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Your view on the Recurring characters created for Brosnan's Era
In the Pierce Brosnan era of Bond movies we saw many characters created for the films . And not just Bond Girls and Villians , but recurring characters. We saw a new "M", and this does count as an entirely new character . We were introduced to Jack Wade , who some say was created to fill the gap left by Feilix Leiter. We then met Q's assistant "R" , Who became our new QuarterMaster in DAD. We also had Charles Robinson. And of course my personal favourite Valentin Zukovsky. What's your view on these characters ? What impact did they have for you ? What did you think of the actors who portrayed them.Share your opinions and memories.
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Comments
Well, there are people who do dislike Dench if you can believe that. They usually fall under the "sexist, misogynist dinosaur" category. They are too traditional and think M should never be anything but a man as in the Fleming books. The series has to remain forward thinking and adjust to the times to a certain degree if it wishes to remain relevant and successful. There are many successful women out there who've earned the right to be a boss. Some people just don't get that.
Yes, there's always the oddballs everywhere you care to go.
Colin Salmone did a good job with what he was given and I think he's better than Kinnear but I prefer Michael Kitchen's Tanner to Robinson. He was great in GE.
Jack Wade was alright but I'm not sure why they didn't just bring back Lieter and Zukofsky was brilliant. Maybe my favourite recurring character in the whole series.
Most fans who don't like Dench (me included), dislike her because she was overused, because we got sick of the constant trust issues between her and Craig's Bond, because she became a stubborn, incompetent character (although to be fair that seemed to be the writers intentions in SF) and because we didn't like the surrogate mum angle.
Yeah there are some sexists who don't like her just because she's a woman but don't paint us all with the same brush please.
He was still good in TWINE, though he died. My favorite line in that film is "I'm looking for a submarine. It's big and black, and the driver is a very good friend of mine."
Really, other than Zukovsky, all of the recurring characters in the Brosnan films were created to fill a role from a previous film. Dench took over as M, because the Bernard Lee/Robert Brown M's (if they weren't the same character, which I choose to think they weren't) had retired or died, so they bring in Dench's M to replace them. Felix Leiter (presumably, after that wound) retires from the CIA/DEA and Jack Wade replaces him. Bill Tanner wasn't there for some reason, so temporarily Charles Robinson replaces him (then even more temporarily works alongside him in TWINE). R was Q's replacement (a very obvious one). Technically Zukovsky is a replacement for General Gogol, as both are sympathetic (ex) Soviets. You could even say Jinx and her boss (Michael Madsen) were replacements for Wade.
I also liked Charles Robinson, but I never really liked Jack Wade.
I didn't care of Cleese's R/Q even though I like him very much outside of Bond films.
I didn't think we were counting Dench's M - if we are then she gets my #1 favorite vote, with Zukovsky 2nd.
Now now, I said usually and not all. You took it personally, why you would I don't get because you should know me better than that, you didn't properly read what I said because it's there as it was when I wrote it. Your points are different ones and reasonable as well.
My favorite Zukovsky lines in TWINE are calling Mr. Bullion a "gold plated buffoon", wanting to congratulate his security when thinks he found Dr. Jones alone in his office dressed as she was, and "the insurance company is never going to believe this" as the four good walls he thought he had left came crashing down. I still double over in laughter just thinking about it let alone seeing it. As I've often said, including the above, one of the few saving graces that make TWINE worth a watch every now and again.
1: Dench's M
2: Zukovsky
3: Kitchen's Tanner
4: Robinson
5: Jack Wade
6: Cleese's R/Q (horrible).
Not almost embarrassing, a complete and utter embarrassment, which nearly destroyed the character.
I think a lot of that overexposure had to do with Dench becoming a bigger international star as the series progressed. Although it wasn't literally his only role, Bernard Lee was not known for anything other than playing M to the vast majority of Bond movie fans. Therefore, a few brief scenes with him was all that was expected or demanded. But with Dench becoming so renowned I think the producers decided to use that star power to perhaps expand the viewership and bring in Dench fans who weren't necessarily Bond fans as well.
Agreed. And since Ralph Fiennes is a far more famous actor than Bernard Lee, I think his M will be featured more too, albeit in a different way than Dench's.
That's quite true although it had never really occurred to me before that that was the reason for M's (Judi Dench's) expanded role in some of the Bond films.
I completely agree and then some. I don't fault Samantha Bond for this, it was her job to be a professional actress and say these embarrassing lines. She had good chemistry with Brosnan, you could tell they liked each other and enjoyed working together. All the screenwriters and even EON for approving these lines are wholly to blame for making Moneypenny unrecognizable. My poor Penny became "Smuttypenny", issuing lines completely inappropriate for the established character and at the end something straight out of a bad porn film. Caroline Bliss was a terrible Moneypenny, but I can at least say her lines were dignified and appropriate. Other than Llewellyn, who was obviously just barely hanging in there, both the M and Moneypenny characters underwent some major overhauls and it didn't work for everyone.
I thought (Samanatha) Bond was a decent Moneypenny. A vast improvement on Bliss, but there were moments when you think to yourself - "This isn't appropriate", or at least, you could never envisage any former Moneypenny participating in such incidents
Thing is though, Sam Bond came in at the tail end of the 20th century and on into the new one, and things had become a little more daring or risque, and things weren't as sugar coated as before, at least not with the Lois Maxwell era. Feel I'm going down a blind alley a little on this, but at least some may interpret what was trying to be said
Other than the changing of the dynamic between Bond and M, the bigger reason for more M screen time was M-O-N-E-Y. The more you pay an employee, the more you expect in the way of work. I will be very surprised if this changes when it comes to Fiennes, and we may see more than usual from Harris and Whishaw based on similar circumstances. I know people don't think these characters should take away from the focus on Bond, the villains, and the Bond women, but EON's philosophy at the moment has put the support cast on equal footing. Sam Mendes' recent comments about seeing MP more actively assisting Bond in the field give this some weight as far as factuality.
Count me as one more fan with great admiration for the work Robbie Coltrane did as Zukovsy. Jack Wade was fun, but Zukovsky absolutely stole the show in both of his appearances. I was sorry to see him go so soon!
Yes, I completely get what you are saying here - there was much more innuendo here than before. I think they played on the past relationship and "moved it up a gear" so to speak. It became much more overtly sexualised, to the point of the Moneypenny virtual sex with Bond in DAD which was just too much and spoiled the whole thing somewhat by being smutty.
Amen to that! I can't speak for how much Fiennes will appear as far as office to field ratios, but I already sense a different personal dynamic at work here based on Skyfall. Mallory seems to be more like Lee, much less concerned with Bond the person than the job Bond is doing. He seemed like a no-nonsense character who isn't going to take a personal mentor interest in his mental well being or have the particularly needless trust issues we saw in Skyfall. It's almost like they forgot the last half hour of QOS where it appears she finally trusts him. Another good reason to part company with Purvis and Wade, who created most of Skyfall and proved that their collective brain farting was more than just a baseless opinion that some fans had.
The important thing to remember with M out in the field is not so much "how much", but for what reason? That's how I always look at it. If it's for a professional reason, it doesn't greatly bother me. TWINE is the ultimate example of M being in the field for the wrong reason, she rushes out to protect and/or mother Elektra because of their personal relationship, ignoring personal danger for herself.
I think Samantha Bond played the character well and yes there was chemistry between her and Brosnan, but while she was written at first like a colleague who liked Bond, she ended up in DAD behaving like a stupid groupie.
I think M is the biggest fool in Twine - not Bond.
But M in the field did not start with Judi Dench, it started with Bernard Lee in YOLT. I do think, given Ralph Fiennes's stature as an actor, that he will be used a lot more than Lee or Brown, however I think (and hope!) it may be more as a sort of Mycroft Holmes, being smarter than Bond, able to see things Bond cannot see.