It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
I heard that was BS and spam ham. A little bird told me that at the bottom of the garden.
Now. That is not merely a theory, that's a urban legend! Thanks for finding it.
Thanks ever so much for finding this! My curiosity is now satisfied where this came from and what it basically was about. Pretty funny actually.
"The pre-title scenes have nothing to do with the main plot of the movies"
Well, way back in the old forum, I proved that the majority of the pre-title scenes had something to do with the plot of the movie, and that the ones that didn't could be counted on the fingers of one hand (GF, TB, FYEO, OP, CR '06).
That depends how you take it. I always thought she was sort of the same, but in another continuity.
Back on topic:
There is a theory that between YOLT and OHMSS Bond has plastic surgery, explaining why Blofeld doesn't recognize Bond when at Piz Gloria and it also plays on Lazenby being a fill-in for Sean. Pretty wacky, but the producers did consider the surgery angle. OHMSS can leave you scratching your head at times, that is for sure.
I can't really think of that many other crazy theories at the moment. I do have a theory of my own about GF that I like to think about every time I re-watch that film, but it isn't a highly-publicized theory like some of these others we have been discussing because it is just my personal fantasy.
I will try to think of any more I have heard.
I always tried to explain Blofeld not recognizing Bond in OHMSS by coming back to the books and tweak in a bit of retcon in the movies: in the novel YOLT Bond is disguised as a Japanese and Blofeld is not certain he is Bond. So I presume in YOLT the movie Bond had still some of his makeup on. Far from a perfect explanation, but it makes more sense than the codename theory.
For Your Eyes Only and Octopussy don't, the other three link to the rest of the story.
That's at least debatable, I suppose, though I do see your point very clearly.
Your mileage may vary, but:
a) The drug shipment Bond destroys in the PTS of GF doesn't have anything to do with his attempts to destroy Goldfinger in the rest of the movie.
b) Even if Boitard works for SPECTRE, eliminating him doesn't give Bond any clue as to what SPECTRE will do next.
c) Unless you can prove that the two men Bond Kills at the beginning of CR '06 are in any way linked to le Chiffre's plot, I still say that it's unrelated.
Bond mentions he's on his way to Miami, or someone does. That's where he is after the PTS. Boitard's death ties into what SPECTRE do during the course of the film and is mentioned by Blofeld. Bond's two kills lead to him being promoted.
For Your Eyes Only and Octopussy are the only two that are "completely unrelated" as you said in your quote. That is what I meant. They are the only two that have nothing to do with the main plot of the movie at all.
his background about his parents are fabrications created by the timelords; the memories of Kincade are the results of Indoctrination by the timelords (new memories)
basically it explains how Bond has changed faces- time travel can explain that the Connery drastically changes from You Only Live Twice to Diamonds are Forever and then to Never Say Never Agian...
Connery's Bond timeline is From Dr. No- You Only Live Twice (he then departs- which a newer incarnation of Bond- aka Lazenby arrives- if you hear the hints from Moneypenny "still the same James" means that he is indeed diffrent to the Connery Bond- im assuming the british goverment knows about the exterteristial and well yeah
Now Lazenby's Bond after the events of OHMSS either commits sucide, goes on another adventure which due to time travel- Connery's Bond turns up for The DAF Mission and then afterwards disapears on unseen adventures until 1983's Never Say Never Agian which could be the result of a timeline change or perhaps the events of NSNA happen before Octopussy which explains that the Edward Fox M is replaced with the Robert Brown M and the double O Section is reopened
Anyway back on track Bond regenerates from Lazenby to Moore who until the events of A View to a Kill where things get sketchy he regenerates into Dalton who after the events of The Living Daylights goes on unseen adventures where The Brosnan bond travels back in time to 1986 where he does the mission in Goldeneye...he completes the mission and then travels forwards 9 years later (which explains how physically unchanged Brosnans Bond is from 1986 to 1995) and in 1989 Dalton's Bond does the Licence to Kill mission and leaves the service only to get reinstated for the unseen Property of a Lady mission in 1993...then after that regenerates into Brosnan
So Between Goldeneye and Tommorow Never Dies and The World is Not Enough all his missions Brosnan's appearence greatly changes due to offscreen adventures- when we come to Die Another Day he is notiably older than his other adventures within the 7 years (1995-2002) to explain the whole two hearts of a timelord- its possible that he had his heart ripped out- Gallifreyians can substain with one heart (its probarly explained on another adventure) anyway that explains his x-ray in Die Another Day it also explains how is internal organs are unaffected and how Bond coped in Korea for 18 months
anyway after The Everything or Nothing assignment in 2004 things get sketchy- its possible that Brosnan regnerated into Craig's Bond and lost his memories from Connery- Brosnan, during that time things changed at Mi6 and Judi Dench's M was in charge (note she served a decade at Mi6 by that point)
anyway M treated Craig's Bond diffrently due to his amnesia and wasnt sure of him until the end of The Casino Royale/Qantum of Solace assignments and after that and unseen adventures (possibily Craig getting his memories back of his past missions which explains how he went from a Rookie to a Veteran in just 3 films) and yeah it concluded with the skyfall mission and The new M Gareth Mallory taking over...
Yes i know what you are going to say Shouldnt M and Moneypenny and Felix Leiter be timelords too as they changed apperances:
M's easily change From Benerard Lee's M (who either retires or dies before the events of FYEO) goes to Edward Fox's M (who probarly during a finatial crisis at MI6 or from his attiude gets fired) to Robert Brown's M- Admiral Hargreaves (same character possibly later promoted as M in his future Bond stories) who after the events of Property of a Lady gets succeeded by Judi Dench's M before the events of Goldeneye hence why she is evaulating the new Brosnan Bond
Moneypenny is obvisously a codename as there are 4 versions of her
The Lois Maxwell Moneypenny from Dr No to A View to a Kill (who probarly left or got promoted) was then suceded by Caroline Bliss Moneypenny (who probarly either gets Fired by M or leaves replaced by Samantha Bond's Moneypenny who probarly leaves after the events of Die Another Day
Eve obviously inherits the assistant job from Villers (M's personal assistant in CR) and after the events of Skyfall gets the office job- perhaps Eve's last name of Moneypenny isnt her real name as the pause she gives says that she is the newest MP which Bond gives a look realising the other Moneypennys and then see's her potential as a new moneypenny diffrent from the others (hence due to her background and such including field work)
* note the Moneypenny in Never Say Never Agian was perhaps a substitute while Lois Moneypenny was either on Leave or something else
Felix leiter is obviously a codename in the CIA aswell- and that David Hendersons Felix is obviously the same in LTK and LALD, it also explains The Felix Leiter's in both Never Say Never Agian and Casino Royale/Qantum of Solace.
Well, Dr. No's death is mentioned by Kronsteen (or Blofeld) in FRWL, but that doesn't mean that DN is the pre-title sequence for FRWL, or that Bond's mission in DN is in any way related to his mission in FRWL. His execution of Boitard in TB is just that : a mission unrelated to what follows. Same for GF: Bond is just enjoying a bit of R & R in Miami after having put a smuggling operation to a fiery end when the order to get interested in Goldfinger arrives. And his two kills in CR are unrelated to what happen after that. It's just the visual equivalent to the converzsation with Vesper in the novel, where he explains how he got his double 0. I stand my case, but you can feel free to disagree.
On the other hand, one theory that appeared here was that M was either Bond's or Silva's mother. Totally debunked, of course. If M was Bond's mother, Kincade would have recognized her, and she would have known about the priest hole.
They have a connection. That is all I'm saying and I'm sure countless others would agree.
[/quote]
I'm interested. It can't be any sillier than the rest of these theories.
And the PTS of Tomorrow Never Dies isn't much more connected to its main plot than Goldfinger's, Thunderball's, or Casino Royale's. Gupta's in it, but that's about it. Not much different from getting Bond to Miami or showing him become a 00.
I'm sorry but I also couldn't disagree with you more on this. Neither GF or TB's PTS have anything to do with the main plot whatsoever. To say that because it is mentioned in GF that "there is a plane waiting to take you to Miami" is a plot thread is stretching it thin to say the least!
And sure, Bouvar is spoken of by Blofeld in TB when Largo first enters the room, but this:
"I regret to inform you all of the death of Spectre No. 6. Colonel Jacques Bouvar was killed by an unknown assassin. His services will be greatly missed". does not constitute is any way as plot exposition.
Had Largo's plan to steal the two atomic bombs been a form of payback for the death of Bouvar, then yes it would be intrinsically linked to the plot.
As for CR, it is an important moment in Bond's character arc but it in no way contributes towards the central story.
There is a link, no matter how big or small between the two but believe what you want, there's fine by me. Which other PTS are not connectioned to the rest of the film for you @WillyGalore?
Yes there could very well be a link, but I would most certainly argue that there is no connection of what happens in the PTS to the plot of those movies, which was the basis for your original discussion.
Yes quite possibly, it does introduce a major character at Grant's watch is a minor plot point, which is brought back into play later on in the movie in his fight with Bond but it's a sequence that adds nothing in terms of main plotting.
Even DAF and TND have a little connection to the plot and wouldn't really be missed if they didn't make it into the film.
It is interesting to see how the PTS have evolved over the years. They started off with the intention of being a "five minute film within-a-film" to whet the audiences' appetite for things to come over the next couple of hours.
They are mostly written with the intention of driving the narrative forward these days.
It's been said that The Spy Who Loved Me was the movie that was the most responsible for this change. It was probably the most plot-heavy PTS to that point and ended with a huge stunt, without telling a story the way that, say, Goldfinger's did.
All the same, he best (The Spy Who Loved Me, GoldenEye, Casino Royale) are able to do both, which is quite an admirable feat.
It's really interesting you say TSWLM because apart from being my favourite PTS of all time with arguably features The Greatest Stunt In Movie History, it is a PTS split in two parts. The first part (British & Russian submarines go missing) is the set up of the plot and the second (Bond & Sergei's conflicting missions in Austria) is the set up to the sub-plot, which is Anya's quest to avenge her lover's murder.
Yes, I'd not thought of it that way before, but you are right. This is what separates TSWLM from YOLT - the love story and the sub-plot adds more drama to avoid it being an all-out action-fest devoid of any interest in characterisation and character development.
Yes it's one of the greatest criticisms of TSWLM that it's plot is a near carbon copy of YOLT, which is hard to disagree with. The main difference though is that I consider TSWLM to me the much more entertaining and better made film overall. The sub plot mentioned gives the film another layer and at least Moore gives a performance that shows he's at the top of his game, whilst Connery in YOLT clearly had enough of Bond by that point.
Agreed very much there, Herr Galore! :) TSWLM is indeed a much better film than YOLT, as are most of the Bond films. We agree on most of the bottom Bond films. I recall your saying in a PM.
I have a few off-beat things to say regarding TSWLM on my blog at some point. You may find them interesting.