Why people like Snowden, Manning and Assange are dangerous

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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,267
    I fear you're just wasting your breath @DarthDimi

    Though it did need to be said. He's got form in this area, if I recall correctly.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Keeping secrets in computer files? LOL, that's like leaving the henhouse door open & expecting the foxes to be civil. :))
  • Posts: 11,119
    Just watching the news about the UN's decision not to initiate an investigation of the poisonous gas attacks on Syrian civilians in Damascus.

    This is a serious precedent we see now. Russia and China are even voting against investigations. Investigations that are a relatively normal, standard measure in these kind of atrocities. And I am not talking about military intervention here.

    And when president Obama is not giving any new official statement regarding these gas attacks, one can safely conclude that Russian and Chinese tacktics within the UN security council are working 100%. They have shown now that they can dictate politics around the world, via the UN. Russia and China have again shown that they are already more powerful than the USA.

    By the way, in the meanwhile I'm reading that Bradley Manning gave an official statement: He wants to become a woman.
  • Is that why the thread says 'people' like Manning, Assange etc...?

    Tell you what, none of the revelations expose 9/11 as an inside job, that Diana was murdered etc, so it seems to do the Establishment some favours ie that all that was hot air. Not that the conspiracy theorists seem to have picked up on that.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 18,267
    Is that why the thread says 'people' like Manning, Assange etc...?

    Tell you what, none of the revelations expose 9/11 as an inside job, that Diana was murdered etc, so it seems to do the Establishment some favours ie that all that was hot air. Not that the conspiracy theorists seem to have picked up on that.

    Agreed very much. The conspiracy crowd's silence is indeed deafening! On Princess Diana, a soldier's in-laws said he was involved in her death just this week (Sunday)!
  • Posts: 11,119
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Is that why the thread says 'people' like Manning, Assange etc...?

    Tell you what, none of the revelations expose 9/11 as an inside job, that Diana was murdered etc, so it seems to do the Establishment some favours ie that all that was hot air. Not that the conspiracy theorists seem to have picked up on that.

    Agreed very much. The conspiracy crowd's silence is indeed deafening! On Princess Diana, a soldier's in-laws said he was involved in her death just this week (Sunday)!

    Yeah, but the difference is.........Lady Di wasn't leaking confidential top secret information. Detecetives would even search a possible murder of Lady Di within the 'private atmosphere' of family and friends.

    I think we can safely say here that this is a different story with Manning, Snowden and Assange. Manning's latest quotation "I am Chelsea!" sells it for me. Guys like Manning, Snowden and Assange are much closer to people who are screaming for worldwide attention, because they haven't solved their own private, mostly psychological, problems.
  • Well, not sure I follow this follow-up. Regards the new Diana stories, some fool's boasting doesn't really amount to a serious claim, he sounds like the sort who pops up on Alan Partridge, or is it Spaced?

    Just saying that all the while it was said that those in the know knew all about 9/11 and what really happened, and of course Diana's death had to be murder - but if all this is true, then why did none of this come out in the WikiLeaks?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,267
    Well, not sure I follow this follow-up. Regards the new Diana stories, some fool's boasting doesn't really amount to a serious claim, he sounds like the sort who pops up on Alan Partridge, or is it Spaced?

    Just saying that all the while it was said that those in the know knew all about 9/11 and what really happened, and of course Diana's death had to be murder - but if all this is true, then why did none of this come out in the WikiLeaks?

    Exactly. Good points. The press pay so much for this trash in "Exclusives" and therein lies your answer!
  • Going back to the OP's interesting piece, it's a good argument, not wholly sound imo. It sort of boils down to, let's allow our own side to get away with what they're doing, because let's face it, the bad guys are even worse! Though it's a common thought process, goes back a long way, even justifies the bombing of German cities in WW2 cos let's face it, the Nazis were even worse (true, but still...) Once you find an enemy and demonise him, rightly or wrongly, it's convenient because you can use it to negate your own crimes.

    And of course, murders by American troops on Middle Eastern soil, helicopter gunship stuff and trigger happy pilots, inflames the situation out there, not sure the killers have been held to account. Sure you can say the same of Middle Eastern terrorists, but then you're establishing parity, you're saying we're the same.

    I think Putin and Russia are down on gays cos the standard of living is lower out there and when that happens you need an enemy, if not gays then Jews or other minorities. Folk feel the need to dish it out on someone else, they allow less leeway to others.

    The OP makes good points about how the US wouldn't murder Snowden on Russian soil, and yes the bigger picture probably is that Russia is more evil (though in some ways that's arguable, they didn't unleash hell in the Middle East) and these points ought to be made to embarrass Russia a bit, make them look silly. The West sometimes are so sure they're in the right, they don't apply pressure or mockery to their opponents, be it Russia or Islamist terrorists.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,248
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Is that why the thread says 'people' like Manning, Assange etc...?

    Tell you what, none of the revelations expose 9/11 as an inside job, that Diana was murdered etc, so it seems to do the Establishment some favours ie that all that was hot air. Not that the conspiracy theorists seem to have picked up on that.

    Agreed very much. The conspiracy crowd's silence is indeed deafening! On Princess Diana, a soldier's in-laws said he was involved in her death just this week (Sunday)!

    Yeah, but the difference is.........Lady Di wasn't leaking confidential top secret information. Detecetives would even search a possible murder of Lady Di within the 'private atmosphere' of family and friends.

    I think we can safely say here that this is a different story with Manning, Snowden and Assange. Manning's latest quotation "I am Chelsea!" sells it for me. Guys like Manning, Snowden and Assange are much closer to people who are screaming for worldwide attention, because they haven't solved their own private, mostly psychological, problems.

    @Gustav_Graves can you actually imagine that even people with psychological problems try to do the good thing? Why are you not commenting on the helicopter footage that he made public, where American soldiers just kill Iraqui's for fun?
    Why do you feel the US government is always right and people who try to show this isn't the case should be put away for a quarter, or up to a half lifetime?
    Why do you not comment on the holding by the British government of the partner of a journalist who of the guardian? What has this Brazillian civillian done?
    Why do you not comment on the British government ordering the Guardian to destroy information? What does this do to free journalism? Do you still remember what role the media have in a democratic country?

    And on Russia and China in the UN? Since when is this new?Maybe you should first start learning about history. Do you think the Chinese supported the UN troops fighting in Korea? They were fighting against them!

    Please pay attention to arguments given agianst your own statements. It's only fair to do since you started this discussion!
  • It's a tricky one about the Brazilian friend of a journalist. Could well be that he may have been sued by journalist to smuggle back info from Snowden into the country, so it wouldn't be found on the journo's laptop. Not sure that nine hours' questioning isn't excessive of course. Yet I'm not sure it was the straightforward revenge scenario some are making out; that oh, we're gonna nobble this guy cos his mate has written nasty stories about us. They were actually looking for something.

    I would struggle to defend Assange, who seems a narcisstic creep, but the thing is, honestly, a good many of our most treasured celebs turn out to be narcissists at the end of the day, pick up almost any bio of some national hero be they David Niven, Ian Fleming, John Lennon or whover, you read some pretty nasty stuff.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,248
    It's a tricky one about the Brazilian friend of a journalist. Could well be that he may have been sued by journalist to smuggle back info from Snowden into the country, so it wouldn't be found on the journo's laptop. Not sure that nine hours' questioning isn't excessive of course. Yet I'm not sure it was the straightforward revenge scenario some are making out; that oh, we're gonna nobble this guy cos his mate has written nasty stories about us. They were actually looking for something.

    I would struggle to defend Assange, who seems a narcisstic creep, but the thing is, honestly, a good many of our most treasured celebs turn out to be narcissists at the end of the day, pick up almost any bio of some national hero be they David Niven, Ian Fleming, John Lennon or whover, you read some pretty nasty stuff.

    Well he wasn't just his mate, but he's his partner. They held him on anti-terrorist legislation which means they can hold anyone for nine hours becouse he/she may or may not be associated with terrorists. This means they either think the Guardian Journalist is a terrorist, or Assange. As far as i know neither have been officially been declared enemy of the state. Even if he was carrying info, they have no right to detain him, or they should be able to prove this information was stolen. But these days people don't carry info around anymore. It's safer to send it digitally (encrypted). So his detention could only have been bullying and intimidation.
  • Yeah, okay, I knew he was his partner, though mate and partner isn't mutually exclusive. Actually, if he 's carrying info that could damage the state or give succour of sorts to terrorists, then they can detain him. But of course, then any criticism of the state can translate as 'succour to terrorists' so it's nebulous.
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