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Comments
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Well, the "four elements" idea is pretty artsy too. At least the Tennyson speech has some relevance to the story (i.e. we may be weaker than we once were but we are still strong willed). That was pretty much the theme of Fleming's stories (a fading empire).
Your opinion and we weren't fooled we entertained look I probably can't stand your favourites but you really have to let this go, you are in every bloody thread about Skyfall be it hate or love.
If Skyfall was a girl I'd say you seriously fancy it because you can't shut up about it, we could compile a novel on your opinions on it, seriously give it a rest!
I feel bad for those that don't like Skyfall. There's so much to love in it, stuff you can't find in a lot of the other Bond films. There's something deeper, something far more symbolic and relevant about it all, the Tennyson sequence being the cherry on top of a very impressive cake.
While I understand and respect the opinions of those who don't care for it, it does get tiresome to see the same faces spouting negativity about the film over and over again ad nauseam, a phenomenon recognized as MattHelmitis in the states, I believe.
In a way, I feel truly sad for the dissenters. To experience a surge of overflowing enjoyment for something to such a great degree, whether it's a film, a book or just a single character you're obsessed with is phenomenal, but it also brings about a bitter feeling when you realize some people will never get to feel that same boundless energy for themselves. However, I think I'm done wiping my tears for the Skyfall hate brigade, and am now more than happy just to have parties without them.
You still going on about the story being nonsense @Getafix? ;))
Boy, you don't tire of this do you?
We can pull it apart from now til doomsday but history will see it remain amongst the most popular Bond films in the series.
However @Getafix you should now spread your word a little further afield and preach your dislike outside of the community, like one of those African missionaries.
;-)
I agree when it comes to "M" being a very incompetent MI6-boss. It's a fact. She first of all travelled way way too much, thus exposing MI-6 to unnecessary dangers. A true MI6-boss has a fully-loaded desk job and always stays under the radar, to make sure that the secrecy of the service doesn't get compromised. It's something I always disliked about Judi Dench version of "M".
On top of that....it's frikkin' expensive too! She gets paid by taxpayers money, but still has the blatant impoliteness to travel to: Azerbaijan, Turkey, demilitarized zone of Korea, Hong Kong, The Bahama's, Bolivia, Russia (Kazan) and that poor-man's land called Scotland ;-). In any case, it's only logical that she's dead.
And that's where I wholeheartedly agree with Mallory: "We are a democracy, so we have to be accountable for our actions".
BUT, there's one part I disagree with. Regardless of the above plain logic, I do think "M's" Tennyson-speech was terrific. It was 200% "Sam Mendes", as the director really wanted to reflect on the overall theme, the overall "leitmotif" of the film. And I think that really worked. "Espionage" IMO is the central theme of the film. It's a crisp and clear message that mirrors today's real-life espionage. And "M" is right: "They are not nations, they operate in the shadows. That's where we must do battle".
Perhaps this Tennyson-speech lacks any real "Bond feel". But that's what sets this film apart from many other Bond films. I like that. And it works. It gives a Bond film new substance, and not just form.
I've probably misremembered it, but are the committee even questioning the need for spies? It's not a question I've ever heard come up in the real world. The issue is usually about wanting our spies to do a better job and perhaps controlling some of their excesses (torture), not asking whether we need them. In the context if the film, M seems to be responding to some none existent question and ducking the main point, which is that she has screwed up. It's why I find the whole scene a bit nonsensical and just feel the poem has been shoehorned in because Mendes wanted it.
Any way, I appreciate there are those on here who think the only acceptable comment on SF is a positive one, so I'll pipe down and leave this thread to the cheerleaders.
And no... I am not part of any "Skyfall hate brigade". I am just a regular James Bond fan, who think SF is overrated. Unlike the love brigade of course, who can't stand the thought of people not liking SF ;-)
No, they just 'feel sorry for you' ;)
Hmm... yes. Usually when someone dares to criticize SF, one of two, or both, things happen:
1) One or several members of The Love Brigade "feels sorry" for this certain someone.
2) One or several members of The Love Brigade calls this certain someone a "hater" who just "doesn't get it."
I am okay with that. Some people who use strong words like "hate" are clearly very passionate. I try not to get into an argument with people like that. It's just a movie ;-)
1.) Positivity isn't poisonous like negativity and hate are. That's why you never hear people saying, "Hey you, stop being so positive over there," while addressing one another.
2.) We don't call ourselves a brigade; we're an army. Brigades are kid's stuff, honestly.
3.) I do not get upset about people not liking Skyfall, and obviously don't expect everyone to like it; a fool, I am not. I do however, feel very sorry for them, as I've said.
Actually, yes. M references the committee's opinions of the agency at the very start of the Tennyson sequence, saying that she has heard them tell her all day about how quaint the 00 section is, and questioning its purpose in modern times. From our modern day standpoint, with so much signal intelligence via satellites and other means of surveillance, at times people are understandably curious why agents in the field even exist anymore. Why pass messages through dead drops when there's e-mail, or encrypted means of safe communication? Of course, the reason we need human spies in the field is because of this very stuff. As M says, the world is far more dangerous now in the tech savvy era we find ourselves in, where anyone with an internet connection and hacking prowess can crumble companies, individuals and governments by stealing identities, cash and more, robbing them of their safety. Hacking is one of the most covert types of crime around, so much so that by the time you realize your information has been compromised, it's too late. This image of the world makes it seem far more unsafe than imaginable, which is why we need men and women like Bond around to keep us protected from men like Silva, who is the personification of the tech era itself.
Throughout the film, M's so-called "poor performance" has sparked some doubt in the committee about her usefulness and in association, the usefulness of all the agents under her jurisdiction. When speaking at the inquiry she isn't "ducking" anything, and explains her actions fully. Her team's failings are very much her own, so she is speaking on behalf of not only her actions, but also the actions of agents like Bond who seem irrelevant to the committee as a whole. She states clearly and firmly just why they are all needed.
Without Bond and his team there to protect London, who knows how much more damage Silva would've done. He wanted M and was willing to kill/destroy anyone and anything standing in his way to do it. If not for Bond and the rest of the security personnel on site at the inquiry, it would have been a far bloodier mess than imaginable. Part of the reason Bond and M go to Scotland is to avoid that kind of collateral damage, and take Silva out of his environment like he was constantly taking Bond out of his the entire film.
Hate isn't the opposite of love. Indifference is ;-)
Who said anything about opposites? I was just making a point about how anger and heated resentment do nobody any good.
I just don't see any hate here, that's all.
Please answer with a simple "YES" or "NO". I think the original topic question is a bit...lost...hehe.
Yes! Im not alone!
I feel it important to point out that i dont begrudge anyone loving SF.We all have different tastes.I just think the film is INCREDIBLY overrated.Very poorly plotted and badly staged in many areas.I didnt need to see the film multiple times to spot any plot holes, on first viewing ( iv seen it twice ) i couldnt beleive how stupid some of the events in the film were ( Silvas plan really doesnt make sense especially how he managed to escape from his glass cell in front of two armed guards facing him ).I really detest Denchs M and since the plot relied on her so much i had no empthy at all for her given her stupidity. i was so glad she died in the end that i remember thinking '' The bitch is dead! ''
I will say the film does look great and the pre title action sequence was superb ( up until the the bloody shot ).
If you thought that I called you and your comrades that moniker with even the slightest bit of earnest, I fear your levity detector needs new batteries. ;)
Just answering YES or NO lacks profound substance, an element which this forum demands we put into each post, and for good reason. If it wasn't for our so-called off the rails discussions, a lot of great comments from both sides of the Skyfall debate would have never been posted. And that would be the purest definition of criminal.
Though I think you still fail to see my attempt at levity in that designation, I would like to point out that a brigade is a decidedly small subdivision, not substantial in the slightest, especially from a military standpoint. Now, whether that factored at all into my decision to use it in the above posts is up to you to wonder.
3000 users here who "hate" SF? Hmm....I am not saying you are wrong.
I would probably have gone for "battalion" which is little less, though. Like 300 to 1000 usually. ;-)
I do however think Skyfall raised the esteem of franchise, especially in the eyes of the general public. It seems EON has raised the bar with regard to casting, stunts, cinematography, etc and it appears that trend is continuing with SPECTRE.
I was already a fan.
Well done @bondjames hehehe
=D> ;-)
And considering that an army like the United States has well over 400,000 active personnel, not counting those in reserve, that figure is beyond diminutive in comparison. In a way, it fittingly represents the ratio of Skyfall proponents to Skyfall dissenters as well, which is interesting...
But of course, this is all beyond trivial at this point.
Well, we all have mass and occupy space, so technically every living, breathing thing has substance. The other kind of substance, though? For some, that waits to be seen. ;)
NO, it didn't. My fan-man-ship was and is running at full blast thanks to Casino Royale :D :D :D
EDIT: I like to say, for me, GoldenEye filled the room with gas, and Casino Royale lit the spark ;)
But that's beside the point. This is far more interesting, IMO. Like OHMSS is getting more and more praise, the older it gets, we could see the same phenomenon, just vice versa, with SF.
When I was 11 I saw ads on TV for what looked like a very
cool movie so I bitched & moaned & got my Mom to take me to it. So after I saw DAF I wanted to see more Bond. After a few years I'd seen all the Bonds in theatrical revivals (except OHMSS) and was a good fan. During the Moore years I became irritated at the lighter approach. I bought all the novels but never got around to reading them. I became a lazy fan. Dalton did not impress me much as he looked like he wasn't having that much fun being a Double-O, and I'd wanted my man Remington Steele in there anyway. Then the long wait. Then I saw the trailer for Goldeneye, and the fuse was lit! A short time later I saw the movie and sure & certain re-ignition took place. I then read all the Fleming novels before TND came out.
Thanks Pierce, for the Bond caffeine this sleepy fan needed!