Star Wars (1977 - present)

1168169171173174254

Comments

  • Posts: 12,466

    I’ve actually started to swing toward this opinion lately as well. The prequels did a lot wrong, but they’ve held my interest better than the sequels on the latest rewatches. There are higher highs and lower lows with the prequels, but for me it’s been preferable over my latest watches of 7 and 8 which just felt kind of dull. I hope 9 can be the best one of the bunch, but my expectations are pretty low.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,092
    FoxRox wrote: »

    I’ve actually started to swing toward this opinion lately as well. The prequels did a lot wrong, but they’ve held my interest better than the sequels on the latest rewatches. There are higher highs and lower lows with the prequels, but for me it’s been preferable over my latest watches of 7 and 8 which just felt kind of dull. I hope 9 can be the best one of the bunch, but my expectations are pretty low.

    Agree the one thing the prequels had was George and he did not hold back for good or bad, there are some pretty insane and awesome things in the prequels
  • BondStu wrote: »
    @Agent007391 - ignore me mate. I'm being a dick. Sorry. Hope we're cool.

    But back to Last Jedi - I still stand by what I said. I'm not going to continue the personal interpretation angle cause I don't think I've got anywhere else to go with it really.

    But taking into account what you're saying (even if my recall of events is wrong) that still isn't a way I want Luke Skywalker to behave.

    The idea of the character is that he was the Sheriff who rode into town to take out the trash. The white knight. The hero. And he more than paid his dues.

    Wanting to kill his nephew? Wanting the Jedi to be gone when the galaxy needs them the most? That just ain't Luke to me.

    And THEN there's all the other stuff. I won't bore you with it unless you want me to.

    People change.
  • BondStu wrote: »
    @Agent007391 - ignore me mate. I'm being a dick. Sorry. Hope we're cool.

    But back to Last Jedi - I still stand by what I said. I'm not going to continue the personal interpretation angle cause I don't think I've got anywhere else to go with it really.

    But taking into account what you're saying (even if my recall of events is wrong) that still isn't a way I want Luke Skywalker to behave.

    The idea of the character is that he was the Sheriff who rode into town to take out the trash. The white knight. The hero. And he more than paid his dues.

    Wanting to kill his nephew? Wanting the Jedi to be gone when the galaxy needs them the most? That just ain't Luke to me.

    And THEN there's all the other stuff. I won't bore you with it unless you want me to.

    People change.

    +1

    I think TLJ had problems, but Luke’s story was not one of them.

    People change. You’re not going to be the same man that you were in your 20’s when you get to your 60’s. I’m sorry, that’s just life.

    Luke was crushed by numerous disappointments throughout his life and his mental health was stretched to breaking point. As a character, I’m sure he would have wanted nothing more than to still be that character from the original trilogy. But life got in the way.

    I think it’s kinda genius and super brave move from Rian Johnson to effectively have the final sequence be Luke committing suicide by overdosing on the force. Johnson is still able to make his death feel triumphant and a victory for that character. Smart storyteller.

    I think the response from fanboys is waaaaaaay more interesting than the movie itself. Many fanboys wanted to preserve their idea of this series and when they were denied that, they were not happy. Interestingly, the meta-narrative of Mark Hamill hating on the film could almost be a film in its own right.

    Hamill’s carer nosedived after Star Wars and the new series was his chance to revive it. Hamill wanted nothing more than bask in nostalgia and relive his youth by playing the ‘hero.’ However, much like Luke – that isn’t how life works.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Ok, I´m not that much of a SW fan, but just out of logic: Fiction is for escapism and inspiration, not for becoming disappointed.
    If your life works like that, go ahead and knock yourself out. I prefer to keep learning and get better in chosing the good stuff. If challenges keep me from doing that and instead make me drop my ideals, I haven´t passed the test.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    boldfinger wrote: »
    If challenges keep me from doing that and instead make me drop my ideals, I haven´t passed the test.

    That was the point of the movie. And Luke becoming one with the Force was actually the most natural way to end his journey as a Jedi.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    He was forced out.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Ok, I´m not that much of a SW fan, but just out of logic: Fiction is for escapism and inspiration, not for becoming disappointed.
    If your life works like that, go ahead and knock yourself out. I prefer to keep learning and get better in chosing the good stuff. If challenges keep me from doing that and instead make me drop my ideals, I haven´t passed the test.

    Yeah, movies are escapism and inspiration, but you still have people flocking to grimdark bullshit because they think anything that isn't about a mopey anti-hero is "not adult enough", which is where a lot of problems with fiction in general lies.

    But the whole "I prefer to keep learning and getting better" was literally the point of Luke's arc. He got to a point where he chose to let his failures overwhelm him and lead him to that "The Jedi need to end" mentality, but in teaching Rey and then reconnecting with the Force and talking to Yoda, he finds understands that his failures aren't all that matter.

    People like to bring up his "It's time for the Jedi to end" line as an attack against his character, but these people fail to remember he said "I will not be the last Jedi" at the end of the friggin movie. He's obviously changed his standpoint from one side of the movie to the other, a sign of progression that detractors are either incapable of seeing or simply unwilling to.
  • Posts: 5,767
    But the whole "I prefer to keep learning and getting better" was literally the point of Luke's arc. He got to a point where he chose to let his failures overwhelm him and lead him to that "The Jedi need to end" mentality, but in teaching Rey and then reconnecting with the Force and talking to Yoda, he finds understands that his failures aren't all that matter.
    Hmm... I don´t buy that.
    People like to bring up his "It's time for the Jedi to end" line as an attack against his character, but these people fail to remember he said "I will not be the last Jedi" at the end of the friggin movie. He's obviously changed his standpoint from one side of the movie to the other, a sign of progression that detractors are either incapable of seeing or simply unwilling to.
    I´m a bit guessing here, but I think people were annoyed that Luke had this meandering of feelings at all, even if they led him to progress further in the end. Because basically Luke´s temporary lapse of trust (and we´re talking about many years) is not such a clever twist, because it is quite far-fetched. One could easily argue that the stronger the force is in a person, the stronger the pull of the dark side is all life long, so that Luke´s feelings really would be an impetus toward further personal development. But I don´t see the film go in this direction at all. Instead, it makes Luke an infidel, who after all the miracles he has experienced, and after all the amazing things he has learned, still has massive doubts about himself and the world.
    I might add that I watched the film several times and was pretty well entertained. I had no problems with Luke´s development while watching the film, but I wasn´too fond of Finn and Rose ;-).
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    New trailer for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirmed to arrive on Monday, October 21st.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,092
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    The Mandalorian renewed for a 2nd season, ahead of its series premiere on November 12th.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Some critics were shown the first half hour of the premiere and the reception's been positive.
  • Posts: 1,970
    New trailer for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirmed to arrive on Monday, October 21st.

    I just can't. I am literally going to force myself to watch this last movie. The last Jedi destroyed the franchise for me.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    New trailer for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirmed to arrive on Monday, October 21st.

    I just can't. I am literally going to force myself to watch this last movie. The last Jedi destroyed the franchise for me.

    I'm always kinda baffled by comments like this. I loved TLJ and I'm not going to watch Episode IX because I know Abrams is going to undo everything Johnson did. But I don't get why those who disliked TLJ wouldn't want to watch the new one since it's going to be directed by Abrams
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Walecs wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    New trailer for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirmed to arrive on Monday, October 21st.

    I just can't. I am literally going to force myself to watch this last movie. The last Jedi destroyed the franchise for me.

    I'm always kinda baffled by comments like this. I loved TLJ and I'm not going to watch Episode IX because I know Abrams is going to undo everything Johnson did. But I don't get why those who disliked TLJ wouldn't want to watch the new one since it's going to be directed by Abrams

    First, because people believe what they choose to believe about TLJ. I had an argument at work recently with someone who hated the movie, and every point I raised that was stated in the movie itself, they threw that away because the movie "broke the lore". I don't think I can understand their feelings, but I understand and accept that they feel that way. So long as they let me enjoy the movies, I'll let them hate the movies.

    Second, Abrams has said before he's not going to retcon anything, and while it wasn't the way he would have gone, he was happy with how TLJ ended up. People need to remember that he did have a hand in how the movie was made, even if he wasn't in the director's chair.

    Last but not least, there were also enough people who didn't like TFA that just because Abrams is in charge isn't a saving grace but instead a hinderance.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,178
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    New trailer for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirmed to arrive on Monday, October 21st.

    I just can't. I am literally going to force myself to watch this last movie. The last Jedi destroyed the franchise for me.

    A bit overdramatic, isn't it? All the love you may or may not have for Star Wars flushed away over one single film? Also, you're talking about the franchise, not the film series. So TLJ even deprived you of the love you may or may not have for the film scores, video games, EU novels, comics, action figures, memorabilia, collector's items, ...? That's like saying that one particular Bond film makes you give up on the entire world of 007, including the Fleming books and the John Barry soundtracks... Again, a bit overdramatic, no? ;-)
  • Posts: 1,970
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    New trailer for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirmed to arrive on Monday, October 21st.

    I just can't. I am literally going to force myself to watch this last movie. The last Jedi destroyed the franchise for me.

    A bit overdramatic, isn't it? All the love you may or may not have for Star Wars flushed away over one single film? Also, you're talking about the franchise, not the film series. So TLJ even deprived you of the love you may or may not have for the film scores, video games, EU novels, comics, action figures, memorabilia, collector's items, ...? That's like saying that one particular Bond film makes you give up on the entire world of 007, including the Fleming books and the John Barry soundtracks... Again, a bit overdramatic, no? ;-)

    Maybe I am being a bit over dramatic.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited October 2019 Posts: 1,165
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    New trailer for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirmed to arrive on Monday, October 21st.

    I just can't. I am literally going to force myself to watch this last movie. The last Jedi destroyed the franchise for me.

    A bit overdramatic, isn't it? All the love you may or may not have for Star Wars flushed away over one single film? Also, you're talking about the franchise, not the film series. So TLJ even deprived you of the love you may or may not have for the film scores, video games, EU novels, comics, action figures, memorabilia, collector's items, ...? That's like saying that one particular Bond film makes you give up on the entire world of 007, including the Fleming books and the John Barry soundtracks... Again, a bit overdramatic, no? ;-)

    Maybe I am being a bit over dramatic.
    Perhaps it would be more accurate to say TLJ destroyed your interest in the future of Star Wars. ;)

    I’m not such a fan of the sequel trilogy, including what they did to Luke, but primarily because it ruins the purpose of the original and prequel trilogy. All of a sudden, nothing Luke/Han/Leia dud fundamentally mattered, and Anakin’s prophecy meant bupkis. TFA already made a mistake interfering with the conclusion of Lucas’ story when it should have taken place hundreds of years into the future, and TLJ was the final insult for me.

    A more realistic portrayal of life? Perhaps. A good fit for a fantasy adventure series meant for families? About as well as 9/11 metaphors did for Man of Steel/Batman v Superman.
  • Posts: 12,526
    New trailer for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirmed to arrive on Monday, October 21st.

    Excellent! Will look forward to seeing what is released tomorrow? :-bd
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Minion wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    New trailer for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirmed to arrive on Monday, October 21st.

    I just can't. I am literally going to force myself to watch this last movie. The last Jedi destroyed the franchise for me.

    A bit overdramatic, isn't it? All the love you may or may not have for Star Wars flushed away over one single film? Also, you're talking about the franchise, not the film series. So TLJ even deprived you of the love you may or may not have for the film scores, video games, EU novels, comics, action figures, memorabilia, collector's items, ...? That's like saying that one particular Bond film makes you give up on the entire world of 007, including the Fleming books and the John Barry soundtracks... Again, a bit overdramatic, no? ;-)

    Maybe I am being a bit over dramatic.
    Perhaps it would be more accurate to say TLJ destroyed your interest in the future of Star Wars. ;)

    I’m not such a fan of the sequel trilogy, including what they did to Luke, but primarily because it ruins the purpose of the original and prequel trilogy. All of a sudden, nothing Luke/Han/Leia dud fundamentally mattered, and Anakin’s prophecy meant bupkis. TFA already made a mistake interfering with the conclusion of Lucas’ story when it should have taken place hundreds of years into the future, and TLJ was the final insult for me.

    A more realistic portrayal of life? Perhaps. A good fit for a fantasy adventure series meant for families? About as well as 9/11 metaphors did for Man of Steel/Batman v Superman.

    See, the problem with something like that would be the fans bitching and moaning about how it's "not Star Wars", and that they're just using the name of the franchise for money. I'd applaud something set in the saga's distant future, personally, but TFA had to strike a balance of bringing the saga back and doing something new.

    And in the end, what they did was nothing new, so to speak. The pre-Disney EU did all of this way back in the 90s, up to and including what people claim was "making everything in the OT not matter".
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited October 2019 Posts: 7,314
    The thing that irked me most about Luke's arc was that I just couldn't see him turning his back and abandoning everyone that he ever cared about. He always went out out of his way to help others and yes, of course people change throughout their lifetime (duh), but that was just a step too far for me.

    Let me reiterate that I'm not a RJ hater. I don't call him Ruin Johnson or any such nonsense. I've even defended some of his decisions in this very thread. In fact, I think the idea of Luke denouncing the Jedi is an interesting one. After seeing his father and nephew fall to the Dark Side, it's easy to understand how he could think something was very wrong with their teachings. Plus, you can also see how he might feel bitterness and resentment towards Yoda and Obi Wan for not being entirely honest with him from the start and using him for their own purposes.

    Exploring this idea of Luke losing his religion per se was compelling and surprising, even if I readily admit that it's not where I wanted the story to go, which is where I'd imagine most of the disappointment lies. However, with that being said, there have been countless examples in history of people overcoming tragedies and bettering themselves. It's not easy, but I felt Luke had the strength and determination inside of him to do it, as we've seen before. Not everyone chooses to crawl into a hole and die after experiencing some hardships.

    So I do think Luke would've come back to help his sister, who he loved more than anyone, even if it wasn't as a Jedi. I understand that he felt like he failed her, but after some time had passed he should've realized how much Snoke was manipulating the situation (which Leia could have helped to him to accept) and this portrays him as bit stupid as well I feel.

    I can't really say that I see anything clever at all in his death scene. Poof the Magic Jedi that disappeared by the sea. In the end, it was all for nothing. He should've left that island and done something worthwhile. They ended up making Luke Skywalker out to be a mentally ill homeless man that we all see every day in our cities throughout the world and that's just so sad. Did we really need to take Star Wars to that level? I think that's where some of the outrage comes from.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157

    Second, Abrams has said before he's not going to retcon anything, and while it wasn't the way he would have gone, he was happy with how TLJ ended up. People need to remember that he did have a hand in how the movie was made, even if he wasn't in the director's chair.

    The very teaser shows Kylo Ren's mask being repaired
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Walecs wrote: »

    Second, Abrams has said before he's not going to retcon anything, and while it wasn't the way he would have gone, he was happy with how TLJ ended up. People need to remember that he did have a hand in how the movie was made, even if he wasn't in the director's chair.

    The very teaser shows Kylo Ren's mask being repaired

    Not really a retcon. If it showed the mask perfect with no damage, that would be different. There's some way the mask reflects Kylo's new mental state that's happened because of the events of TLJ, I'm sure of it.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    We'll see, but I would be shocked if Rey won't be revealed to be Palpatine's granddaughter or Obi Wan's or something like that.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Was their meant to be a trailer today?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Was their meant to be a trailer today?

    Seems to be Monday night in the USA, so very early morning for us Europeans (around 2am or 3am).
  • Posts: 12,526
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Was their meant to be a trailer today?

    Seems to be Monday night in the USA, so very early morning for us Europeans (around 2am or 3am).

    ok, thanks for the heads up DaltonCraig! :-bd
  • Tickets are also supposed to go up after the trailer premieres tonight. Looking forward to it!
Sign In or Register to comment.