'Neither Seen Nor Heard - The Role of Children in the James Bond Films'

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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Another one is the two boys who chillingly fight with swords in TMWTGG also, until the one kills the other at the Hai Fat Karate School. Quite chilling, that one, at least for me.

    Yes. And somewhat reminiscent of Tiger's ninja training school in Fleming's YOLT. Remember the young ninja who fell to his death while attempting to scale a wall for Tiger and Bond's delectation?

    Yes, vaguely. This may have been the inspiration, then.

    Plus, another little mention of children comes very poignantly at the end of OHMSS with Tracy Bond's line 'First a boy and then a girl.' And then she is murdered. The saddest children reference of them all in the Bond films. I do think so.

    Yes indeed. My favourite ending to any Bond book and film of all time. Quite simply sublime.

    Indeed.
  • Posts: 2,483
    Then there's the children's chorus in "Do You Know How Christmas Trees Are Grown?"
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Then there's the children's chorus in "Do You Know How Christmas Trees Are Grown?"

    Yes, I had thought of that one myself. We seem to be raking up quite a few references here.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Then there's the children's chorus in "Do You Know How Christmas Trees Are Grown?"

    Ah yes. Well done sir
    =D>
  • Posts: 6,396

    Fantastic. Thanks for posting :-)
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 2,483

    Fantastic. Thanks for posting :-)

    A snippet from a United Kingdom that no longer exists. I'm not even a Brit but that video sometimes brings a lump to my throat.

  • edited August 2013 Posts: 2,015
    Ludovico wrote:
    About the OP, I think it is a fascinating topic. Why is there barely any children in Bond movies? I have an hypothesis: it would age Bond, make him mortal, so to speak.

    Also, each time you have Bond chasing someone or being chased, having childs in the crowd would make the scene go from unrealistic to blatantly unrealistic. The passerbys who avoid him or avoid the villain are always fit, adult people (= stuntmen and stuntwomen). No overweight people who can't jump two meters at the last second, no kid who would stay still in front of the car, stuck by fear. Also, the director want "nice people" sometimes anyway : can you spot an overweight person , an elder people, or a kid in the crowd at the horse race in QOS for instance ?

    In TLD opening, Remy Julienne's son who drives the white car that faces the Land Rover, has a child in the backseat. But all the passerbys who jump to avoid the Land Rover are fit adults (and one even jumps to his death :) ).

    I've already wrote about this scene about five times here I think but anyway : in the French Alain Delon movie "Trois Hommes à Abattre", there is a chase that's basically as unrealistic as the other movie chases, but the end is a bit different :

    It starts like a joke (the "slow down because of our kids" sign)

    939170vlcsnap2013080221h24m15s70.png

    but then just after the bad guys car

    757572vlcsnap2013080221h25m15s222.png

    oh oh

    324131vlcsnap2013080221h25m59s143.png

    the hero has to stop and let the bad guys escape

    822848vlcsnap2013080221h26m10s10.png

    Then the hero and the kid paralyzed by fear look at one another for a moment, the hero has just let the killers of his best friend escape, but he can't show any bad feelings.

    Nowadays it would be a reminder there's no way you can be a "responsible driver" in action movies, not sure they would dare to do such things.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Ludovico wrote:
    About the OP, I think it is a fascinating topic. Why is there barely any children in Bond movies? I have an hypothesis: it would age Bond, make him mortal, so to speak.

    Also, each time you have Bond chasing someone or being chased, having childs in the crowd would make the scene go from unrealistic to blatantly unrealistic. The passerbys who avoid him or avoid the villain are always fit, adult people (= stuntmen and stuntwomen). No overweight people who can't jump two meters at the last second, no kid who would stay still in front of the car, stuck by fear. Also, the director want "nice people" sometimes anyway : can you spot an overweight person , an elder people, or a kid in the crowd at the horse race in QOS for instance ?

    In TLD opening, Remy Julienne's son who drives the white car that faces the Land Rover, has a child in the backseat. But all the passerbys who jump to avoid the Land Rover are fit adults (and one even jumps to his death :) ).

    I've already wrote about this scene about five times here I think but anyway : in the French Alain Delon movie "Trois Hommes à Abattre", there is a chase that's basically as unrealistic as the other movie chases, but the end is a bit different :

    It starts like a joke (the "slow down because of our kids" sign)

    939170vlcsnap2013080221h24m15s70.png

    but then just after the bad guys car

    757572vlcsnap2013080221h25m15s222.png

    oh oh

    324131vlcsnap2013080221h25m59s143.png

    the hero has to stop and let the bad guys escape

    822848vlcsnap2013080221h26m10s10.png

    Then the hero and the kid paralyzed by fear look at one another for a moment, the hero has just let the killers of his best friend escape, but he can't show any bad feelings.

    Nowadays it would be a reminder there's no way you can be a "responsible driver" in action movies, not sure they would dare to do such things.

    Very interesting, thanks for that. Yes, I too had thought of the family in that TLD PTS scene, though I didn't realise a stunt driver was at the wheel of that white car. Well spotted!
  • Posts: 15,116
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Then there's the children's chorus in "Do You Know How Christmas Trees Are Grown?"

    Yes, I had thought of that one myself. We seem to be raking up quite a few references here.

    Gosh I love that song. So perfectly placed in the movie too.

    And there are also mentions of Bond's childhood in CR and SF of course.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Then there's the children's chorus in "Do You Know How Christmas Trees Are Grown?"

    Yes, I had thought of that one myself. We seem to be raking up quite a few references here.

    Gosh I love that song. So perfectly placed in the movie too.

    And there are also mentions of Bond's childhood in CR and SF of course.

    True. Something of an origin story for James Bond, to be sure. Also there are mentions of Bond's childhood in the original Fleming Bond novels, namely LALD, OHMSS and YOLT.
  • Posts: 15,116
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    About the OP, I think it is a fascinating topic. Why is there barely any children in Bond movies? I have an hypothesis: it would age Bond, make him mortal, so to speak.

    Also, each time you have Bond chasing someone or being chased, having childs in the crowd would make the scene go from unrealistic to blatantly unrealistic. The passerbys who avoid him or avoid the villain are always fit, adult people (= stuntmen and stuntwomen). No overweight people who can't jump two meters at the last second, no kid who would stay still in front of the car, stuck by fear. Also, the director want "nice people" sometimes anyway : can you spot an overweight person , an elder people, or a kid in the crowd at the horse race in QOS for instance ?

    In TLD opening, Remy Julienne's son who drives the white car that faces the Land Rover, has a child in the backseat. But all the passerbys who jump to avoid the Land Rover are fit adults (and one even jumps to his death :) ).

    I've already wrote about this scene about five times here I think but anyway : in the French Alain Delon movie "Trois Hommes à Abattre", there is a chase that's basically as unrealistic as the other movie chases, but the end is a bit different :

    It starts like a joke (the "slow down because of our kids" sign)

    939170vlcsnap2013080221h24m15s70.png

    but then just after the bad guys car

    757572vlcsnap2013080221h25m15s222.png

    oh oh

    324131vlcsnap2013080221h25m59s143.png

    the hero has to stop and let the bad guys escape

    822848vlcsnap2013080221h26m10s10.png

    Then the hero and the kid paralyzed by fear look at one another for a moment, the hero has just let the killers of his best friend escape, but he can't show any bad feelings.

    Nowadays it would be a reminder there's no way you can be a "responsible driver" in action movies, not sure they would dare to do such things.

    Very interesting, thanks for that. Yes, I too had thought of the family in that TLD PTS scene, though I didn't realise a stunt driver was at the wheel of that white car. Well spotted!

    I agree, this is fascinating, thanks for sharing Suivez ce Parachute. I will need to watch that movie.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    About the OP, I think it is a fascinating topic. Why is there barely any children in Bond movies? I have an hypothesis: it would age Bond, make him mortal, so to speak.

    Also, each time you have Bond chasing someone or being chased, having childs in the crowd would make the scene go from unrealistic to blatantly unrealistic. The passerbys who avoid him or avoid the villain are always fit, adult people (= stuntmen and stuntwomen). No overweight people who can't jump two meters at the last second, no kid who would stay still in front of the car, stuck by fear. Also, the director want "nice people" sometimes anyway : can you spot an overweight person , an elder people, or a kid in the crowd at the horse race in QOS for instance ?

    In TLD opening, Remy Julienne's son who drives the white car that faces the Land Rover, has a child in the backseat. But all the passerbys who jump to avoid the Land Rover are fit adults (and one even jumps to his death :) ).

    I've already wrote about this scene about five times here I think but anyway : in the French Alain Delon movie "Trois Hommes à Abattre", there is a chase that's basically as unrealistic as the other movie chases, but the end is a bit different :

    It starts like a joke (the "slow down because of our kids" sign)

    939170vlcsnap2013080221h24m15s70.png

    but then just after the bad guys car

    757572vlcsnap2013080221h25m15s222.png

    oh oh

    324131vlcsnap2013080221h25m59s143.png

    the hero has to stop and let the bad guys escape

    822848vlcsnap2013080221h26m10s10.png

    Then the hero and the kid paralyzed by fear look at one another for a moment, the hero has just let the killers of his best friend escape, but he can't show any bad feelings.

    Nowadays it would be a reminder there's no way you can be a "responsible driver" in action movies, not sure they would dare to do such things.

    Very interesting, thanks for that. Yes, I too had thought of the family in that TLD PTS scene, though I didn't realise a stunt driver was at the wheel of that white car. Well spotted!

    I agree, this is fascinating, thanks for sharing Suivez ce Parachute. I will need to watch that movie.

    Me too. The list is forever growing of "To see" it seems...

  • BigGayIslandBigGayIsland Banned
    edited August 2013 Posts: 56
    If I wanted to see a child in a Bond film?

    I would get custody of my daughter so she could stick her head in front of the tv! :))
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    If I wanted to see a child in a Bond film?

    I would get custody of my daughter so she could stick her head in front of the tv! :))

    Touché.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    If I wanted to see a child in a Bond film?

    I would get custody of my daughter so she could stick her head in front of the tv! :))
    Dragonpol wrote:
    If I wanted to see a child in a Bond film?

    I would get custody of my daughter so she could stick her head in front of the tv! :))

    Touché.

    @BigGayIsland and @Dragonpol, neither of these posts contribute anything to the discussion. They are spammy at best. The first post is a useless remark no-one wants to read, the one word post 'Touché' to a useless remark is questionable. If one wants to avoid the accusation of just boosting up their post count, it might be wise to also avoid this kind of posts.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 18,270
    DarthDimi wrote:
    If I wanted to see a child in a Bond film?

    I would get custody of my daughter so she could stick her head in front of the tv! :))
    Dragonpol wrote:
    If I wanted to see a child in a Bond film?

    I would get custody of my daughter so she could stick her head in front of the tv! :))

    Touché.

    @BigGayIsland and @Dragonpol, neither of these posts contribute anything to the discussion. They are spammy at best. The first post is a useless remark no-one wants to read, the one word post 'Touché' to a useless remark is questionable. If one wants to avoid the accusation of just boosting up their post count, it might be wise to also avoid this kind of posts.

    That I will, sir. Sorry for my silly post. Please forgive my self-indulgence. You should be by now hopefully be aware that I rarely post in a flippant manner, @DarthDimi.

    For an example of this, I did have this thread renamed to something less vague when it was threatened with closure if you look back through the thread.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    @Dragonpol, I'm also aware that we need to IFM BigGayIsland.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    DarthDimi wrote:
    @Dragonpol, I'm also aware that we need to IFM BigGayIsland.

    I would have to agree on that one - and, may I add, his alter-ego.
  • Posts: 5,993
    There's one reason why there are no kids in Bond : Let's remember that Fleming wrote them as his own escape fantasy after he had married his mistress and gotten a child by her, as a way t relive his bachelor days, so to speak. Bond is a fantasy for bachelors or for married men who wish they still are bachelors. At least, that's my theory.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 18,270
    Gerard wrote:
    There's one reason why there are no kids in Bond : Let's remember that Fleming wrote them as his own escape fantasy after he had married his mistress and gotten a child by her, as a way t relive his bachelor days, so to speak. Bond is a fantasy for bachelors or for married men who wish they still are bachelors. At least, that's my theory.

    Yes, there's something in that, for sure. But there was a great radio drama play on BBC Radio 4 back in January 2006 called 'From Father, with Love' and it documented the relationship between the author Ian Fleming and his young son, Caspar, for whom he wrote the book Chitty Chitty Bang Bang after having used it as a bedtime story. So he did certainly have a legacy left for children too, let's not forget and that radio play did present a very different caring and surprisingly doting father side to Ian Fleming. Of course the children's book went on to become a very successful musical film produced also by Eon Productions.
  • Hmm. Surely never seen in any of Connery's movies, very much an adult world, and adults when to the movies to get away from the kids. And kid don't want to see their own kind onscreen but then come the 1970s and that all changes...

    Of course, Haggis wrote a draft of QoS in which Vesper turned out to have a kid from a past lover. Nixed by the producers, thankfully.
  • Perhaps I can contribute without going too far off the original purpose of this topic, instead of examples of when they have previously featured, what about people's opinions on future appearances? I think it would be interesting to have a youngster as a baby faced assassin or similar. How would Bond overcome and neutralise this threat without doing the unthinkable, using his licence to kill against a child?
  • An insolent, baby faced teen assassin of East European origin, cycling around Tel Aviv with a bomb in his shopping basket - yes please!

    He'd have to accidentally blow himself up of course.
  • Posts: 15,116
    A child assassin? I think it would be tasteless and too grim to be of any entertaining value. The discreet way they hinted at this reality in CR was the only way to do it, I think.

    On a side note, am I the only one who found the children in DAF utterly irritating? I don't know why, but I always hated them. Even and actually maybe especially when I was a child.
  • Posts: 2,483
    Ludovico wrote:
    A child assassin? I think it would be tasteless and too grim to be of any entertaining value. The discreet way they hinted at this reality in CR was the only way to do it, I think.

    On a side note, am I the only one who found the children in DAF utterly irritating? I don't know why, but I always hated them. Even and actually maybe especially when I was a child.

    The water balloon boy is great, if only because he serves as a great foil for Tiffany. That entire carnival segment of DAF is one of my favorite in all of Bond. Zambora indeed!

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    Ludovico wrote:
    A child assassin? I think it would be tasteless and too grim to be of any entertaining value. The discreet way they hinted at this reality in CR was the only way to do it, I think.

    On a side note, am I the only one who found the children in DAF utterly irritating? I don't know why, but I always hated them. Even and actually maybe especially when I was a child.

    The water balloon boy is great, if only because he serves as a great foil for Tiffany. That entire carnival segment of DAF is one of my favorite in all of Bond. Zambora indeed!

    That moment is deliciously campy, @Perilagu_Khan. I love it too. Especially the kid's tone. "Who's she? Your mother?" Only in DAF is such a thing possible. :-)

    I prefer no children at all in the Bonds, unless as background characters. The kids running behind Solange on her horse? Perfectly acceptable. The elephant selling boy in TMWTGG? A very uncomfortable scene.

    Anyway, what use do kids have in a Bond film? Are we going to buddy Bond to a youngster so we can have that generation conflict that hasn't been funny since 2500 BC? Are we going to make Bond a family man so we can have scenes of him and a kid gaze upon the stars, meanwhile petting a dog? Will Bond find the chosen one who will bring balance to the Force and analyse the midichlorian content in his blood? Or worse still - yes worse - will be find a child in peril that Bond has to rescue? Perhaps we can have Roland Emmerich direct that film. It's going to have a dog too, and the American president, and a world threatening catastrophe and a budget of 350 million.

    I'm sorry but when I watch a Bond film, I don't need the presence of kids, neither in my theatre nor on screen.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    There are also the children at Lazar's house in TMWTGG, and of course the teen girls with their karate. Why are there more children in that movie than any other?
  • Cos it's a kids' movie really!
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