplessly less awesome sidekick and support staff, who is at most a near-equal partner and at worst John Terry. I will not dignify Jack Wade any more than his regrettably necessary previous two mentions.

All this far outweighs using expressions like cell phone and station break (which I don't remember having heard outside the context of Tomorrow Never Dies).

Agreed. And I have no problem with masterful Brits saving blithering Yanks in Bond films. It demonstrates a refreshing British patriotism which seems to be all too lacking in the real world.

This is a very good point.

Bond speaks to the British sense of patriotism and given that we are the only country on earth where proudly flying your flag gets you automatically branded a racist it's understandable we are protective of him.

All because of those idiots in the National Front in the 1980s. Numbskulls and neo-Nazis with skinheads, rather ironically. I think that their influence has receded thankfully, though we still have the beautiful BNP to keep us company.

Which lest we forget amidst all the BBC and Guardianista bias is a perfectly legal political party.

Oh yes, I agree, Ice. Funny I was just talking to my brother about these political ideas while he was hammering in thin planks to hold up the new apple trees he was has planted in an otherwise unproductive area of his garden. I could tell he was enthralled...!

It's like my Dutch friend Olaf was saying, fascism is BAD - Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Antonescu etc. - BAD, but Socialism/Communism/Marxism/Bolshevism/Trotskyism/Leninism/Stalinism is of course GOOD! Despite the fact Stalin killed many millions more of HIS OWN PEOPLE than did Hitler or Mussolini and Co. But due to the left-wing bias of nearly all/all of our media of course that little fact is buried beneath socialist dogma. As Lord Hailsham said, 'The Left Was Never Right'.

Perilagu_Khan

Troy wrote:

MajorDSmythe wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Well, perhaps the creator of Bond Ian Fleming is to blame for all this. Just look at how the American character and head of SHAPE, Colonel Schrieber is portrayed in the rather forgotten short story 'From A View to A Kill' (1960) to see what is perhaps the origin of this theme of British superiority over the Americans. In James Bond's defence I would point out that as a citizen of the UK, Bond is British and he is our hero first and foremost. We're very proud indeed of him here and gung-ho American heroes are two a penny in Hollywood, so allow us British our extravagance please.

That sums it up. Usually it's the US of A that has to sort out everyone else's problems. So it's a pleasant change for a british character to have to do the same.

.

I thought that is quite normal - which is why the US have to drag the UK along to hold their hands every time they want to invade a country

Cool it. Don't go mucking up this thread.

Dragonpol

Perilagu_Khan wrote:

Troy wrote:

MajorDSmythe wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Well, perhaps the creator of Bond Ian Fleming is to blame for all this. Just look at how the American character and head of SHAPE, Colonel Schrieber is portrayed in the rather forgotten short story 'From A View to A Kill' (1960) to see what is perhaps the origin of this theme of British superiority over the Americans. In James Bond's defence I would point out that as a citizen of the UK, Bond is British and he is our hero first and foremost. We're very proud indeed of him here and gung-ho American heroes are two a penny in Hollywood, so allow us British our extravagance please.

That sums it up. Usually it's the US of A that has to sort out everyone else's problems. So it's a pleasant change for a british character to have to do the same.

.

I thought that is quite normal - which is why the US have to drag the UK along to hold their hands every time they want to invade a country

Cool it. Don't go mucking up this thread.

Yes, there was enough of that over on the near-defunct BaB, I fear.

SirHenryLeeChaChing

Dragonpol wrote:

Troy wrote:

MajorDSmythe wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Well, perhaps the creator of Bond Ian Fleming is to blame for all this. Just look at how the American character and head of SHAPE, Colonel Schrieber is portrayed in the rather forgotten short story 'From A View to A Kill' (1960) to see what is perhaps the origin of this theme of British superiority over the Americans. In James Bond's defence I would point out that as a citizen of the UK, Bond is British and he is our hero first and foremost. We're very proud indeed of him here and gung-ho American heroes are two a penny in Hollywood, so allow us British our extravagance please.

That sums it up. Usually it's the US of A that has to sort out everyone else's problems. So it's a pleasant change for a british character to have to do the same.

.

I thought that is quite normal - which is why the US have to drag the UK along to hold their hands every time they want to invade a country

Yes, "Yankee Doodle and his poodle" and all that jazz. Well, it could be worse, I mean Britain could be allied with France. Oh wait, we are.

And for that you have my deepest sympathies :). They'll turn on you guys the moment they think they have a reason. Just like when they had a hunger issue and like a bunch of Clouseaus, dumped U.S sent grain into the Seine, making angry faces and proud to be in pictures being taken, like a bunch of drunken buffoons.

If you even threaten war on France, they'll immediately surrender :))

MajorDSmythe

Troy wrote:

I thought that is quite normal - which is why the US have to drag the UK along to hold their hands every time they want to invade a country.

There was a certain 6 year conflict that the US wanted no part in, that was until the conflict was taken to their own back garden, they were quick enough to get involved then. Put the boot on the other foot, and it's a different story entirely.

I can't help but think of Basil Fawlty, right now. ;)

WillyGalore

Do you mean his rant in "Waldorf Salad"? :-)

Dragonpol

SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Troy wrote:

MajorDSmythe wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Well, perhaps the creator of Bond Ian Fleming is to blame for all this. Just look at how the American character and head of SHAPE, Colonel Schrieber is portrayed in the rather forgotten short story 'From A View to A Kill' (1960) to see what is perhaps the origin of this theme of British superiority over the Americans. In James Bond's defence I would point out that as a citizen of the UK, Bond is British and he is our hero first and foremost. We're very proud indeed of him here and gung-ho American heroes are two a penny in Hollywood, so allow us British our extravagance please.

That sums it up. Usually it's the US of A that has to sort out everyone else's problems. So it's a pleasant change for a british character to have to do the same.

.

I thought that is quite normal - which is why the US have to drag the UK along to hold their hands every time they want to invade a country

Yes, "Yankee Doodle and his poodle" and all that jazz. Well, it could be worse, I mean Britain could be allied with France. Oh wait, we are.

And for that you have my deepest sympathies :). They'll turn on you guys the moment they think they have a reason. Just like when they had a hunger issue and like a bunch of Clouseaus, dumped U.S sent grain into the Seine, making angry faces and proud to be in pictures being taken, like a bunch of drunken buffoons.

If you even threaten war on France, they'll immediately surrender :))

Yes, those French blighters must have been in-seine (insane)!

Also, you are beginning to sound like Ian Fleming in Casino Royale: "...since all French people have liver problems" (My italics there).

SirHenryLeeChaChing

Dragonpol wrote:

SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Troy wrote:

MajorDSmythe wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Well, perhaps the creator of Bond Ian Fleming is to blame for all this. Just look at how the American character and head of SHAPE, Colonel Schrieber is portrayed in the rather forgotten short story 'From A View to A Kill' (1960) to see what is perhaps the origin of this theme of British superiority over the Americans. In James Bond's defence I would point out that as a citizen of the UK, Bond is British and he is our hero first and foremost. We're very proud indeed of him here and gung-ho American heroes are two a penny in Hollywood, so allow us British our extravagance please.

That sums it up. Usually it's the US of A that has to sort out everyone else's problems. So it's a pleasant change for a british character to have to do the same.

.

I thought that is quite normal - which is why the US have to drag the UK along to hold their hands every time they want to invade a country

Yes, "Yankee Doodle and his poodle" and all that jazz. Well, it could be worse, I mean Britain could be allied with France. Oh wait, we are.

And for that you have my deepest sympathies :). They'll turn on you guys the moment they think they have a reason. Just like when they had a hunger issue and like a bunch of Clouseaus, dumped U.S sent grain into the Seine, making angry faces and proud to be in pictures being taken, like a bunch of drunken buffoons.

If you even threaten war on France, they'll immediately surrender :))

Yes, those French blighters must have been in-seine (insane)!

Also, you are beginning to sound like Ian Fleming in Casino Royale: "...since all French people have liver problems" (My italics there).

Is that a compliment? Why thank you. Drinking, smoking, wenching- the great man and I had a lot in common!

Vichy France is the perfect example of how the French truly operate ;). To Hitler- "You're the new boss? Gee, that's great! What do you want me to do, boss?" :))

Dragonpol

SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Troy wrote:

MajorDSmythe wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

Well, perhaps the creator of Bond Ian Fleming is to blame for all this. Just look at how the American character and head of SHAPE, Colonel Schrieber is portrayed in the rather forgotten short story 'From A View to A Kill' (1960) to see what is perhaps the origin of this theme of British superiority over the Americans. In James Bond's defence I would point out that as a citizen of the UK, Bond is British and he is our hero first and foremost. We're very proud indeed of him here and gung-ho American heroes are two a penny in Hollywood, so allow us British our extravagance please.

That sums it up. Usually it's the US of A that has to sort out everyone else's problems. So it's a pleasant change for a british character to have to do the same.

.

I thought that is quite normal - which is why the US have to drag the UK along to hold their hands every time they want to invade a country

Yes, "Yankee Doodle and his poodle" and all that jazz. Well, it could be worse, I mean Britain could be allied with France. Oh wait, we are.

And for that you have my deepest sympathies :). They'll turn on you guys the moment they think they have a reason. Just like when they had a hunger issue and like a bunch of Clouseaus, dumped U.S sent grain into the Seine, making angry faces and proud to be in pictures being taken, like a bunch of drunken buffoons.

If you even threaten war on France, they'll immediately surrender :))

Yes, those French blighters must have been in-seine (insane)!

Also, you are beginning to sound like Ian Fleming in Casino Royale: "...since all French people have liver problems" (My italics there).

Is that a compliment? Why thank you. Drinking, smoking, wenching- the great man and I had a lot in common!

Vichy France is the perfect example of how the French truly operate ;). To Hitler- "You're the new boss? Gee, that's great! What do you want me to do, boss?" :))

Yes, you are indeed the new Ian Fleming, warts and all.

And yes, you are all too correct on the paradoxical nature of our French allies. 'Non' indeed. Frogs.

SirHenryLeeChaChing

@Dragonpol- glad you appreciate my sense of humor. As long as Matt Helm remains spouting his ego all over the place, just wait, you'll hear more!