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Agreed. @bondjames is right about a narrative forming among US critics, and it looks like it will be negative. Not a good thing because the US press has become so lazy it will just copy anything they can pick up quickly and love to pile on with negative stuff. Funny how the critics loved the other spy films this year that all copy Bond, but they criticize Bond for using its own tropes. I also always thought the negative stuff about the script in the leaks would get exploited by US critics which love to look like they know inside stuff. Also how do you stay creative and original with a franchise of 24 films, that is also getting constantly copied.
I think the low RT score can hurt the US BO. The press will feed on it. SP may be lucky to go much over $200m but I am hoping the rest of the world will make up the difference. The US and German BO weekend figures will be telling but there is still the more important issue of how good SP's legs will be. I don't share the view that BO doesn't matter. I think it matters a lot when EON is just now going into negotiations for a new studio distributor. It's all about leverage.
Exactly my fear and prediction. This is one time that I think a film is far better than reviewed or at least considerably more enjoyable.
Anxious to see the audience reaction and word of mouth. If it mirrors the US critics then yes SP and Bond will have a significant set back in the US. We will be back in back to the drawing board mode.
Plus Bond has to be viable to Sony or a new distributor.
We don't the US market to view Bond as retread and washed up especially after all the Craig era and earlier Brosnan films did to bring Bond back from near death.
And I don't want the other Bond incarnations ...the novels and more importantly the new comic to suffer either thanks to the SP reception.
Bond as a multiple million business can't run like the SP one did.
And fans, sadly.
Sadly, this is true. (And I'm an American.)
Yup ...and that's also why it bothered me when MI was so well reviewed and received thanks in large part to those reviews and word of mouth.
I am sure I am going to enjoy SP more or just as much as MI (I'm way more partial to Bond.), but that critical performance is going to be mud in Bond's eye.
http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a38546/daniel-craig-best-james-bond/
The question is whether SP is being unfairly bashed. I think it is because 65% seems too low. I'll know for sure (personally) this Friday.
The key also is whether this negativity affects weeks 2 and 3 holding power at the US box office. I think it might marginally, but regardless, I also think that we have a $950M or so global box office winner here. There is too much pent up demand for Bond after SF.
I think they've done a decent job with M:I, which I thought might bottom out after III, but SP is on another level for me. Although in fairness to RN I actually feel it's hard to make a direct comparison because they both strive for and achieve different things. It's essentially a truly US vehicle vs. a truly British institution and I'm a patriot. We bring the class (winks).
And this could very well be the issue imho. US patriotism.
Bond has trounced MI twice now (MI3 was decimated by CR in the same yr and the superb Mi4-GP was also beaten soundly by SF the next yr). Furthermore, SF thrashed the highly touted TDRK globally (almost unheard of). Perhaps there is a subconscious revenge element.....? ;)
I enjoyed MI and it was very good. Probably better written than SP I'm sure, BUT I'm as an experience I'm going to enjoy SP considerably more. Nothing will compare.
Spectre is to have a wide release on Friday of at least 3,927 theatre's.
the film is also going to be having previews on Thursday at 3,000+ locations from 7pm onwards.
Interestingly, Sony have lowered their BO forecast for SP on opening weekend to $70-75 mil........but other industry experts, truly do not believe this will be the case.
Well, our American members here, better go and book their tickets for this weekend! :)
Very good point. Mission Impossible, Kingsman, and Spy all blatantly used the Bond formula and references, sometimes even to promote and market themselves, and all got positive critical notices. Now Bond uses its own formula and its being held to a higher standard for some reason. Maybe there's an attitude that Bond is seen as the leader of the pack so it should be pushing forward rather than resting on its laurels.
Another thing I find interesting are the constant "Waah, its not Skyfall 2!" references in the negative reviews. Now Mission Impossible (which I did enjoy) BLATANTLY copied Skyfall and thus, for a lot of critics, did deliver the Skyfall 2 experience.
The critical score won't matter at all. The most popular film of the year had 71% on RT. The billion grossing Minions has 54% (Can you imagine kids wanting to go to Minions and their parents saying no, sorry, it only has a 54% tomatometer score, we can't possibly go to that :)) ) 50 Shades of grey had 24% and yet had an 85 million opening weekend. Reviews never, ever stop people from seeing what they want to see, ever. The only impact critics have these days are bringing attention and creating buzz for smaller indie movies or for the annual Oscars circle jerk.
Bond is a very big "silent majority" event. What I mean by that is that there are huge numbers of people who see Bond movies who aren't on the internet, didn't pay attention to leaks, don't read reviews, but will all be there every time.
US critics do seem to have an agenda though at times, and this was blatantly shown this summer, when they nearly destroyed the US boxoffice for the the Terminator franchise in their homeland.
I've heard of movies that were short of buried by critics. This worries me quite a bit.
FYI I was told by a local cinema manager that the distributors are taking up to 80% of the box office on the back of the success of SF. How the hell can cinemas keep going on that kind of return, with SF they took only 60% because QoS didn't do so well, the problem I foresee is that the cinemas won't keep SP on for as many weeks as they did SF thus the box office will be a lot less than SF.
So please encorage your friends to go see it and support local cinemas, they need it.
Here's a segment from Kermode's "Hatchet Job" in which he gives his reasons why critics don't have much bearing on how a film performs:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=marfAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq=mark+kermode+critics+don't+harm+box+office&source=bl&ots=ymQWz7CpBb&sig=xymtNtlJU227RYbVA2H4ZQvT4Kw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CE4Q6AEwB2oVChMIpM_G2JT1yAIVi10aCh0n1gsB#v=onepage&q=mark kermode critics don't harm box office&f=false
Told ya :-). This final theater count seems more like it. Almost 4,000 :-)!
Regarding the 'prediction' from Sony......they are, like other movie companies, always way more conservative with their predictions when it concerns their own productions :-). Interestingly though, Sony have actually raised their opening weekend predictions as compared to last week. BoxOffice.com was then mentioning $60 Million to $65 Million...from the 'mouths of Sony'.
PS @Mepal1: Please provide us with sources, weblinks. :-)
Are you sure?......i always thought in the US it was around 50% on opening weekend, then percentage would change in following weeks, due to how the film was doing!.....80% is well out of order.........film would need to do massive business, to make any real money back.
I assume that 80% deal is only for the UK? where the film was always going to be massive. And since it has done record breaking box office, everybody wins. With a near 3 hour sit time (including ads & trailers), it means a lot of popcorn and drinks get sold, and that's where the real money is for cinemas!
Don't know about the US but that's what I was told about in the UK, my local cinema was told they had to show it 3 times a day minimum as well which is their total capacity as they only have one screen, small independents are really being treated badly if this is the case everywhere.
It will hurt the 3rd week definitely. I'm sure of it. 1st and 2nd week are a lock due to the pent up demand post-SF and the fact that there's nothing out there to compete with it at the moment.
However by week 3 this film has to walk on its own. Of course people like myself and all the other rabid Bond fans will be back by then to see it again, but that's not going to be enough. Negative reviews will, by week 3, possibly impact the casual fan, who may or may not have gone to see it (and who may be influenced by the negative talk).
SF only fell 13% in weekend 3 box office which was insanely good. SP will probably have a more dramatic 3rd week drop. Having said that, as I mentioned a few pages back, if it makes enough in weeks 1 (I'm still betting it's $100m despite poor reviews) and week 2 (as long as it's a less than 55% drop) we should still have a slim shot at beating SF's US gross or possibly coming close to it (around $290m) due to ticket prices, IMAX and other factors.
Word of mouth and reviews do have a psychological effect. If a film is reviewed very positively, then people want to see it know what all the fuss is about (think 6th Sense or TDK or SF for example). If it's average to poor reviews there is less incentive on the margin. I remember lots of people who weren't Bond fans starting up conversations about SF in 2012. A lot were doing that about CR in 2006 as well, And Bourne in 2001. It became a watercooler thing. I'm sure the same occurred with JW this year.