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Well, if you go to the force dot net boards, which I think is the biggest SW community out there, about half of users seemed to not like it. Virtually none have done anything toxic. Virtually all have been lumped in with a few buttheads on Twitter and given alternative and unfair explanations for why they didn't like the film. Some have even claimed that Mark Hamill loved his character in TLJ! ;-)
Honestly, I've found it far easier to find fans of TLJ discussing the film as if it's more than a film, but rather some kind of litmus test for human decency. This can even be found in negative reviews of TROS. It's bonkers.
"Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything." ~ The Force Awakens
Honestly, I have no idea. IMO the trilogy was doomed from the start.
I mean, just ignore the sequel trilogy and pretend it didn't happen, people have been doing that with the prequels for 20 years. Even then, that doesn't justify being a jerk to those who enjoy the saga.
Exactly.
I was clearly alluding to the mod edit on social media harassing the filmmakers and actors.
Didn't that Asian actress from the last 2 films had to quit social media because she was harrased/insulted/racially abused by fans who blamed her for ''ruining'' The Last Jedi? As if she was the one who wrote the script. Amazingly embarrassing fanbase.
Of course. But why is this miniscule fraction of the vast numbers of people who disliked TLJ always brought up in discussions of the film's merits? What does it have to do with anything other than how awful this less than a percentage point of people is? Is liking this film part of the war on these idiots? Is there any toxicity in routinely equivicating between bigots and people who think TLJ is a poor SW film?
More notably making fun of her ethnicity and body shaming.
Mainly because it’s not usual for actors in franchises to be harassed to this extent. It’s only been brought up in this thread in relation to how Bond fans don’t dogpile on actors/filmmakers for what happened with SP.
Social media is a megaphone. It distorts the truth.
I firmly believe that people got upset as they had this idea in their heads of something different or the spin offs etc led them to believe that Luke would be somewhere else.
The whole Kylo Ren thing was not Johnson's idea and to me if you look at how whiny, defeatist and at times how much Luke defies what he is told by wiser and more experienced characters in the OT the point RJ picks us up with Luke at does not seem out of place at all.
It is only really at the end of ROTJ that Luke becomes a Jedi proper so if his journey hits a bump like with his nephew and he reaches a point where he attempts to kill him, is not believable to think he might be a danger.
His own nephew he tried to train has turned to the dark side, yes Luke could have not cleared off and left his friends. Though to me the idea that he felt he best served his friends and family was to disappear as he felt his power was too dangerous to be manipulated by the dark side.
Also his family hasn't exactly got a great track record when it comes to them staying on the light side, what with his Father and now his nephew. It makes total sense that I might feel that if he was pushed the wrong way he might succumb as well.
Luke was actually being the hero that we always wanted him to be, not the hero that we deserve but the hero that is needed. Just because he wasn't Obi Wan mark 2, which I think quite few expected.
Also the way he comes to the conclusion the Jedi was a failed movement also has more than validity, it was select bunch of members that felt they were unique and were some kind of guardians yet their choices and blindness led to the almost eradication of their kind.
Lets face it they weren't too perceptive or that wise in the long run. Luke came to the conclusion that there needed to be balance to the force, both needs to exist for the balance to be there.
I don't how this play out in TROS as I haven't seen it yet, although I have a feeling this is undone from I am hearing from other without descending into spoiler territory.
At no point have I lumped in those with genuine, well reasoned criticisms with the trolls online. And as far as I’m aware Lynch hasn’t been harassed online to the point of deleting her accounts. Were ugly remarks made? Yes, but not to the extent of SW trolls.
Well, in the originals, especially after the context of the prequels, part of the point is that Luke was right and Obi and Yoda were wrong. They thought Vader couldn't be redeemed and Luke knew he could.
He didn't need to realize they were wrong later. He knew. And the last generation of Jedi finally dropping the ball does not mean the entire history of the Jedi is one of failure. Rian's narrative doesn't really gel without a fair amount of imagination and benefit of the doubt.
I mean, I guess Luke could think the Jedi were wrong because they doubted Vader could be turned. And then he decided that Kylo can't be turned. It's all just bad theming, reminiscent of the handling of self-sacrifice in the film.
I know exactly what you mean. I love the originals, and actually quite like the prequels as well for what they are, but the original 1977 SW is to me the one movie in the series that's truly great. You dive into a complete world, in the middle of a story, but you get it.
I think as early as ESB, some bloat and self-seriousness set in a bit. Not too much there, but it kind of grew as it went, certainly with the prequels, and in recent films it's off the charts.
Even as a fan, if I were to watch ROTJ, TFA, and TLJ back to back, I think I'd be pretty confused....
Of course I may have taken that beyond what you're saying, but I do agree.
I'd be interested to know how many YouTube videos were floating around prior to 2017 which discussed the mopey, pessimistic streak of Luke Skywalker. Because it certainly came as a surprise to Mark Hamill and most viewers! Which was likely the point, given that the film is largely dedicated to subverting expectations.
It's also odd that Yoda, who is immortal and can apparently now interfere with physical objects with magic lightning, not only neglected to do anything about the new Empire, but also waited (years? decades?) to communicate with Luke to give him that nudge. And when he did, he acted like fake drunk Yoda.
It's all so odd
Jedi weren't that great as they let Palpatine take over the senate and then before they knew they were all but exterminated.
Their ways were outdated not open to evolve and they had somewhat of a superiority complex.
Yoda did train Luke and Obi Wan to some extent but I'm not sure they were that open to looking outside of their circle. The whole point of broom boy was to say no you don't have to be part of some lineage, it is possible for some orphan who isn't related to the one of the most powerful Jedi's in the movements history, to learn the ways of the force.
If TROS undoes this idea I can't say I'll be too happy. Although I'm aware something like this will happen so I am just going to go in and hope I have a good time with it.
To be honest I grew up with the OT when it was originally released and then waited with baited breath for the PT and was left incredibly disappointed.
Although I'll always love the OT especially the IV & V I think my reaction to the PT did the damage so by the time I heard about another trilogy to cap off the 9 story arc I was excited but the not on the level I was waiting for the PT.
I don't get so upset about the films like some fans who clearly invest more in this franchise than me.
Whereas Bond despite disliking the PB era Bond is different especially in light of my love of the DC era that when SPECTRE wasn't what I expected. I got quite vocal and to some here and others possibly OTT about the whole step brother thing (although that isn't my only issue with it by far). My emotion here is much more stronger as I invested in it as much as I did.
In comparison the new SW trilogy I was anticipating but Bond eclipsed everything in the blockbuster arena except Nolan's DK trilogy for a period of time.
So maybe as I wasn't emotionally attached to TLJ allowed me not to get too wound up about it like I do Bond and step away from it.
I don't really follow anything outside of the films, I've not watched any of the cartoon spin offs read any of the SW universe novels, so I don't have an expansive knowledge outside of the films like I do Bond. Star Wars is definitely a significant part of my life but not on the level that Bond is.
As well as me personally being able to justify what Johnson did I'm just not that involved to care too much is what I'm saying.
Though I'm not vilifying Sam Mendes on social media and to me my views on what happened with SPECTRE are at times just as frustrating as some are of TLJ.
I hope he never comes near Bond again but if it happens I won't be starting sammendesnottodirectanotherbondfilm.com . Bond fans I think are not anywhere as hyperbolic about their love.
Things can get heated but I hope danielcraigsnotbond is the pinnacle of this type of thing.
I get people not liking the film for some of the choices but to suggest Johnson just presented an entirely different Luke Skywalker in his film to the OT is a real stretch and I think sometimes people have built up an idea in their head of where he would be and when he wasn't although narrative wise it makes sense (to me anyway) they got very frustrated that something they regarded as theirs had been tarnished.
I get more some of the choices like Mary Poppins Leia, the Canto Bight segment etc. being a reason to dislike it but the idea Johnson didn't have a clue about Luke just doesn't hold any water for me. The way he made the Jedi an example of a movement that as it was needed to die so that it could evolve and learn was different and taking the series off in a different direction rather than almost remaking Star Wars Episode IV. TFA was safe and most likely what the new trilogy needed to pull in its audience but I would have expected something like ESB to follow it and TLJ is nowhere that but it did try something different in my eyes and to some extend succeeded.
To me Blofeld being Bond's childhood nemesis is much more a load of contrived nonsense.
Also the whole toxic treatment of a female member of the cast is just disgraceful. I hated Jar Jar from the moment I saw him but when I heard that Ahmed Best was almost driven to suicide by the fan boys out there I was horrified, it is a film for f**** sake, there are far more things worth getting upset about.
If Bond fans turn on Lashana Lynch, (the most likely suspect due to some of the unsavoury things said about her on this very forum) like that I'll be disgusted that we could stoop so low.
I worry that we might get some traffic turn up that might well express those views, certain members thankfully banned have already gone too far, so the sooner we get to the film we'll gather more members and possibly with agendas to express.
The right wing tabloids and press are already winding up people with some of their so called scoops on the film, the whole 007 thing.
I hope not but the behaviour of some on the internet nothing will surprise me. I'll be interested to see if JJ starts to get some of the abuse that RJ had to endure and if Johnson snapped just looking at a a sample of what people still seem to harbour for the director then I'm not surprised.
It seems it is OK to treat people with such contempt without any consequences.
I also always thought that Luke's approach to the Force was meant to be different to his teachers, more compassionate. The Jedi Order was gone before the first movie came out. Luke's was not going to be identical.
However, just judging this on its own... it's okay. Many things I liked and didn't like. I also felt like a lot was unexplained. Probably need to see it again, but am still confused about a couple of major plot points.
Once again, this trilogy suffers most from a lack of vision right from the start. JJ started it and then Rian took a left turn and then JJ just went right back to where he began. He took more chances than I thought he would, but I thought the ending was horrible. Terribly let down by how cliche it all was.
Disney cocked this all up, looking back on it. The OT deserved so much better sequels, with an original story that felt like it needed to be told, not just rehashing everything that came before. Relieved that the Skywalker Saga is over to be honest.
Then there's all the unused material like discovering the microbiotic world of the Force and a bunch of weird mod edit like that. No tie fighters vs x-wings, just more medichlorians!
Originally, I was against that idea because I wanted to be surprised. If you're going to discard the whole EU then you better come up with something better and sadly, they didn't. Disney really dropped the ball.
Personally, I was never really all that heavily invested in EU, old or new. I've read a few, but never took them as seriously as the films. I'm not even that invested in the TV shows. CLONE WARS had a few good eps from what I saw, but nothing about them grabbed me enough to keep watching. THE MANDALORIAN is pretty entertaining, but it's become more of a time killer for me than something I'm deeply invested in. Never saw REBELS. For me, it's only the films that truly matter, even the god awful prequels.
Two legends
Fans already did that with the prequels. That's because humans are inherently arrogant and believe they know better than anyone else.
Just like I never thought I would get to see a Star Wars film where
:P