SPECTRE: It grossed $880 Million Worldwide (..and 2015 was the biggest box office year so far)

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Comments

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Why is everyone so depressed? The film will be very profitable.
  • Why is everyone so depressed? The film will be very profitable.

    I don't understand it either. Perhaps 'they' focus too much on the results of the day, and are suffering a bit from 'comparison sickness', whereas I try to look at the long-term longevity of "SPECTRE" and how it competes with current films like "The Peanuts Movie" and "Hunger Games 4" :-). It makes me rather happy that "Hunger Games 4" falters completely in the USA and China :-P. Only good news for "SPECTRE" and its holdover right until December 18th. "SPECTRE" will now most certainly stay in the TOP 5 of US box office grosses right until December 18th, which looks a bit similar to the box office run of "The Martian".

  • bondjames wrote: »

    That is $4m (50%) less than QoS on the comparable day and $10m (approx 72%) less than SF, before adjusting for inflation.

    Isn't that due to QOS being released one week later than SP, so its day 15 was the Friday after Thanksgiving, which is a big day for moviegoing...? Whereas SP's day 15 is just a generic third weekend. At this point, many who haven't seen it will save it for Wed-Sun with friends and family.
    bondjames wrote: »
    The issue is more the loss of the higher price theatre locations (not just IMAX) and the other films in the mix. Not blockbusters necessarily but competition for adult viewers (who hold off until later weeks to see Bond....e.g. Creed, Secret in their Eyes, Spotlight) as well as families (Good Dinosaur could be huge). SP should pick up a little next weekend (Thanksgiving) but it won't have the best theatres, which SF did during the same time in 2012..

    I see only Creed as direct competition for the Bond audience (Including me - I can't wait!). Secret in their eyes just tanked, Spotlight is strictly a niche deal (gather the family and come spend the holidays learning about Catholic priest child molestation scandal?).
  • bondjames wrote: »

    That is $4m (50%) less than QoS on the comparable day and $10m (approx 72%) less than SF, before adjusting for inflation. Loss of the best theatres due to HG seems to have taken a toll on Friday. I hope it holds up well over Sat/Sun. The release schedule was always going to be a problem around this time.

    That Friday was the day after thanksgiving, so it´s not a fair comparison. Next week is going to be much better than Quantum´s.
    There is no reason to be depressed at all, but some people were expecting over 1 billion, so they may be a bit disappointed.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 725
    Why is everyone so depressed? The film will be very profitable.

    I don't understand it either. Perhaps 'they' focus too much on the results of the day, and are suffering a bit from 'comparison sickness', whereas I try to look at the long-term longevity of "SPECTRE" and how it competes with current films like "The Peanuts Movie" and "Hunger Games 4" :-). It makes me rather happy that "Hunger Games 4" falters completely in the USA and China :-P. Only good news for "SPECTRE" and its holdover right until December 18th. "SPECTRE" will now most certainly stay in the TOP 5 of US box office grosses right until December 18th, which looks a bit similar to the box office run of "The Martian".

    Thank you @Gustav_Graves for all of your SP postings and your research efforts to get at statistical info.

    As for the negative stuff posted, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but just maybe @bondjames, you might want to give it a pause. Anytime anyone on any SP thread posts something the least bit positive or optimistic about SP, we can always, always count on you to immediately post something to undercut the post and slam SP.

    It is obvious that mixed US reviews and the ER OS are impacting SP's BO, but holiday schedules and competition vary from year to year making comparisons very factually tricky. SP is about to go into the black, and it should hopefully get to near $900m with an outside chance that it could hit the magic $1 billion mark. The fact that THG is under performing can't hurt either. SP getting to $1b would be a major achievement given it had to overcome the unfavorable ER, mixed reviews and tons of whiny press articles that exploited the lousy Sony leaks.

  • Posts: 1,098
    From what i can judge at this moment..........it looks like SP's in China will end at $100 mil tops...............films burn out in China a lot faster than anywhere else, and only run for 4 weeks anyway.
    SP may hold on quite well for a while yet in the US, as next week i believe is the Thanksgiving holiday, and that should keep SP's grosses up.
    Comparing SP to QOS run is not logical, as QOS was released closer to Thanksgiving, hence the film was a lot more front loaded than SP...........and as someone pointed out you can't compare QOS's grosses to SP's on a week by week basis.
  • dinovelvet wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    That is $4m (50%) less than QoS on the comparable day and $10m (approx 72%) less than SF, before adjusting for inflation.

    Isn't that due to QOS being released one week later than SP, so its day 15 was the Friday after Thanksgiving, which is a big day for moviegoing...? Whereas SP's day 15 is just a generic third weekend. At this point, many who haven't seen it will save it for Wed-Sun with friends and family.

    Exactly. You can't just compare 'days' like that. It's useless, and in all honesty you should 'read' this day-to-day comparisons with a bigger overseeing eye, not to scrutinize every day into detail.

    So far to me "SPECTRE" is doing very well and seems en route to beat "Mission: Impossible - Rogue Nation", "The Martian" and "The Bourne Ultimatum easily.
  • Posts: 3,336
    Yes the billion mark will be a major achivement. Anyways SPECTRE will be the second highest bond movie after this weekend (unadjusted for inflation).

  • Posts: 1,098
    To give an idea of how quickly films drop in China..............SP's second weekend looks like it is going to be a drop of around 75%..........that's a big drop off........and actually thinking about it again SP may end up grossing between 90-100 mil in China.
    Still, its a noticeable improvement over SF, and with each subsequent Bond film being shown in China, its gets the public to understand the history of the franchise.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 11,119
    mepal1 wrote: »
    To give an idea of how quickly films drop in China..............SP's second weekend looks like it is going to be a drop of around 75%..........that's a big drop off........and actually thinking about it again SP may end up grossing between 90-100 mil in China.
    Still, its a noticeable improvement over SF, and with each subsequent Bond film being shown in China, its gets the public to understand the history of the franchise.

    Yes, but I hope you have calculated recent drops of other blockbuster films in China. "Rogue Nation" had an even bigger drop than "SPECTRE". And please, let's wait until tomorrow/Monday for the final estimates.
  • Posts: 1,098
    mepal1 wrote: »
    To give an idea of how quickly films drop in China..............SP's second weekend looks like it is going to be a drop of around 75%..........that's a big drop off........and actually thinking about it again SP may end up grossing between 90-100 mil in China.
    Still, its a noticeable improvement over SF, and with each subsequent Bond film being shown in China, its gets the public to understand the history of the franchise.

    Yes, but I hope you have calculated recent drops of other blockbuster films in China. "Rogue Nation" had an even bigger drop than "SPECTRE". And please, let's wait until tomorrow/Monday for the final estimates.

    I too hope it does much better...........i was just quoting from what Chinese BO followers
    have been stating, as they too have been comparing the run of SP against other similar films.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    dinovelvet wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    That is $4m (50%) less than QoS on the comparable day and $10m (approx 72%) less than SF, before adjusting for inflation.

    Isn't that due to QOS being released one week later than SP, so its day 15 was the Friday after Thanksgiving, which is a big day for moviegoing...? Whereas SP's day 15 is just a generic third weekend. At this point, many who haven't seen it will save it for Wed-Sun with friends and family.
    Yes, you're right. I checked the 3rd week gross but did not realize that we were comparing to the comparable QoS (and SF) Thanksgiving weekend. I am of course expecting a boost next Friday (as I said in my earlier post), but your guess is as good as mine as to where it will be.

    -$8m (100% increase from this Friday) will put it in line with QoS but in its 4th weekend vs that film's 3rd
    -$14m will put it in line with SF but again in that film's 3rd weekend
    dinovelvet wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    That is $4m (50%) less than QoS on the comparable day and $10m (approx 72%) less than SF, before adjusting for inflation.

    Isn't that due to QOS being released one week later than SP, so its day 15 was the Friday after Thanksgiving, which is a big day for moviegoing...? Whereas SP's day 15 is just a generic third weekend. At this point, many who haven't seen it will save it for Wed-Sun with friends and family.
    bondjames wrote: »
    The issue is more the loss of the higher price theatre locations (not just IMAX) and the other films in the mix. Not blockbusters necessarily but competition for adult viewers (who hold off until later weeks to see Bond....e.g. Creed, Secret in their Eyes, Spotlight) as well as families (Good Dinosaur could be huge). SP should pick up a little next weekend (Thanksgiving) but it won't have the best theatres, which SF did during the same time in 2012..

    I see only Creed as direct competition for the Bond audience (Including me - I can't wait!). Secret in their eyes just tanked, Spotlight is strictly a niche deal (gather the family and come spend the holidays learning about Catholic priest child molestation scandal?).
    I'm not suggesting that these are direct competition for SP. That's a given. These films won't make anything close to what SP will make. However, on the margin, they will take away some adult viewers who might have otherwise seen SP if they were not in the theatres, and every $ counts. I may have seen SP again one more time next weekend, but I'm going to see Secret in their Eyes instead (I've seen SP 3 times and caught the third viewing before it left IMAX).
    smitty wrote: »
    As for the negative stuff posted, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but just maybe @bondjames, you might want to give it a pause. Anytime anyone on any SP thread posts something the least bit positive or optimistic about SP, we can always, always count on you to immediately post something to undercut the post and slam SP.
    @smitty what nonsense are you talking about. I was accused a few weeks ago of being too optimistic in my first weekend expectations for SP. SP is currently a top 10 film of mine (ranked at 10). My current expectation is for around $950m total gross, $200m US gross and $100m China gross. I don't expect SP to top SF in the UK market, but it should come in second. How exactly is that negative? Sorry to hurt your sensitivities, but I call it like I see it, which is my right. If you have a problem with that, go take a rest, calm down and get a grip. You're talking nonsense. I don't mind criticism but make sense.

    Regarding comparing weekends, it is relevant to see the holdover. I just did not incorporate the Thanksgiving weekend since those films were released later in relation to that weekend and I missed that. Next weekend will be a test, but its drop off this weekend so far is due to it being removed from the higher priced theatres and from many IMAX theatres. That is also a fact.

    @mepal1, do you have any idea where SP is in relation to SF in UK gross for the similar number of weeks on the market (and I realize that SP had the full Monday to Friday run........what if we give it that head start)? I'm curious to see how it's tracking now, because it was looking to be very close when you last did an update a week ago. Also, do you know what the ticket price inflation is in the UK (SF vs SP)?
  • Posts: 725
    @bondjames, You have been so relentlessly negative in almost all of your posts, its just enough already. You have likely now added more posts in all of the SP threads than ALL of the positive posters comments combined. So sure, you have the right to say anything you want, anywhere, anytime, but your endless hectoring about SP is just getting really old. Anytime a poster notes something positive or optimistic in any SP thread, you are there immediately to bitch about something wrong. So, yeah, we get it, you were disappointed, as you've noted in it seems like 1,000 posts and counting.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    smitty wrote: »
    @bondjames, You have been so relentlessly negative in almost all of your posts, its just enough already. You have likely now added more posts in all of the SP threads than ALL of the positive posters comments combined. So sure, you have the right to say anything you want, anywhere, anytime, but your endless hectoring about SP is just getting really old. Anytime a poster notes something positive or optimistic in any SP thread, you are there immediately to bitch about something wrong. So, yeah, we get it, you were disappointed, as you've noted in it seems like 1,000 posts and counting.
    As I said, the film is a top 10 Bond film for me. I always make critical comments (either positive or negative). If you want to debate me on any one of the points I make, go right ahead and do it. Otherwise go sulk in a corner of the room. I haven't heard one peep from you in any of the discussion threads. You're welcome to disagree and make your counterargument. I note the positives, and the negatives. There are several negatives and I noted them. Next time I do, take me on and make a logical counterargument. It's better than some generic banter. This is a forum where everyone can make their views heard. I'm waiting for yours.

    Don't hold it all in and then explode like some passive aggressive cry baby. It's bad for your health.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 725
    This is my last comment on this. I enjoyed the film and just have gotten tired of reading your endlessly negative stuff and don't have the time or interest to argue "points." You state opinions, and cherry pick data that you consistently present as facts. I don't agree. I'm done.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    smitty wrote: »
    This is my last comment on this. I enjoyed the film and just have gotten tired of reading your endlessly negative stuff and don't have the time or interest to argue "points." You state opinions, and cherry pick data that you consistently present as facts. I don't agree. I'm done.
    What a silly comment. Nothing is 'fact' here. These are all opinions. That's probably where your problem comes from. This forum is all about 'opinions'. Mine as well as others. Don't get so worked up about it. I'm sorry my opinions are so offensive to you - I really wasn't aware of it until now. I almost always say it's my opinion. What else can it be? I'm not an arbiter of quality, just a 3rd party assessor, from my own viewpoint.

    Others are always welcome to put forth their own views, and many do. I just haven't seen much of it from you. Again, sorry to offend.....that was never my intention.
  • Posts: 1,098
    @bondjames.............i will come back to you, on the subject of SP's boxoffice performance in the UK.............as i have just asked the person who has been giving me the daily boxoffice for the film, for the latest update............but he posts that info at around 2am UK time.
    Anyway, it looks like from the last figures i saw that SP will be trailing SF after this weekend.

    After weekend 4 :- SF was at $131,5 mil ......... with a weekend take of $8.8 mil

    SP was somewhere around $122 mil as of end Thursday, and had a $1.5 mil Friday...........so i imagine SP's 4th weekend will be around $5-6 mil........therefore SP could be around $128 mil come end of Sunday.

    SP won't take the crown from SF now in the UK............but it stands a chance of beating 'Avatar', to get into 2nd place, but it will take, if possible to around Xmas/NY time to get to that point.

    Anyway, as of this week.........'Rentrak' the BO tracking service, announced that SP had officially become the 3rd highest grossing film at the UK box office (non-adjusted), when it sailed past that little boat, called the 'Titanic'.
  • Posts: 486
    mepal1 wrote: »
    SP won't take the crown from SF now in the UK............but it stands a chance of beating 'Avatar', to get into 2nd place, but it will take, if possible to around Xmas/NY time to get to that point.

    That's still pretty good, if it can be achieved. Any other film hoping to take the top place in the UK will need to assail not one but two Bond films.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Thx @mepal1. Well 2nd & 1st place with two consecutive Bond releases is excellent work and good marketing for the next one.

    Technically it may in fact surpass Avatar in ticket sales, because I assume that a lot of the UK gross for that film was in 3D (one thing I hope Bond never succumbs to).

    As you said, the strong US$ is not helping things. We discussed that earlier in the year, and it seems to be having an effect.
  • Posts: 486
    bondjames wrote: »
    Thx @mepal1. Well 2nd & 1st place with two consecutive Bond releases is excellent work and good marketing for the next one.

    Good marketing and hopefully good recruiting incentive too for the next writer and director.
  • Posts: 1,098
    bondjames wrote: »
    Thx @mepal1. Well 2nd & 1st place with two consecutive Bond releases is excellent work and good marketing for the next one.

    Technically it may in fact surpass Avatar in ticket sales, because I assume that a lot of the UK gross for that film was in 3D (one thing I hope Bond never succumbs to).

    As you said, the strong US$ is not helping things. We discussed that earlier in the year, and it seems to be having an effect.

    The strong dollar has had quite an impact on foreign box office.........just look at Russia as an example, but it is robbing the film of quite a few million in other territories as well.
    The UK isn't really that affected though, as the exchange rate now seems pretty much the same as it was in 2012, though again it was still more favourable in 2012.

    Anyway.........the exchange rates are killing all the Hollywood films at the present....MJ2 is going to lose a lot of potential earnings overseas.

    Yes......that's a good point Avatar's takings would of been nearly all 3D viewings, which was the point of seeing the film anyway..............therefore the film would of taken a higher gross per admission.


  • EndCredit007EndCredit007 EGYPT
    Posts: 114
    It is forbidden to criticize SP here, that's why I stopped my posts on this thread though my box office predictions seems accurate till now, the non optimistic prediction not welcomed here ..
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited November 2015 Posts: 4,116
    So y'all are praising China for seeing film and an estimated gross of $100 but lambasting America for possibly hitting $150 to $200 million? Doesn't China have a billion people there compared to 250 million in the US?

    Lay off North America ...give us a better film and we'll see it.

    I liked SP but it failed as a thriller/action film, failed as a love story and thanks to mishandling Blofeld failed as a Bond film in my mind.

    Yes I did like it but this is the first Bond film since DAD that I've been very disappointed with.

    Sorry I'm mad at all the negative against the US and mad at EON. We supported Bond all these years and yes I hate the catering to the NA market but all this is leaving me very disgusted.
  • mcdonbb wrote: »
    So y'all are praising China for seeing film and an estimated gross of $100 but lambasting America for possibly hitting $150 to $200 million? Doesn't China have a billion people there compared to 250 million in the US?

    Lay off North America ...give us a better film and we'll see it.

    I liked SP but it failed as a thriller/action film, failed as a love story and thanks to mishandling Blofeld failed as a Bond film in my mind.

    Yes I did like it but this is the first Bond film since DAD that I've been very disappointed with.

    Sorry I'm mad at all the negative against the US and mad at EON. We supported Bond all these years and yes I hate the catering to the NA market but all this is leaving me very disgusted.

    I think "SPECTRE" was a near-perfect Bond film. But what worries me is especially the fact that American critics are blasting the very Bond legacy. They hailed "Skyfall" because it moved away from typical Bond tropes. And with "SPECTRE" they completely u-turned because it had too many typical Bond elements.

    IMO I find that a bit ridiculous. And dangerous too. If we can't enjoy a Bond film for the very fact that it is a Bond film, then perhaps those same US critics indirectly say that the 53-year old Bond franchise is obsolete, extinct. Because that's how I read those criticis behind the lines.

    That's why I have become so....disgusted at many of those critics. And let me tell you this. It's not because you are those critics are American. But I do find it unfair. I'm sad that you were disappointed in the film. But I can't help that. I honestly believe that the SonyLeaks still hurt the film, especially in the USA. I have never seen such a discrepancy between US reviews on RottenTomatoes and non-US reviews. Negative publicity has really hurt the film in the US. I don't blaim you or other Americans for that. I blaim hackers for that.

    Trust me, if the SonyLeaks didn't happen, "SPECTRE" would now have had a rating of between 75% and 85% on RottenTomatoes. A full 10% lower than its predecessor. But 63%? Sorry....
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    So y'all are praising China for seeing film and an estimated gross of $100 but lambasting America for possibly hitting $150 to $200 million? Doesn't China have a billion people there compared to 250 million in the US?

    Lay off North America ...give us a better film and we'll see it.

    I liked SP but it failed as a thriller/action film, failed as a love story and thanks to mishandling Blofeld failed as a Bond film in my mind.

    Yes I did like it but this is the first Bond film since DAD that I've been very disappointed with.

    Sorry I'm mad at all the negative against the US and mad at EON. We supported Bond all these years and yes I hate the catering to the NA market but all this is leaving me very disgusted.

    I think "SPECTRE" was a near-perfect Bond film. But what worries me is especially the fact that American critics are blasting the very Bond legacy. They hailed "Skyfall" because it moved away from typical Bond tropes. And with "SPECTRE" they completely u-turned because it had too many typical Bond elements.

    IMO I find that a bit ridiculous. And dangerous too. If we can't enjoy a Bond film for the very fact that it is a Bond film, then perhaps those same US critics indirectly say that the 53-year old Bond franchise is obsolete, extinct. Because that's how I read those criticis behind the lines.

    That's why I have become so....disgusted at many of those critics. And let me tell you this. It's not because you are those critics are American. But I do find it unfair. I'm sad that you were disappointed in the film. But I can't help that. I honestly believe that the SonyLeaks still hurt the film, especially in the USA. I have never seen such a discrepancy between US reviews on RottenTomatoes and non-US reviews. Negative publicity has really hurt the film in the US. I don't blaim you or other Americans for that. I blaim hackers for that.

    Trust me, if the SonyLeaks didn't happen, "SPECTRE" would now have had a rating of between 75% and 85% on RottenTomatoes. A full 10% lower than its predecessor. But 63%? Sorry....
    Gustav_Graves, I personally don't disagree with a lot of their criticisms. For me (just my opinion I want to restate so I don't offend anyone as I apparently have been doing, unbeknownst to me before today) it is due to 'execution of the trope' element as opposed to actually having the trope.

    As an example, we just got a good laugh (and applause) in SF due to the DB5 trope and the ejector seat reference. We didn't need it again imho. We only recently had an intimate and revealing train conversation (CR). Maybe it was too soon for it again in SP?

    That's what I've said elsewhere. I didn't think they handled all the tropes (including the lair) as well as they could have done. If they had spent more time developing the film in the lair, then the escape and explosion might not have felt so 'forced'. For me at least (again my opinion for those reading), it did feel forced in this case.

    This is not a US hating thing at all. They have valid points in this case I think. The script was not well developed for many and that is the major beef.

    I agree that the rating is too low and have said that for some time. I think it should be closer to the audience rating (around 70% to 75%) personally.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    u
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    So y'all are praising China for seeing film and an estimated gross of $100 but lambasting America for possibly hitting $150 to $200 million? Doesn't China have a billion people there compared to 250 million in the US?

    Lay off North America ...give us a better film and we'll see it.

    I liked SP but it failed as a thriller/action film, failed as a love story and thanks to mishandling Blofeld failed as a Bond film in my mind.

    Yes I did like it but this is the first Bond film since DAD that I've been very disappointed with.

    Sorry I'm mad at all the negative against the US and mad at EON. We supported Bond all these years and yes I hate the catering to the NA market but all this is leaving me very disgusted.

    I think "SPECTRE" was a near-perfect Bond film. But what worries me is especially the fact that American critics are blasting the very Bond legacy. They hailed "Skyfall" because it moved away from typical Bond tropes. And with "SPECTRE" they completely u-turned because it had too many typical Bond elements.

    IMO I find that a bit ridiculous. And dangerous too. If we can't enjoy a Bond film for the very fact that it is a Bond film, then perhaps those same US critics indirectly say that the 53-year old Bond franchise is obsolete, extinct. Because that's how I read those criticis behind the lines.

    That's why I have become so....disgusted at many of those critics. And let me tell you this. It's not because you are those critics are American. But I do find it unfair. I'm sad that you were disappointed in the film. But I can't help that. I honestly believe that the SonyLeaks still hurt the film, especially in the USA. I have never seen such a discrepancy between US reviews on RottenTomatoes and non-US reviews. Negative publicity has really hurt the film in the US. I don't blaim you or other Americans for that. I blaim hackers for that.

    Trust me, if the SonyLeaks didn't happen, "SPECTRE" would now have had a rating of between 75% and 85% on RottenTomatoes. A full 10% lower than its predecessor. But 63%? Sorry....

    Yeah, SPECTRE deserved 75% minimum.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    So y'all are praising China for seeing film and an estimated gross of $100 but lambasting America for possibly hitting $150 to $200 million? Doesn't China have a billion people there compared to 250 million in the US?

    Lay off North America ...give us a better film and we'll see it.

    I liked SP but it failed as a thriller/action film, failed as a love story and thanks to mishandling Blofeld failed as a Bond film in my mind.

    Yes I did like it but this is the first Bond film since DAD that I've been very disappointed with.

    Sorry I'm mad at all the negative against the US and mad at EON. We supported Bond all these years and yes I hate the catering to the NA market but all this is leaving me very disgusted.

    I think "SPECTRE" was a near-perfect Bond film. But what worries me is especially the fact that American critics are blasting the very Bond legacy. They hailed "Skyfall" because it moved away from typical Bond tropes. And with "SPECTRE" they completely u-turned because it had too many typical Bond elements.

    IMO I find that a bit ridiculous. And dangerous too. If we can't enjoy a Bond film for the very fact that it is a Bond film, then perhaps those same US critics indirectly say that the 53-year old Bond franchise is obsolete, extinct. Because that's how I read those criticis behind the lines.

    That's why I have become so....disgusted at many of those critics. And let me tell you this. It's not because you are those critics are American. But I do find it unfair. I'm sad that you were disappointed in the film. But I can't help that. I honestly believe that the SonyLeaks still hurt the film, especially in the USA. I have never seen such a discrepancy between US reviews on RottenTomatoes and non-US reviews. Negative publicity has really hurt the film in the US. I don't blaim you or other Americans for that. I blaim hackers for that.

    Trust me, if the SonyLeaks didn't happen, "SPECTRE" would now have had a rating of between 75% and 85% on RottenTomatoes. A full 10% lower than its predecessor. But 63%? Sorry....
    Gustav_Graves, I personally don't disagree with a lot of their criticisms. For me (just my opinion I want to restate so I don't offend anyone as I apparently have been doing, unbeknownst to me before today) it is due to 'execution of the trope' element as opposed to actually having the trope.

    As an example, we just got a good laugh (and applause) in SF due to the DB5 trope and the ejector seat reference. We didn't need it again imho. We only recently had an intimate and revealing train conversation (CR). Maybe it was too soon for it again in SP?

    That's what I've said elsewhere. I didn't think they handled all the tropes (including the lair) as well as they could have done. If they had spent more time developing the film in the lair, then the escape and explosion might not have felt so 'forced'. For me at least (again my opinion for those reading), it did feel forced in this case.

    This is not a US hating thing at all. They have valid points in this case I think. The script was not well developed for many and that is the major beef.

    I agree that the rating is too low and have said that for some time. I think it should be closer to the audience rating (around 70% to 75%) personally.

    I agree with the last 5 sentences you wrote. "SPECTRE" deserved a higher rating on RT.

    But for the rest of your remark I already posted this:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/13775/has-mission-impossible-surpassed-bond/p8
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think here you are talking quite a lot of bullshit. I don't say it often, but it's really the bullshittiest kind of shit I've heard in a long time from you. And don't get me wrong. I have the greatest respect for your objectivity on the forum. But at times, it's not the actual choice of words that bothers me, but more the actual contents.

    One thing that EON Productions and especially co-producer Daniel Craig and the three director's Campbell/Forster/Mendes DID do right, was actually slowly re-introducing the, what you call in a rather negative way, the "Bond tropes/legacy". Over a course of four films we got a tremendous quadrilogy in which we saw James Bond develop from an -indeed- Jason Bourne-esque blunt instrument in the James Bond we all know, we all care for. To say that the creative minds behind these four Bond films were "hung up in this Bond homage world" is actually completely pissing on the entire 53-year old Bond legacy.

    And sorry guys, WTF do we expect from Bond now!? I personally think we have been expecting so much from Bond that it actually "hurts" the franchise. Not because the creative minds make good or bad decisions, but simply because WE fans at times stop being fans. We have become a bunch of fingerpointing and comparison-sickness suffering whiners. I remember a couple of months ago that some forummembers in here actually wanted a return to the "Good old Bond of the old". And now you @BondJames actually want the "Return to the simplicity of a stripped down, Jason Bourne-esque Bond".

    Having said that, NOTHING is good anymore for a Bond film. NOTHING actually works anymore. And if some of those creative minds behind the Bond franchise actually listeng to 'all those lone narcist voices in the desert of social media', and all their disagreements, then THAT'S when you get a bad Bond film.

    For me personally I greatly cherish the Craig-Quadrilogy. And a worthy unique quadrilogy it is man! James Bond is a true character now, with an incredible amount of (personal) history under his belt. THAT'S what EON Productions was thinking! It is NOT Jason Bourne, the guy who stayed everytime the same blunt, negative-looking rogue agent. It is NOT Ethan Hunt, who loves the action, but who can not shed one believable. credible tear. It is agent 007, James Bond, the guy who lost quite a lot of people close to him. Whose story captivated me entirely over a course of four films. Now can the man, finally have a bit more...fun again in his '4th' film "SPECTRE"? It's James Bond for God sake.

    Over the course of 53 years and 24 films we have seen cold war-esque spy thrillers from the franchise, more cheesy comedic action films, intense Mendes-esque drama and God knows how damn logical it is to have so much variation in this franchise, both in tone and style.

    A Bond fan embraces that variation, doesn't slam each film, slightly different than its predecessors, with negative criticism that one could have already seen practised entirely during one of those predecessing films. I said it many times before, the fact that the Bond franchise is 53 years old, always makes it prone to much more comparisons and criticism. But against EACH negative amount of criticism, which can certainly be used for future improvement, there should be some positive criticism as well.....some stuff that we should maintain.

    Sorry @BondJames, it's off course your opinion. But I do think at times your negativity becomes annoying. Because it isn't that objective either anymore...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    @Gustav_Graves, sorry to offend you as well it seems. I stand by my views on the trope use in SP. For me, it wasn't the trope per-se, but rather the way it was executed that wasn't ideal. It seemed 'forced' to me, and apparently to some others, and that imho,. is why the film is being criticized in some quarters. These could have been done better, and perhaps they have to be done better, since expectations have increased due to the critical and commercial success of SF and CR.

    Yes, I do want a return to a 'dark, stripped down thriller'. That really is my preference. I think it suits Daniel Craig the actor more (as proven to me in CR/QoS/SF and even TGWTDT- not necessarily Bourne) and I would like him to do one more like that before he leaves the role. That is where/when I find him as an actor to be most effective.

    I didn't realize that this forum and thread was only for those who want to espouse the positives of SP. I like elements of it (enough to have it at #10 out of 24....just) but I also think there could be lots of creative improvements made. I think a lot of members and viewers feel this way, and of course, others like yourself may think it's great, which is your right.

    The one thing you'll never see me do here is shit on your opinion or call it 'bullshit' or say that you are being too negative or positive. You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine. Every other member is entitled to theirs. There's no need for name calling or abuse.

    As I said earlier, all it is at the end of the day, is someone's opinion and a discussion of various opinions, hopefully in a civil, and not abusive fashion, due to disagreements in this area.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    @Gustav_Graves, sorry to offend you as well it seems. I stand by my views on the trope use in SP. For me, it wasn't the trope per-se, but rather the way it was executed that wasn't ideal. It seemed 'forced' to me, and apparently to some others, and that imho,. is why the film is being criticized in some quarters. These could have been done better, and perhaps they have to be done better, since expectations have increased due to the critical and commercial success of SF and CR.

    Yes, I do want a return to a 'dark, stripped down thriller'. That really is my preference. I think it suits Daniel Craig the actor more (as proven to me in CR/QoS/SF and even TGWTDT- not necessarily Bourne) and I would like him to do one more like that before he leaves the role. That is where/when I find him as an actor to be most effective.

    I didn't realize that this forum and thread was only for those who want to espouse the positives of SP. I like elements of it (enough to have it at #10 out of 24....just) but I also think there could be lots of creative improvements made. I think a lot of members and viewers feel this way, and of course, others like yourself may think it's great, which is your right.

    The one thing you'll never see me do here is shit on your opinion or call it 'bullshit' or say that you are being too negative or positive. You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine. Every other member is entitled to theirs. There's no need for name calling or abuse.

    As I said earlier, at the end of the day, all it is, is an opinion.

    The thing is...you use your negativity 'at will' really. In the case of "SPECTRE" you basically say that Craig's grittier personae suited him better in "SKYFALL". But when we solely talk about "SKYFALL" you use other comments/criticism to enhance the flaws of that film. Perhaps you would even say something like this "What worked so well in SP was the humour, and the Bond producers should have applied that aspect a bit earlier on. Perhaps already in "SKYFALL" "

    And that's exactly the thing that annoys me a bit sometimes. Obviously you have your own opinion. And we live in a free world @BondJames. And if there's one thing for which I admire you, than it's your neat vocabulary you use in hear. Hell, even I can learn from that. But it times, I think your criticism may sound objective, but instead it falters in having too much subjective content, that at times you use at will.

    If you are really such an...objective person, then you make a list of pro's and con's for every film we're discussing about in here...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Gustav_Graves, sorry to offend you as well it seems. I stand by my views on the trope use in SP. For me, it wasn't the trope per-se, but rather the way it was executed that wasn't ideal. It seemed 'forced' to me, and apparently to some others, and that imho,. is why the film is being criticized in some quarters. These could have been done better, and perhaps they have to be done better, since expectations have increased due to the critical and commercial success of SF and CR.

    Yes, I do want a return to a 'dark, stripped down thriller'. That really is my preference. I think it suits Daniel Craig the actor more (as proven to me in CR/QoS/SF and even TGWTDT- not necessarily Bourne) and I would like him to do one more like that before he leaves the role. That is where/when I find him as an actor to be most effective.

    I didn't realize that this forum and thread was only for those who want to espouse the positives of SP. I like elements of it (enough to have it at #10 out of 24....just) but I also think there could be lots of creative improvements made. I think a lot of members and viewers feel this way, and of course, others like yourself may think it's great, which is your right.

    The one thing you'll never see me do here is shit on your opinion or call it 'bullshit' or say that you are being too negative or positive. You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine. Every other member is entitled to theirs. There's no need for name calling or abuse.

    As I said earlier, at the end of the day, all it is, is an opinion.

    The thing is...you use your negativity 'at will' really. In the case of "SPECTRE" you basically say that Craig's grittier personae suited him better in "SKYFALL". But when we solely talk about "SKYFALL" you use other comments/criticism to enhance the flaws of that film. Perhaps you would even say something like this "What worked so well in SP was the humour, and the Bond producers should have applied that aspect a bit earlier on. Perhaps already in "SKYFALL" "

    And that's exactly the thing that annoys me a bit sometimes. Obviously you have your own opinion. And we live in a free world @BondJames. And if there's one thing for which I admire you, than it's your neat vocabulary you use in hear. Hell, even I can learn from that. But it times, I think your criticism may sound objective, but instead it falters in having too much subjective content, that at times you use at will.

    If you are really such an...objective person, then you make a list of pro's and con's for every film we're discussing about in here...

    Did I say I was objective? I really don't know what you're talking about. I nearly always say it's my opinion. What do you think we're doing on here if not expressing an opinion. For pete's sake, I really haven't got a clue what you're crying over.

    You are making this very personal for some reason. If you want to do that, I can be just as nasty, but I'd prefer not to be.

    If you have a view on a film, just say your point and if people agree with you, they will, and if they don't, they won't. What's the big deal anyway. I don't get it.

    My comments and discussion are nuanced because that's how I think. Nothing is absolute for me. Everything has context. I am open to changing my opinion and have done on several occasions due to the good discussion with members here.

    Regarding my criticisms of SF. What exactly are you talking about? Be specific because I haven't got a clue?

    And what are you saying about my language? Do you want me to change the way I communicate? Be more confrontational & abusive even, the way you appear to be towards me? It's not my style.
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