Star Wars (1977 - present)

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  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    matt_u wrote: »
    The course correction Abrams and Disney did in TRoS was caused primarily by the Civil War that happened between fans after TLJ. So those supposed fans - fueled even by Mark Hamill - are really the one to blame for such a schizophrenic finale. TRoS is a big middle finger to Rian Johnson entry. That’s frustrating. We are talking about a film
    Spoiler
    that makes canonic Palpatine fucking LOL and having a child.
    . Something that makes Brofeld a bold idea.
    matt_u wrote: »

    Johnson had a clear vision. Like it or not he was able to make a SW film open to the future. He made bold decisions and ironically TLJ is the only film of the sequel trilogy Lucas really appreciated.
    +1 to both posts

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited December 2019 Posts: 4,343
    Interesting, because there’s interviews of him saying he was wrong for doubting in RJ’s take on Luke. That’s the kind of stuff that gets edited out by those fueling their hatred for TLJ.

    That look by the end.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=eZlw64mI228
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,378
    My Ranking...
    Original Trilogy
    TESB
    SW
    ROTJ
    Prequels
    ROTS
    AOTC
    TPM
    Sequels
    TROS
    TFA
    TLJ
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,213
    matt_u wrote: »

    That look by the end.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=eZlw64mI228

    I sympathize him, those press junkets can be tedious.
  • Posts: 6,710
    Just came back from it. As far as damage control, that was well done. I'm not a fan of this new trilogy, nor was I a fan of the prequels. I like episode 4 and 5, that's all. Oh, and I enjoyed bits of RO, and I've forgotten most of Solo. Am enjoying the Mando, though, specially the last episode. About episode 9, well, it was a fun ride, that's all. All practical effects were fine. The fights were fine. The story and the 1+1=11 element were forced, yes, but they had painted themselves into a tight corner. So, I'm not fanatical about SW and I enjoyed it. Is it a good film? No. Is it good entertainment? Yes, why the hell not? If one indulges in that sort of escapism. It's space opera, FFS. Don't take it too seriously, that would be my recommendation. Now let me obsess with a British secret agent ad nauseam as if life itself depended on it :-D
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,378
    Univex wrote: »
    Just came back from it. As far as damage control, that was well done. I'm not a fan of this new trilogy, nor was I a fan of the prequels. I like episode 4 and 5, that's all. Oh, and I enjoyed bits of RO, and I've forgotten most of Solo. Am enjoying the Mando, though, specially the last episode. About episode 9, well, it was a fun ride, that's all. All practical effects were fine. The fights were fine. The story and the 1+1=11 element were forced, yes, but they had painted themselves into a tight corner. So, I'm not fanatical about SW and I enjoyed it. Is it a good film? No. Is it good entertainment? Yes, why the hell not? If one indulges in that sort of escapism. It's space opera, FFS. Don't take it too seriously, that would be my recommendation. Now let me obsess with a British secret agent ad nauseam as if life itself depended on it :-D

    That's pretty much my attitude, Star Wars jumped the shark way before Episode 9, so I just switched my brain off and enjoyed it much like I do when I watch my prequels, Rebels and Clone Wars blurays etc... At this point if Star Wars is fun I am happy with that.

    Star Wars truly ended for me with ROTJ, and that was far from being a perfect movie.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,378
    Spoiler

    Apparently this is the referenced message from Palpatine in TROS.

    They should have put this in the film.
  • Posts: 6,710
    Star Wars truly ended for me with ROTJ, and that was far from being a perfect movie.

    Exactly the way I feel.

    Although I'll always be around for the ride. I'm now enjoying Mando and will probably have a hoot with Ben Kenobi.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,378
    Univex wrote: »

    Exactly the way I feel.

    Although I'll always be around for the ride. I'm now enjoying Mando and will probably have a hoot with Ben Kenobi.

    I will always watch SW for sure, unfortunately Mando has not aired in the UK yet, I will watch it despite stumbling on numerous Spoilers (which is almost unavoidable).
  • Posts: 6,710

    I will always watch SW for sure, unfortunately Mando has not aired in the UK yet, I will watch it despite stumbling on numerous Spoilers (which is almost unavoidable).

    So far I really didn't like two episodes and I loved all of the others. Hope you seen it soon.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,714
    matt_u wrote: »
    Johnson had a clear vision. Like it or not he was able to make a SW film open to the future. He made bold decisions and ironically TLJ is the only film of the sequel trilogy Lucas really appreciated.

    Where did George express this appreciation?
  • Posts: 2,107
    I feel dirty for being in the minority. Youtube especially is a loud place right now. Only sensible youtube reviewer, who doesn't shout at the camera or calling it bantha poodoo or bad fan fiction was Chris Stuckmann, who said he didn't hate it and has to see it again to get a better grasp on the movie.

    Of course comments are something like, be honest with us. If you have to see it twice, it must be bad.

    I always have to see SW twice. Whether it is bad or not. Okay, I didn't see Solo twice, but you get the point. I actually feel bad for liking TROS after I've only seen it once. Like there's something wrong with me and that I'm not a real fan. So dirty.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited December 2019 Posts: 8,213
    He said it was “beautifully made”, which is the only positive remark I’ve read him make on the sequel trilogy. Only other compliment was for Rogue One, I think.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,714
    He said it was “beautifully made”, which is the only positive remark I’ve read him make on the sequel trilogy. Only other compliment was for Rogue One, I think.

    Okay, I thought it was that. Does that not seem to others to be excessively faint praise?
  • edited December 2019 Posts: 2,107
    He also didn't hate it. Says early on his review. But some youtubers loathe it, which is their right. I just mean I feel bad for liking it. Those who have always said sequel trilogy is bad get their last laugh.

    Edit: quit fandom I must. Hide on swamp planet I will.

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,378
    Personally I think Disney will be happy to move away from the 'Skywalker Saga', now they have a clean slate of sorts (with the films) let's see what ideas they can come up with that are not weighed down by being linked to past movies.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited December 2019 Posts: 1,714
    Birdleson wrote: »

    Better for everyone.

    As a guy who thought this alleged trilogy was hilariously ill-conceived, I think future SW from Disney is likely to be a lot better.

    I thought TFA and TLJ were both terrible films in the context of this saga, but they were legitimately enjoyable to watch in their own way. I can understand George when he said "there are a lot of movies that are badly made that I love, and there are a lot of movies that are just beautifully made but I don't like them."

    Removing the need to follow up on stories very definitively finished 35 years ago can only be good.

  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165

    Here's the thing, Mark Hamill loved what RJ did with Luke. He had his concerns at first, but seeing how it played out he said he was ultimately wrong. And then a bunch of fans on the internet basically use only the soundbites from interviews of his initial concerns to drive a narrative that Mark Hamill was really unhappy with the movie and the treatment of Skywalker. It's total disingenuous bullshit. And what's worse is that when these fans are confronted with Hamill's endorsement of RJ's decision they just write it off as Hamill being forced/paid by Disney to lie, turning the whole thing into a conspiracy.
    Angry-Ham.gif
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,213
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  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    The Cinemascore rating for TRoS is a B+. That makes it the only Star Wars film to get below an A-. B+ is really bad for blockbusters.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Very interesting to see this huge variety in reactions toward TROS.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
  • Posts: 6,710
    SharkBait wrote: »
    I feel dirty for being in the minority. Youtube especially is a loud place right now. Only sensible youtube reviewer, who doesn't shout at the camera or calling it bantha poodoo or bad fan fiction was Chris Stuckmann, who said he didn't hate it and has to see it again to get a better grasp on the movie.

    Of course comments are something like, be honest with us. If you have to see it twice, it must be bad.

    I always have to see SW twice. Whether it is bad or not. Okay, I didn't see Solo twice, but you get the point. I actually feel bad for liking TROS after I've only seen it once. Like there's something wrong with me and that I'm not a real fan. So dirty.

    I like Chris Stuckmann. A man with good taste. Most of the time.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,043
    I'm not seeing TROS till 02/01/20 IMAX, on my own as my Wife just refused to see anymore disappointing films with me as she put it.

    While I don't worship TLJ I certainly preferred it to basically remaking Star Wars (as we used to call it for those who saw it on original release). No TLJ isn't perfect but I'll agree with those that said it did try to do something different.

    Now I'm not one for YouTube commentators and this guy can get annoying but some of the criticisms by some of the fans are in my totally debunked here for me.

    I understand people not liking the tone or the way some things are tossed off when someone expected more weight but the motivations of Luke in TLJ are all over the original trilogy. This guy literally show you that Luke's so called change of character that doesn't fit with the previous films is just peoples plain hating the film. The journey of Luke from this explanation makes perfect sense and although Johnson does fall off course sometimes his dealing Luke's arc is pretty spot on.



    I understand being disappointed with a film in a series you love, I'm guilty as the next with SPECTRE but it won't change my feelings on 1917, I might even go and see it in the New Year.

    Thankfully the feelings on Johnson for some did not affect the success of Knives Out. It looks to be doing great business.

    Though you can tell the TLJ haters a mile off on social media when they say any film from the director of Brick and TLJ was always going to make a pile of rubbish or words to that affect.

    Its like they had decided on their opinion before they watched the film, I doubt some of them were even aware of Johnson's output previously to TLJ to hear some of them speak.




  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I understand being disappointed with a film in a series you love, I'm guilty as the next with SPECTRE but it won't change my feelings on 1917, I might even go and see it in the New Year.

    One thing I noticed is that no Bond fans ever reacted to SPECTRE the way SW fans reacted to TLJ.

    When I saw so many people hating on TLJ I tried to understand their feelings. Bond is my Star Wars, so SPECTRE being such a disappointed for me was akin to TLJ being a disappointed to SW fans. But then I realized that no, even then I can't understand such a hatred toward a piece of fiction.
    Certain fans bullied and are still bullying Johnson on Twitter, they started a petition to get Disney shoot a new version of SW 8, created a subreddit dedicated to insulting TLJ and those who made it and use every single occasion to bring up the fact they didn't like it.

    Really, if a guy says he's going to get married with Leia's theme as the soundtrack, a girl says she baked a Darth Vader cake for her boyfriend or a father bought a lightsaber-toy for his children - if any of these things are said on a social media there will 100% be someone saying "too bad Ruin Johnson ruined Star Wars so now the saga sucks!"

    Bond fans are not like that - thank God. SPECTRE was disliked by many and to this day we still nitpick when we talk about it (I'm guilty of that) but no one does it to the same extent of a TLJ hater.

    If Bond fans had reacted to SPECTRE the way SW fans reacted to TLJ you can be sure there wouldn't even be a "NTTD thread" because everyone would start saying they no longer have any interest in the series because of that one film.
    The thread "Rate the various villains" would be made of posts like "Why bother ranking them? They're all better than Waltz's Blofeld!"
    "Should 007 head to a streaming service?" would only get "Who cares? It's gonna be a family soap opera about Bond and his brothers" replies.
    "The James Bond Movie Trivia Quiz" thread would only get questions like "guess who killed all my passion for James Bond? That's right, Sam Mendes!" "Guess what's the worst movie ever shot on this planet? SPECTRE!" and so on.

    The hatred toward TLJ has become so annoying that I had to unsubscribe from every Star Wars dedicated page because you couldn't even say "I love the Imperial March" without getting a reply along the lines of "Too bad this theme now symbolizes the father of Jake 'Failure' Skywalker".
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,714
    I think if TLJ was the 24th film in a series of mostly ad hoc standalone movies, the reaction would have been calmer. Taking the hero of IV, V, and VI and having him completely reverse course offscreen, in a manner rather different to what was being suggested in VII, and with one movie left to wrap things up, I can see why that would be extremely off putting.

    I'm not emotionally invested in these things, so I just ignore these movies. I do wonder though, and I'm genuinely curious, how fans of TLJ would have liked to see this nine-film saga wrap up? Like, in a way more in line with what Johnson was doing....
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited December 2019 Posts: 8,213
    Fans, particularly “grown” men, have been bitching about Star Wars since 1997. Nothing new.

    As for how I feel IX should have gone... That’s just something I leave to the filmmakers, that’s why I don’t subscribe to fan theories. Problem is the filmmakers/producers/executives assigned to this don’t seem to have had an idea where to go without pleasing EVERYONE when it was inevitable that certain sections were never going to be happy.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited December 2019 Posts: 1,165
    SP is also aided by the fact that is it isolated to Craig’s Bond timeline. It doesn’t have any affect on any of the Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, or Brosnan films, which were entirely disconnected anyway. The entire Sequel Trilogy retroactively ruined 40-years of one intertwined story told across film, TV, books, comics, and video games. The most people will accuse SP of is cheapening the previous three movies.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited December 2019 Posts: 1,714
    Fans, particularly “grown” men, have been bitching about Star Wars since 1997. Nothing new.

    As for how I feel IX should have gone... That’s just something I leave to the filmmakers, that’s why I don’t subscribe to fan theories. Problem is the filmmakers/producers/executives assigned to this don’t seem to have had an idea where to go without pleasing EVERYONE when it was inevitable that certain sections were never going to be happy.

    They had no idea whatsoever about anything. After Episode VI, Star Wars becomes pretty wildly ad hoc and subject to the whims of individual directors. I don't subscribe to fan theories either, but as a thought experiment, try to think of anything that could wrap up this saga after VII and especially VIII.

    SW fans aren't necessarily that hard to please. Rogue One showed that. The Mandalorian is showing that. I've seen neither, but fans seem to like them. I think if you make something that looks like Star Wars and isn't a meta narrative designed to thwart the hopes or expectations of the most ardent fans with regard to well-established characters, you can make these movies four times a year. Ask Marvel about this.

    "Well, shucks, if you didn't like Luke making a map to find him and then shutting off the Force and his family and being grouchy, I guess there's just no pleasing you people!"... That doesn't really follow
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,213
    Whether a series of 4, 8, or 24 films doesn’t really excuse how petty and childish those toxic SW fans behaved.
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