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Having said that, I just saw The Last Jedi a few days ago and I enjoyed it. There were moments I was disappointed by but overall it was a good movie. You really have to throw out any expectations you have of certain characters and so many “fans” refuse to do that.
I also love the fact that Rey’s parents are nobodies. She essentially comes from an unimportant background and is a nobody herself. Until she makes herself important and becomes a somebody.
I’ve noticed most are putting TLJ around the middle of their SW rankings and I mostly agree with that. Now that I know what to expect from this movie I think I’ll enjoy it a lot more the second time. I plan on seeing it two or three more times while it’s in theaters.
The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
The Last Jedi
Attack of the Clones
Rogue One
The Phantom Menace
Had a busy weekend but finally squeeze in a showing this evening.
It's been interesting now, at last being able to scroll through everyone's comments, to see the divisive reaction (and comparisons to SP). I'm a bit divided myself, which I guess is appropriate.
By way of summing up how I felt: after watching TFA two years ago, I wanted to go back in and see it straight again because I had such a good time. Watching TLJ, I want to go back and see it again, but not necessarily right away, and mostly to figure out what I actually think about it.
As for where I'd rank it, after one viewing it would be something like this (slightly muddled) order:
ANH
ESB
ROTJ/TFA
ROTS/TLJ
RO
TPM
AOTC
No lower than sixth but possibly fifth.
Compared directly to TFA, it seems nowhere near as universal. I'm not sure exactly what I mean by that yet. TFA was more timeless, maybe? Or more mythic? Had more a larger-than-life'ness about it? I realize TFA is derivative of ANH (and ANH is my fav, so I could of course simply be biased towards the story shape of TFA), and TLJ is anything but derivative (really rather subversive).
I just suppose I'm going to have to figure out whether TLJ is worth learning to appreciate on the merits of its existence as a 2017 blockbuster. Even if TFA was derivative of something four decades gone, it kind of went its own way (for 2015) of doing the effects practically and incorporating a soundtrack with melody and pacing itself classically, more like a 80s/90s blockbuster than a Marvel movie. TLJ feels more cut from the cloth of modern big budget filmmaking, which feels a step in the wrong direction for how TFA set up this new trilogy.
I'll post some scattered thoughts over in the spoiler thread directly.
On the whole: liked it, want to see it again, won't be surprised if I end up liking it more but won't be surprised if it stays put where first impression has it.
The Farce Awakens was just a re-hash, and that seems to be all some of the fanboys want. SSDD. Hopefully TLJ will be a vast improvement of TFA. My son has seen it and really likes it, I'll probably see it Tuesday, but I have to say that I'm not one of those who think SW is the be-all-and-end-all of cinema entertainment!
this current trilogy is sinking under the weight of the past.
That is what I have heard as well.
It would be interesting to see what Lucas' ideas were, but I guess we will never find out...
Then where the hell am I? I loved both movies.
My one gripe with TFA was that it was a rehash, but it had characters you cared about, gripping scenes, shock moments, and an overall feelgood nostalgic factor.
This new abysmal effort also rehashes certain moments, then turns them on their head in a way to try and be clever, all the while being totally void of what made TFA great - no feelgood factor, no gripping scenes, terrible script, terrible comedy, characters you don't care about because they have no backstory. The awful prequel CGI is back with a vengeance, in shoehorned, pointless scenes that don't do anything to drive the story.
My main gripes with this one is to do with the basics of filmmaking and storytelling, and little to do with any fanboy issues - other than the unforgivable way Luke Skywalker is handled, but I could have overcome that if the basics was right.
My thoughts exactly. I've yet to see it myself. Looking forward to it though.
The new characters in TFA were one of the highlights in it.
I'm still baffled at the sudden rise of the first order after the empire was dealt a crippling blow in ROTJ.
Who the hell is snoke?
Why on earth is ren so angry? At least Anakin had a half-reasonable motivation.
These new movies are bright and chirpy but extremely dumb.
Except for RO. Funny how the best of the Disney bunch so far wasn't desperately trying to recapture old magic.
How about people who don’t like either and prefer a RO
It least they are not so dumb that they give away spoilers on a thread that is clearly not meant for it and read by several people who have yet to see the film... Edit or delete your post asap!
I'm compelled to determine once and for all on which side of the fence I truly reside by taking in a 2nd viewing tomorrow. Tickets already purchased.
Disney is laughing all the way to the bank.
Lol, apologies, done.
It can only get worse @Bondjames. That script is awful.
Count me in.
I’ll start
TFA
Good:
Bad:1
RO
Good:1
Bad:
TLJ
Good:
Bad:1
Not much room for middle ground but I’d like to see where everyone lands
Good: 1
Bad: 1
RO
Good: 1
Bad: 1
TLJ:
Good: 1
Bad: 1
All opposite of yours.
Yeah, one of the things the Sequels haven't done well in the slightest is lore-building, which even the Prequels managed to do well (hence why so much spin-off material has been published on that). The Sequels just keep raising questions.
Good: 1
Bad: 2
RO
Good: 2
Bad: 1
TLJ:
Good: 2
Bad: 1
I kind of wish the options weren't so painfully black-and-white and we had rating systems instead, but I picked the ones closest to my thoughts.
Sadly this is all part of their synergy plan. Raise questions in the movies only to answer them in novels, comics, cartoons and games in the future. That's a huge problem with all of this 'universe building', the movies have to leave out so much material in order to maintain an audience for orbiting mediums. This just leaves the movie-going experience very hollow.
Sure, but the Prequels and the Originals told satisfactory stories without the need to use some Extended Universe. You could certainly ask more questions, but there was nothing critical missing in them. There is here. Hopefully IX patches some things up.
I saw TFA for the first time I love it, but it's only later you realise that only about 15% is actually new stuff.
Nostalgia was probably the second biggest factor the film had going for it. Since Lucas refused to give that with the prequels, there was a clamor. The return to practical effects, shooting on film, use of the original series iconography, etc. all helped. However, this also led to a kind of problem I've got with the new trilogy—namely, that in the process of mimicking the OT they reset the order of the galaxy: the tyrannical First Order fighting the underdog Rebels. If the prequels were the fall, and the OT was the pivot point, then I'd have liked to see a symmetry in the overall arc where this trilogy was chiefly focused on rebuilding things to the state of the galaxy as it was when we found it in TPM. Or something like that.
Of course (a) I'm not sure how you do that to dramatic satisfaction and (b) even if they thought up a way Disney was never going to sign off, because they seemed to effectively be trying to disown the prequels.
Indeed. I'm wrestling with that myself.
@ForYourEyesOnly The half of me who loves film agrees. The half of me whose gateway drug to movies was SW still goes with TFA. ;)
I am just astounded that Johnson was given free reign to hit whatever story beats he wanted. The more I've thought about it today the more this gels: TLJ kind of felt like a standalone movie. I think that's my big gripe. I enjoyed the thing as a film itself but not as the second film in a trilogy.
True, @Mendes4Lyfe. Ever since the SW acquisition was announced some reassessment of the prequel films has taken place. The releases of TFA, RO, and now TLJ has only added to that. With more SW material (importantly non-Lucas generated material) with which to compare the prequels, that was bound to happen. Although most of it is probably down to the simple fact that the people who grew up when the prequels were being released are just now old enough to intellectually/professionally engage in and add to the critique.
Even though I enjoyed TFA, it was—and is still—kind of hard for me to regard it as the continuing saga of the OT, simply because some paperwork affords it that status. Similar to the Bond continuation novels, it's the same character by name and sure it's nice to have and it's 'sanctioned' and not even necessarily of poor quality—but it's not coming from the original imagination. Whatever you think of Lucas, all six of his SW films certainly were of a vision, and that makes them more interesting to me than the new crop.