Star Wars (1977 - present)

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  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    Getafix wrote: »
    the action sequences go on way too long (seems the norm these days). I actually zoned out of the train heist. too much cgi. no one seemed in genuine peril and the score was strangely limp IMO. none of the dramatic scenes really stands out. all a bit beige. the character who dies has only been in the film 2 mins so you don't care that they've gone anyway.

    Interesting. That's how I felt about all the characters in Rogue One, and they were in the whole movie.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I thought rogue one was better. more coherent story. Mads mikkelson is more compelling. the villain is much better. the central characters are actually more sympathetic
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    boldfinger wrote: »
    "I'll wait for the home release."

    Covers all bases for me.
    Home release - isn´t that something you do in the bathroom :-))?

    As I said. ;)
  • Posts: 2,107
    I agree. Rogue One was better. I zoned out on multiple times while wstching Solo. Even had a bathroom break and I never do that, when I'm into a movie.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    SharkBait wrote: »
    I agree. Rogue One was better. I zoned out on multiple times while wstching Solo. Even had a bathroom break and I never do that, when I'm into a movie.
    You perhaps would have been better off waiting for the 'home release'. ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    ROGUE ONE was the only Star Wars film in this Disney era so far where I kept looking at my watch. Dull characters, uninteresting plot, a misuse of Vader, just blah in general. I admire the movie for having the characters sacrifice plunge into a mission where there was no way out, I just wish I cared for them.

    All other flicks I've liked overall.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I finally saw Solo yesterday and I just can't see what people are so antagonistic towards it for. The movie was pure fun, a reminder that A New Hope was a lighter movie than we clearly like to think. Alden Ehrenrich wasn't a bad younger Han, a great counterpart to how River Phoenix played young Indy in Last Crusade, and Donald Glover was the perfect young Lando.

    Back when this was announced, I was not into the idea. I didn't outright hate it, but I felt it unnecessary. Well, now that I've seen the film, I still find it unnecessary, but I find it so damned entertaining that just because it's a story I didn't need to see didn't detract from it. It had all the right elements to make it a great movie, in spite of all the backstage trouble it had.

    This and The Last Jedi have just taught me that there are some fans who want nothing more than to complain. Those people can just shut up, as far as I'm concerned. The movie was fun, it was like the best roller coaster ride from start to finish. If you didn't like it, that just means you're not all that fun.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    I agree, Rogue One was overall just bland. I didn't like any of the characters, mostly because we never really got know them, so when they died at the end I felt nothing. Most of the movie just felt like fan service and the whole thing just felt like a really well made fan movie. The part with Vader at the end was cool but that wore off after the first viewing. I will admit that I really liked Krennic though. He is the one thing that I look forward to with each viewing.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489

    This and The Last Jedi have just taught me that there are some fans who want nothing more than to complain. Those people can just shut up, as far as I'm concerned. The movie was fun, it was like the best roller coaster ride from start to finish. If you didn't like it, that just means you're not all that fun.

    You love every single SW movie?
  • Posts: 4,813
    The final 45 minutes of Rogue One is something I could watch over and over. But I agree, the movie got off to a slow start.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    Apparently Kelly Tran was cyber bullied so much for playing Rose that she quit the social media scene. Seriously?! The hell is the matter with these people? If you didn't like TLJ that's fine but to attack someone because you're a pathetic human being? Grow up and quit being so pissy over a childrens movie. It's things like this that make me embarrassed to be a Star Wars fan.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854

    This and The Last Jedi have just taught me that there are some fans who want nothing more than to complain. Those people can just shut up, as far as I'm concerned. The movie was fun, it was like the best roller coaster ride from start to finish. If you didn't like it, that just means you're not all that fun.

    You love every single SW movie?

    You're likely going to bring up the Holiday Special and the Ewok movies, but those simply don't count. Of the theatrically released movies, yes.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489

    This and The Last Jedi have just taught me that there are some fans who want nothing more than to complain. Those people can just shut up, as far as I'm concerned. The movie was fun, it was like the best roller coaster ride from start to finish. If you didn't like it, that just means you're not all that fun.

    You love every single SW movie?

    You're likely going to bring up the Holiday Special and the Ewok movies, but those simply don't count. Of the theatrically released movies, yes.

    No, I agree. They don t count.
  • RC7RC7
    edited June 2018 Posts: 10,512
    I’ll watch them all. None particularly offend me. However, the original three’s superiority is magnified with each successive new release. The first two are almost flawless examples of pop culture cinema imo.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited June 2018 Posts: 8,216
    bondjames wrote: »
    SharkBait wrote: »
    I agree. Rogue One was better. I zoned out on multiple times while wstching Solo. Even had a bathroom break and I never do that, when I'm into a movie.
    You perhaps would have been better off waiting for the 'home release'. ;)

    Hehehehe.
  • Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    SharkBait wrote: »
    I agree. Rogue One was better. I zoned out on multiple times while wstching Solo. Even had a bathroom break and I never do that, when I'm into a movie.
    You perhaps would have been better off waiting for the 'home release'. ;)

    there's nothing in SOLO that warrants a home release
  • Posts: 5,767
    Back when this was announced, I was not into the idea. I didn't outright hate it, but I felt it unnecessary. Well, now that I've seen the film, I still find it unnecessary, but I find it so damned entertaining that just because it's a story I didn't need to see didn't detract from it. It had all the right elements to make it a great movie, in spite of all the backstage trouble it had.
    This!

  • Posts: 2,107
    Fun fact: I saw both Ewok movies and the cartoon series, before I saw any of the star wars movies. You can imagine how surprised I was, when I saw ewoks in RotJ.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,092
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,177
    @Fire_and_Ice_Returns
    Please tell me you're not buying that crap.
  • Posts: 3,333
    There was a couple of things I didn't agree with in that video, but over all I thought he did a pretty good job at the getting to the root cause of the problem with Disney Wars. I still haven't seen Solo, and will stick to my decision to boycott these new movies in the cinemas until there's a major shake up behind the scenes and I feel they've taken a step in the right direction. He's correct when he says China is a lost cause though. They're just not interested in the concept because they don't have a nostalgic history with the original series.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,092
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @Fire_and_Ice_Returns
    Please tell me you're not buying that crap.

    It was an interesting watch there were a few valid points early on though it descended quickly, and the footnote was laughable.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 3,333
    Personally, I can't see what the video commentator has said that could be viewed as "crap" or even perhaps offensive for that matter. He's right when he says that the new movies have been politicised. The photo of Kathleen Kennedy and her female co-workers sporting "The Force is Female" T-shirts is testament to that. I think when he explains why China sees the modern Star Wars as "baizuo" — a Chinese word that ridicules Western "liberal elites" — and their lack of nostalgia for the series, he's voicing a genuine home truth that perhaps fans of the new Disney Wars don't want to hear or admit to. I also think he offers a reasonable counter argument to those that use Star Wars fatigue as an excuse as to why Solo hasn't performed as well as their own predecessors or Marvel, where there's no sign of superhero fatigue setting in, despite the successive releases of Thor: Ragnarok, Black Panther and Avengers: Infinity War because they've been handled so much better by Kevin Feige.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    edited June 2018 Posts: 7,854
    I love how people act like political agendas in Star Wars is something Kathleen Kennedy is responsible for. Watch the six movies she didn't have a hand in, you'll still find massive political agendas. Watch all the movies she made before being appointed to Lucasfilm, you won't find political agendas in the slightest.

    Seems like you just want to blame Kathleen Kennedy because she's wearing a shirt with a slogan somebody else came up with rather than actually paying attention to how Star Wars always has been.

    Cue the people who disagree.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 3,333
    Ok, I'll bite, @Agent007391. What political agendas were there in the original Star Wars trilogy then? I suppose you're going to tell me that the original series was an allegory for the Vietnamese war?

    Besides, no one forced Kathleen Kennedy to wear that T-shirt at the Archer Film Festival, whether it was from a Nike marketing campaign or whatever. Would George Lucas have worn a similar T-shirt? No, he would've known better than to draw needless attention to himself.

    And if you were paying attention yourself, then you'd be aware that these new Disney movies suck regardless.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,177
    When Lucas made the prequels, we were hating on Lucas. When Abrams did Ep. VII, many were hating on Abrams. Now that Kennedy is in charge, we're hating on Kennedy. Same way many here are hating on Barbara Broccoli for the Craig Bonds. Discontent is translated into "somebody's fault". And while the likes of Lucas, Abrams and Kennedy can indeed be held accountable for many choices made in their films, I find it awkward that "hidden agendas" or political trends are dragged into this like it even matters. Nothing these days seems safe. Not enough women? Sexist product. Too many women? Feminist agenda. Give it a rest, folks. Disney is playing the broadest audiences possible. And before that, Fox and Lucasfilm did the same thing. Remember the Ewoks? These are hyper-commercial enterprises. They cost far too much for an "art" status and are far too branched-out into other media to be able to risk offending half its target demographic, which in this day and age takes very little. If Star Wars did something even a bit riskier in terms of tone, all those "PC" crusaders would be all over the series, attacking it left and right. Disney simply can't afford that to happen. When people are having conversations like,

    - Black Panther is bad because it's just leftwing propaganda for Black rights.
    - No, actually Black Panther is bad and racist because it's got a black villain while it should be a white man as the villain for once.
    - No, Black Panther is too obvious pro-Black propaganda, it's going to reach the opposite effect!

    it seems that whatever you do these days, unless you're an indie film no one wants to watch, you will be loved and hated at the same time. Star Wars exists in that socio-political minefield. Always has. Ahmed Best, who played and voiced Jar Jar, was used as "proof" that Star Wars hates black people because the Black man gets to play an idiot. And before that, Star Wars was criticised for being mostly white and for having no women except the often sexualised Leia. Yet last year, Star Wars was heavily criticised for dragging too many women, Asians, blacks, ... into it. Jee-zus! No wonder people suffer from heart attacks.

    I submit to you that whatever permutations of races, genders, colours, ... they try for a Star Wars film, someone out there will inevitably complain.

    Furthermore, Solo isn't doing too well. Fine. And The Last Jedi was met with harsh criticism too. Fine. But then every idiot with a microphone and a YouTube channel posts "post-mortem", "downfall of Star Wars", "the end of Star Wars", ... videos. Yeah yeah, whatever keeps you happy. Or you can just ignore the films you don't like and focus on the ones you do like. People often forget that almost objectively speaking, only two Star Wars films are actually great: Star Wars, a near-miss, fluke, last-minute corrected mess of a production; and Empire, a dark and tonal exception in the series.

    Rogue One was bleaker than most other of the recent Star Wars films. It took risks by not pussying out at the last moment and saving a few characters from their inevitable demise. Some can't stand that film. Solo is the happy, everything-works-fine counterpart to that. Some can't stand that film. The prequels were technically speaking very original but many complained they didn't feel like Star Wars enough. Others complain that The Force Awakens was too much of a clone of Star Wars. Others still complain that The Last Jedi didn't follow The Force Awakens closely enough (while others complain it follows that film too closely.) And now that it's announced that Abrams will return to "fix" things for Ep. IV, some are already getting the pitchforks out to hate on literally everything he will do.

    I can only deduce that I wouldn't want to be in Kennedy's position. It's the Frankenstein effect. They created a monster and now it's grown too big and they no longer contain it, i.e. they can no longer appease everyone. That's okay, but since every Joe Regular wants to broadcast his own opinion on YouTube these days, there's this constant anger being kept alive rather than allowing it to settle. Some films you like, some you don't. But when I see a YouTube video that has "post-mortem" in its title, I know that's not the place where I will go for an opinion.

    I'm a Star Wars fan. I have a very low bar for Star Wars product. It's popcorn entertainment. The comics, books, video games, ... they make me happy; A Star Wars film is still a bit of an event for me. But some people seem annoyed they have to go and watch - sigh - yet another Star Wars film. Odd, because 15 years ago, we were complaining that Peter Jackson was doing it so much faster than Lucas was. Now it's Star Wars fatigue. So stay home and Crystal Skull these new Star Wars additions. That's perfectly fine. But please leave the pseudo-academic YouTube vids out of the discussion. In an age where you can have "everything wrong with Casino Royale" or "everything wrong with Christopher Nolan movies" vids, a YouTube opinion is the one thing that angers me.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 3,333
    There's a lot of truth in what you write @DarthDimi. Except, you seem to be taking aim at the very social platforms which, if I'm not mistaken, this is also very much part of. After all, discussions are still ongoing to the merits of every Bond film going as far back to Dr. No and including how rubbish Thunderball is when compared to the latest big budget entries. Same goes for each of the actor's tenures as 007. Surely that's the nature of the beast? I'm sure Disney would love to be able to control the source of fan's misgivings about their movies, but they can't have it both ways. When the fans are onside, the studio is immensely happy. But when they are not, I'm sure they wish they could simply pull the plug and only have the glowing reviews included.

    In fact, the video posted above doesn't endorse the theory of Star Wars fatigue. That's just another theory spun by a certain section of the media trying to understand why audiences have fallen short for Solo. According to today's Hollywood Reporter Solo will be the first posted loss for Disney's Star Wars empire with a domestic total of $176.1 million. They state: "Overseas, it limped to $11.3 million from 54 markets for a foreign tally of $136.1 million and a lowly global total of $312.2 million."

    For whatever reason, the fans are staying away from Solo, and despite Last Jedi having its admirers, it received a backlash. Some that loved (liked) Last Jedi won't be happy that there's a dissent in the ranks. But at the end of the day, BO and merchandise has been what the whole Star Wars empire has been built upon. Lucas got it right IMO. I'm a huge George Lucas fan myself. I've loved pretty much everything that he's done, including THX 1138, American Graffiti and Indiana Jones. Of course, I didn't think much of Howard The Duck, but you can't win 'em all. There's a lot of Return of the Jedi I don't care for, but Lucas decided to ignore Gary Kurtz when he suggested dropping the Ewoks. Kurtz stood up to Lucas and was replaced as producer on the next saga. I'm reminded of what Kurtz said about RotJ: "We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”

    The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.

    Kurtz said that ending would have been a more emotionally nuanced finale to an epic adventure than the forest celebration of the Ewoks that essentially ended the trilogy with a teddy bear luau.
    "

    I'm afraid the genie is already out of the bottle with regards to the new Disney Wars, and there's no getting him back inside. Though there is a glimmer of hope on the horizon and that's David Benioff. It all depends on whether he doesn't have a falling out with Kennedy and walks off the future project.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    bondsum wrote: »
    Ok, I'll bite, @Agent007391. What political agendas were there in the original Star Wars trilogy then? I suppose you're going to tell me that the original series was an allegory for the Vietnamese war?

    I take it you're just going to ignore the truth that Vietnam was inspiration for the Original Trilogy? Hell, the ewoks and their ability to defeat the Empire is taken directly from how the US was handed its ass by the Viet Cong. And let's not forget all the WWII inspiration spread throughout all three trilogies. Politics and Star Wars have never been apart from one another, people just don't like it now because they believe everything is politically motivated.
    Besides, no one forced Kathleen Kennedy to wear that T-shirt at the Archer Film Festival, whether it was from a Nike marketing campaign or whatever. Would George Lucas have worn a similar T-shirt? No, he would've known better than to draw needless attention to himself.

    What does that mean? She wore the shirt because she liked the message it casts, whatever the hell that is, just as anyone wears a shirt because they like it. Lucas wore a "Han Shot First" shirt during the filming of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, still maintained that Greedo shot first in his original script. No, nobody forced her to wear the shirt, but that doesn't mean she's forcing her political ideas down your throat. You're interpreting it that way because you don't like her.
    And if you were paying attention yourself, then you'd be aware that these new Disney movies suck regardless.

    That is a matter of opinion and mine is very different. I've enjoyed all four of the Disney-made movies, I enjoyed Star Wars Rebels, I'm iffy on Forces of Destiny and I'm looking forward to Star Wars Resistance. The books are more concise, the continuity is cleaner and the Force is finally magic again when so many prior tried to find stupid ways to "explain" it.

    You wanna hate what Disney's doing to Star Wars? Fine. I don't care. And clearly the box office returns for three out of four movies say that less people than you want to believe agree with you. Just as you say no one forced Kennedy to wear the shirt, nobody's forcing you to watch the movies you so clearly think aren't worth it anymore, so stop bitching and let people enjoy what they want to enjoy.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited June 2018 Posts: 17,791
    Well, I just came back from seeing Solo. The movie made me happy. It 'felt' like Star Wars to me. I might see it again. I'll definitely buy it when available. If you're a fan of the original trilogy and you're intentionally not going to see it, then you're just being silly IMO. ;)
    I'd be up for a second one if they could make it as well.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I love the original trilogy; I'm just really not bothered or interested in the backstory of Han Solo at all.
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