SPECTRE: It grossed $880 Million Worldwide (..and 2015 was the biggest box office year so far)

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  • bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don't think Mendes has a great sense of what works in terms of action. None of the action in either SF or SP is top notch, apart from perhaps the train fight.
    There does appear to be a tendency by Mendes to give action 'lip service' in both SP & SF. It's not as well integrated as I would like. As if it's a bother to him and not his main focus. It worked better in SF because it was a psychological thriller. SP is more action oriented (traditional Bond, if you will) and so the action had to be exceptional....at least in my view. That is where a film like TND shines, because Spottiswoode focused on it.

    That's not the problem (though it's another set of negative criticism from you). I think the action is perfectly incorporated. The point really is, that people were expecting rougher-edged action from SP. A bit more like QOS, but then better edited, with slightly more long-distance angles. A bit like...."Ronin".

    That's something we didn't get. The action was way more Roger Moore-ish (think the helicopter chasing the car in TSWLM and the car chase from FYEO). And less Brückheimer-like. That doesn't mean it was bad incorporated.

    Frankly, I find that argument bullocks. Like in GF, TSWLM, TLD and TND Bond again had a car with him. So in all these films Bond tried to get away with the gadget-laden car from the villain. The build-up is actually very similar to those films. So blaming Mendes for not incorporating the action in the story is bullocks.
    I disagree. The action, apart from the visceral train fight, didn't connect with me. Sorry. I can accept it and watch it in the context of the film (understanding that this might have been the creative vision), but like the action in TWINE, it seemed tacked on and frankly wasn't all that thrilling for me.

    PS: Whether you find the argument bollocks or not is not the point. It's an argument, and a view from a member that you shouldn't disrespect, as you've been doing on here of late.

    I am sorry for that. I can't help it either that I feel annoyed lately when you are giving your arguments. It's just so....negative. And everything you come up with negative arguments from a different perspective.

    Then again, I agree with you that we should be more civilized. Especially me. I hope I don't make you feel....bad :-(. Maybe it is better if we ignore each other's arguments a bit or that we're not directly quoting each other. You are a nice girl.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Mendes's action sequences have been mainly lame. But I still enjoyed SP.

    How we miss John Glen's genius for action.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don't think Mendes has a great sense of what works in terms of action. None of the action in either SF or SP is top notch, apart from perhaps the train fight.
    There does appear to be a tendency by Mendes to give action 'lip service' in both SP & SF. It's not as well integrated as I would like. As if it's a bother to him and not his main focus. It worked better in SF because it was a psychological thriller. SP is more action oriented (traditional Bond, if you will) and so the action had to be exceptional....at least in my view. That is where a film like TND shines, because Spottiswoode focused on it.

    That's not the problem (though it's another set of negative criticism from you). I think the action is perfectly incorporated. The point really is, that people were expecting rougher-edged action from SP. A bit more like QOS, but then better edited, with slightly more long-distance angles. A bit like...."Ronin".

    That's something we didn't get. The action was way more Roger Moore-ish (think the helicopter chasing the car in TSWLM and the car chase from FYEO). And less Brückheimer-like. That doesn't mean it was bad incorporated.

    Frankly, I find that argument bullocks. Like in GF, TSWLM, TLD and TND Bond again had a car with him. So in all these films Bond tried to get away with the gadget-laden car from the villain. The build-up is actually very similar to those films. So blaming Mendes for not incorporating the action in the story is bullocks.
    I disagree. The action, apart from the visceral train fight, didn't connect with me. Sorry. I can accept it and watch it in the context of the film (understanding that this might have been the creative vision), but like the action in TWINE, it seemed tacked on and frankly wasn't all that thrilling for me.

    PS: Whether you find the argument bollocks or not is not the point. It's an argument, and a view from a member that you shouldn't disrespect, as you've been doing on here of late.

    I am sorry for that. I can't help it either that I feel annoyed lately when you are giving your arguments. It's just so....negative. And everything you come up with negative arguments from a different perspective.

    Then again, I agree with you that we should be more civilized. Especially me. I hope I don't make you feel....bad :-(. Maybe it is better if we ignore each other's arguments a bit or that we're not directly quoting each other. You are a nice girl.
    I'll take that as a rare compliment.

    I understand that you don't agree with my views on SP. That's fine. I may not agree with yours all the time. However, I don't call you out on it and have a go at you because I believe you're entitled to your views. Even if I may not agree with it, I read it and I learn something......from every member here. I don't take anything you say personally though. Life's too short.

    If Mendes had made a film that was better for me, my views on it would have been more positive. He didn't. That's all. It happens. I still enjoyed the film.....I enjoy many things that I am critical of. If we are going to critically dissect on here, which is what we do, then I will voice my views. Some films have more to be critical of, and some have less to be critical of. It's all opinion at the end of the day. What's key for me is how the point is presented and what substantiating points are given. Sometimes there is none.......I may just not like something, or I may just love it. It's all good.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Sorry, did I miss something. Ate you actually female @bondjames or did I miss some in-joke?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    Sorry, did I miss something. Ate you actually female @bondjames or did I miss some in-joke?
    No, definitely 100% male, at least as far as I've been told by parties that count.

    I was playing off of Gustav's comment, which I assume was made in jest......I hope.

    Perhaps I should be female and I'd be given a little more slack by some.....never hit a girl and all that jazz.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited November 2015 Posts: 4,116
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Sorry, did I miss something. Ate you actually female @bondjames or did I miss some in-joke?
    No, definitely 100% male, at least as far as I've been told by parties that count.

    I was playing off of Gustav's comment, which I assume was made in jest......I hope.

    Perhaps I should be female and I'd be given a little more slack by some.....never hit a girl and all that jazz.

    I think next time I check the forum I need to scroll back to get the history. :-t
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Here's the video giving a run through of the whole sequence for those that haven't seen it:



    I didn't know until I saw this a few weeks back that it was indeed real, which brings about a question of great importance: why the hell did they spend so much money on it when they could have just used effects and miniatures? I get wanting to have a world record honor and everything like that, but when the budget was already soaring, was throwing more money at this sequence really a sound investment?

    I think EON, Mendes and co. really expected this to blow people away in the theaters the way the DB5 reveal and the subway crash did, but I just wasn't mesmerized. Honestly, how many explosions have we seen now in this modern moviemaking period of ours with blockbusters out the wazoo? In a regular year we now see upwards of one hundred plus explosions through trailers, TV spots, behind the scenes featurettes and our own cinema-going experiences, so really, what's another explosion on the pile? I know it's Bond and it should be more special than the rest, but it just doesn't feel this way. Does anyone else reciprocate these feelings?

    Well said. I don't really care for explosions much. It's become so standard and can be found everywhere to the point Id be genuinely surprised if people find wonderment and awe in such an effect. The only way an explosion would have an impact is if a loved character the audience is heavily invested in gets trapped and caught in an explosion, naturally being killed in the process, that would work but other than that I just don't care for them to the point a studio needs to impress the masses by investing millions into an effect that frankly could have been achieved more creatively and at a cheaper cost. This is what happens when you have more money than sense. World record for the largest explosion? Great. Meanwhile, the producers and the execs are wondering why the film has to make more than half a billion just to break even and why the film itself isn't doing SF numbers.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Mendes is a bit of an idiot in the action department. He just doesn't understand it or what works. And he doesn't understand what makes Bond action special.

    I don't think Bond movies need to have such huge budgets. It actually makes the directors lazy. I think QoS sufferered from the same issues. Too much pointless location hopping and OTT action sequences. Look at LTK - one of the tightest budgets in the series but the action is wonderful.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    They should have had Blofeld blowing up Big Ben instead. That way. people would have cared.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think calling Mendes an idiot is a bit too harsh on the guy in this particular regard. Considering what his strengths are and that these Bond movies really are him stepping outside his comfort zone, I think he's done an ok job but still, with his intelligence and the people around him, not to mention that modern climate of action seen in some of the best action movies and TV shows currently, you'd expect something a lot more dynamic from him. They hired Olivier Schneider to choreograph the fights for SP and they completely wasted his talents! Imagine what someone like Campbell would have done for the train fight (as good as it was).
  • Posts: 11,425
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I think calling Mendes an idiot is a bit too harsh on the guy in this particular regard. Considering what his strengths are and that these Bond movies really are him stepping outside his comfort zone, I think he's done an ok job but still, with his intelligence and the people around him, not to mention that modern climate of action seen in some of the best action movies and TV shows currently, you'd expect something a lot more dynamic from him. They hired Olivier Schneider to choreograph the fights for SP and they completely wasted his talents! Imagine what someone like Campbell would have done for the train fight (as good as it was).

    Hmmm. I loved the train fight personally. That is the action highlight of the whole Mendes era. I cannot think of anything else Mendes has done in the action department that comes close.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    True but considering the fight itself and it's participants, seeing a bloodied and bruised Bond would have really added to the altercation. Instead, all we got was a sweaty-looking Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Some of the best scenes in the Craig era are the post fight sequences imho. When he looks at the mirror and cleans off blood or contemplates his crazy career choice (CR/QoS). Even SF had that moment when he's wondering what the hell he's doing with that bullet in him from Patrice. They all sort of lend to his human characterization of Bond.

    I would have preferred just a small insertion here and there in SP to remind us that he's not superhuman, and post-thrashing from Hinx would have been the best place. They did a good job in TSWLM with that brief scene where Anya checks out Bond's shoulder wound before they decide to attend to more pressing (ahem..) matters, and this scene was probably calling for something like that too, at least imho.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don't think Mendes has a great sense of what works in terms of action. None of the action in either SF or SP is top notch, apart from perhaps the train fight.
    There does appear to be a tendency by Mendes to give action 'lip service' in both SP & SF. It's not as well integrated as I would like. As if it's a bother to him and not his main focus. It worked better in SF because it was a psychological thriller. SP is more action oriented (traditional Bond, if you will) and so the action had to be exceptional....at least in my view. That is where a film like TND shines, because Spottiswoode focused on it.

    That's not the problem (though it's another set of negative criticism from you). I think the action is perfectly incorporated. The point really is, that people were expecting rougher-edged action from SP. A bit more like QOS, but then better edited, with slightly more long-distance angles. A bit like...."Ronin".

    That's something we didn't get. The action was way more Roger Moore-ish (think the helicopter chasing the car in TSWLM and the car chase from FYEO). And less Brückheimer-like. That doesn't mean it was bad incorporated.

    Frankly, I find that argument bullocks. Like in GF, TSWLM, TLD and TND Bond again had a car with him. So in all these films Bond tried to get away with the gadget-laden car from the villain. The build-up is actually very similar to those films. So blaming Mendes for not incorporating the action in the story is bullocks.
    I disagree. The action, apart from the visceral train fight, didn't connect with me. Sorry. I can accept it and watch it in the context of the film (understanding that this might have been the creative vision), but like the action in TWINE, it seemed tacked on and frankly wasn't all that thrilling for me.

    PS: Whether you find the argument bollocks or not is not the point. It's an argument, and a view from a member that you shouldn't disrespect, as you've been doing on here of late.

    I am sorry for that. I can't help it either that I feel annoyed lately when you are giving your arguments. It's just so....negative. And everything you come up with negative arguments from a different perspective.

    Then again, I agree with you that we should be more civilized. Especially me. I hope I don't make you feel....bad :-(. Maybe it is better if we ignore each other's arguments a bit or that we're not directly quoting each other. You are a nice girl.
    I'll take that as a rare compliment.

    I understand that you don't agree with my views on SP. That's fine. I may not agree with yours all the time. However, I don't call you out on it and have a go at you because I believe you're entitled to your views. Even if I may not agree with it, I read it and I learn something......from every member here. I don't take anything you say personally though. Life's too short.

    If Mendes had made a film that was better for me, my views on it would have been more positive. He didn't. That's all. It happens. I still enjoyed the film.....I enjoy many things that I am critical of. If we are going to critically dissect on here, which is what we do, then I will voice my views. Some films have more to be critical of, and some have less to be critical of. It's all opinion at the end of the day. What's key for me is how the point is presented and what substantiating points are given. Sometimes there is none.......I may just not like something, or I may just love it. It's all good.

    I always thought you were a male. But I recall that this week or last week in here, through a post, you were actually female. So I was a bit confused. Sorry. Male it is.
  • Posts: 203
    I have to agree with @Getafix here. Mendes is channel-ling his inner 10 year old (as he himself stated) with a $250 budget. Why EON or the veterans involved did not interfere here is anybody's guess. Maybe the success of SP went to his head.

    I have no idea why EON waited three years to make a sub par action movie with Mendes (DC might be to blame for this as well). Look at Mendes laughing and excited, i think he thought this films success is a sure thing.

    I really hope we get one more film from DC with a new, younger and edgier director.

  • Posts: 486
    They did the explosion for real, just like they used to pride themselves on doing everything for real before they jumped the shark with the GE PTS.

    Didn't Chris Corbould once say the TWINE explosion was the biggest he'd done? I expect it's Corbould's own wish to better his previous work than any arrogance on Mendes's part.

    That said, I still find the most viscerally satisfying explosion from Corbould's remains Skyfall lodge.



  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Cowley wrote: »
    That said, I still find the most viscerally satisfying explosion from Corbould's remains Skyfall lodge.
    I would agree, and although I'm no expert on this, I think it's possibly because of the use of digital cameras by Deakins. It really increased the contrast / sharpness for night shooting. I think those scenes were much sharper / more vibrant due to the switch to digital.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,581
    bondjames wrote: »
    Some of the best scenes in the Craig era are the post fight sequences imho. When he looks at the mirror and cleans off blood or contemplates his crazy career choice (CR/QoS). Even SF had that moment when he's wondering what the hell he's doing with that bullet in him from Patrice. They all sort of lend to his human characterization of Bond.

    I would have preferred just a small insertion here and there in SP to remind us that he's not superhuman, and post-thrashing from Hinx would have been the best place. They did a good job in TSWLM with that brief scene where Anya checks out Bond's shoulder wound before they decide to attend to more pressing (ahem..) matters, and this scene was probably calling for something like that too, at least imho.

    I couldn't agree more. The scene after the train fight was the only one that I hated.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited November 2015 Posts: 28,694
    bondjames wrote: »
    Some of the best scenes in the Craig era are the post fight sequences imho. When he looks at the mirror and cleans off blood or contemplates his crazy career choice (CR/QoS). Even SF had that moment when he's wondering what the hell he's doing with that bullet in him from Patrice. They all sort of lend to his human characterization of Bond.

    I would have preferred just a small insertion here and there in SP to remind us that he's not superhuman, and post-thrashing from Hinx would have been the best place. They did a good job in TSWLM with that brief scene where Anya checks out Bond's shoulder wound before they decide to attend to more pressing (ahem..) matters, and this scene was probably calling for something like that too, at least imho.

    I couldn't agree more. The scene after the train fight was the only one that I hated.

    The big issue I find with that scene is how easily Madeleine falls into Bond's arms, and in such a predictable fashion. Their romance could work, it just needs time to properly develop, which I feel it hadn't on my first viewing.

    I get that the pair were full of adrenaline and thankful for each other's help in surviving Hinx, but Madeleine not ten/fifteen minutes before said to Bond that her body was not his Wonderland, which made their love making feel slightly artificial. It just felt cheap and like what every Bond girl does; says no, no, no to him one moment before falling into his arms the next.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    To be fair, many women have no clue what the hell they want. There have been many a situation since the dawn of time where they don't want to be touched and minutes later they're lambasting you for not touching them. A woman's mental disposition can be infuriatingly chaotic.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    doubleoego wrote: »
    To be fair, many women have no clue what the hell they want. There have been many a situation since the dawn of time where they don't want to be touched and minutes later they're lambasting you for not touching them. A woman's mental disposition can be infuriatingly chaotic.

    Bingo. Love the ensuing scene after the train fight personally.
  • Posts: 613
    doubleoego wrote: »
    To be fair, many women have no clue what the hell they want. There have been many a situation since the dawn of time where they don't want to be touched and minutes later they're lambasting you for not touching them. A woman's mental disposition can be infuriatingly chaotic.

    Can't live with them, can't live without them .
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    doubleoego wrote: »
    To be fair, many women have no clue what the hell they want. There have been many a situation since the dawn of time where they don't want to be touched and minutes later they're lambasting you for not touching them. A woman's mental disposition can be infuriatingly chaotic.

    You're one your own with this one, mate. Just consider yourself lucky that the female population on this forum is in the minority, otherwise you might find yourself in more than a little spot of trouble. ;)
  • Posts: 1,068
    "women, you can't live with them and you can't kill them"
    A line that's always stuck with me from True Lies
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,964
    ...I liked the explosion and was wildly impressed by it. :(

    *shrugs shoulders*
  • Er...perhaps we should steer this conversation back to box office!

    Sooooo....$850 million worldwide looks like a lock, as does Spectre passing Avatar in the UK.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,399
    .
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,399
    .
  • edited December 2015 Posts: 11,119
    Germanlady wrote: »

    Great article @Germanlady. I especially like this quote:
    ...and a surprising round of some slagging reviews preceded its November 6th North American launch. (It opened in the UK and some other nations a week earlier.)

    But surveys of actual film-going audiences gave high ratings to the film -- which, on balance, is terrific though not as good as Skyfall -- and Spectre has proved to be another huge hit


    And this one (and it shatters my feelings that in this forum Craig's portrayal as Bond in "SPECTRE" is barely...looked upon!):
    In Spectre, Craig's rather tortured take on the role, while retaining the grit of the actor's canny interpretation of Ian Fleming's literary conception, relaxes a bit into a suaver sort of self-confidence. He even exhibits a newfound compassion and sense of proportion.
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