Star Wars (1977 - present)

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  • edited December 2019 Posts: 503
    I don't really have much of an interest in Star Wars, I didn't grow up with the originals or the prequels. But I've gotten into The Mandalorian and absolutely love it. Especially the little Baby Yoda character, it's so funny. I feel like some of the humor from the show reminds me of the subtle humor in the Bond films. Carl Weathers' character is the comic relief and this scene had me rolling:



  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489

    Sounds like rubbish, to be honest. But I suppose it sounds better than "we thought the character was rubbish and we had no idea what to do with her".

    Finn, Rose and Poe were all rubbish characters. Shame about Finn as the premise in TFA was an interesting one.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Finn, Rose and Poe were all rubbish characters. Shame about Finn as the premise in TFA was an interesting one.

    Was there ever an idea floated about Finn attempting to convert more Stormtroopers into Resistance fighters, similar to himself? There should have been.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited January 2020 Posts: 2,722
    SPOILERS!

    Finally got round to seeing TROS. The logistics and motivations in this film and series is a mess. So many unnecessary characters added, some of them as late as the end of the second act. It seems like the filmmakers don't have the clarity or confidence to just focus on their main characters' journeys.

    Daisy Ridley was once again great and the film was very much hers.
    Adam Driver is a fantastic actor - see 'BlackkKlansman', 'Girls' or 'Marriage Story' for evidence of that. But here he seems a little lost. He had a much better time of it in Last Jedi.
    While Oscar Issacs and John Boyega have more satisfying roles this time in TROS than 'The Last Jedi'.
    Interesting to see the character of Rose getting the Jar Jar treatment.
    A character who seemed to have a disproportionate amount of time in TLJ was General Hux - and here he gets dispatched without ceremony and with few lines said. He's replaced by the excellent Richard E Grant. The introduction of the emperor smacks of desperation and they even rip off The Goonies when lining up the Death Star ruins with the map!

    The first third was engaging. The action scenes - especially infiltrating the Imperial transport were fun. But while the visuals are excellent and the atmosphere of the emperor's throne room is creepy, the ending is wholly predictable.

    The film struggles under the weight of Fisher's death, response to fan criticisms and not seeming entirely convinced of its characters journeys. The finale's focus is rightly on Rey, but the series has telegraphed Kylo-Ren's redemption since The Force Awakens and then everyone else just kind of peters out.

    I can vividly remember seeing The Empire Strikes Back at the cinema in 1980 - only the second movie I'd ever seen at the point. It was transforming and magical. Likewise I'm glad people are excited by the new trilogy, I would never begrudge anyone's cinematic joy but they're not for me.

    But there was a NTTD trailer before the movie!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker 2019

    Gives us a thrilling spectacle no doubt and lets us see some old friends again but I have to question JJ and Terio's choices here story wise and the return of Palpatine is just lazy and it's connection to Rey.

    I know not likely to be the most popular opinion but I'd have liked to see how Rian Johnson would have handled this trilogy had he been given the reins instead of JJ.

    I much preferred how Johnson was dealing with Rey and the way it is re-engineered here is just lazy and somewhat predictable.

    If only they had set out a vision from the get go, let other film makers be involved but have had something mapped out, what we have here is a very strange three story arc where the final act contradicts a good bit of the middle one.

    Also did a 10 year old write the crawl at the beginning?

    I didn't hate but I didn't love it, definitely the worst of this new trilogy.

    6/10

    Saga Ranking

    1. Empire Strikes Back
    2. Star Wars
    3. The Last Jedi
    4. Return of the Jedi
    5. The Force Awakens
    6. The Rise of Skywalker
    7. Revenge of the Sith
    8. The Phantom Menace
    9. Attack of the Clones



  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    That’s my exact rating of the saga as well.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,107

    If true none of this would be surprising.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,043

    If true none of this would be surprising.

    This makes total sense, the film feels so disjointed, the whole Hux moment is just WTF.

    I'm sorry I've less tears for JJ as I think that Rian Johnson was taking the story somewhere different. I watched TLJ again New Years Day in prep for TROS, I'd watched the TFA before Christmas.

    TFA is very enjoyable but once again I found myself thinking this was just a more expensive and expansive version of Star Wars episode IV, nothing really new and just a safe film to get the series restarted.

    I accept that and understand the reasons for it, though it needed to break new ground come the next episode of this trilogy, which it did.

    I had preferred TLJ from the moment I saw it, bearing in mind I had not watched the film since the original release when I saw it twice on the big screen.

    I wondered how TLJ would sit with me 2 years later, no it isn't perfect, that first hour has some ripe moments but about an hour in it kicks into a gear and has some of the best moments of the series.

    The fans biggest problems with TLJ, Rey not being from any rich Jedi lineage and how Luke is presented to me where what was right with the film.

    Rey being from something different other than a Jedi parentage was quite brilliant and RJ clearly wanted to take this somewhere new. It opened up the idea of Rey being something new and all the bitching about Luke not being the mighty Jedi when they saw him.

    This is total BS and comes from fan boys with a mixture of an idealised version of Luke in their heads and taking too much of what boils down to published fan fiction for granted.

    Below is an at time annoying youtuber making a case for Luke's representation in TLJ as nothing new or sacrilege, it is actually how Luke has been throughout the OT.



    Yes if we had not gone down the route of Luke training his nephew and it all going wrong and he was actually with the resistance and training Jedi than maybe curmudgeon defeatist Skywalker would have seemed odd and out of place.

    Though RJ inherited this plot point from Kasdan, JJ and whoever else was involved, so he took it where he thought it would logically go.

    The idea that Luke would leave his friends and family and abandon the Jedi makes total narrative sense if you follow the whole Ben falls to the dark side plot element.

    Luke reverting back to his old self rather than being wise and all knowing when Rey meets him, it is a surprise to her as she doesn't know him but us the audience who know Luke so well from OT and factoring in what has happened with his nephew makes to me perfect sense.

    If Rey had turned up on Ach-to and Luke was a mighty Jedi and willing to teach her everything would have made no sense at all, if he was fine with teaching her and was now the Luke fan boys had in their heads what was the point of him abandoning everything and turning away from everyone.

    Luke does this as he can't come to terms with the idea that he for a second was going to kill his nephew Ben, he saw the danger of this, his power and how this could lead to him going to the dark side.

    Whether his decision to abandon everyone and turn his back on all his teachings and companions might seem extreme if you look at the Luke in the OT this makes total sense.

    Why wouldn't Luke revert back to moody and defeatist in light of this?

    TROS is a horrifying Frankenstein of a film, a mixture of what JJ wanted, though wanting to reverse what RJ had set up but then also Disney having other considerations not necessarily for the benefit of the film.

    Yes the report says you can take it with a grain of salt, though the film on display for me anyway backs this up as at times it feels like whole chunks are missing and it goes nowhere, as I said earlier the Hux moment, again WTF, where did that come from?

    It doesn't feel organic to the story it has no relevance it is just a moment to move the story on.
    The crawl is the worst of the whole saga and sounds like a 10 year old wrote it.


    If I was as invested in Star Wars as I was Bond I would see this as I do SPECTRE, there does seems some parallels.

    I would see this film as one to upset the fan base much more than TLJ. I will now be interested to see if TLJ might be seen differently in light of TROS.

    The one thing I did take from my IMAX as well as a thrilling, confusing mess of a film looking quite stunning visually as I was what I think is one of the first people to see the Tenet Prologue in IMAX in this country.

    Now boy does that look like a treat.

  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    TLJ is more visually arresting and has some standout moments. But it is awkwardly paced, has Rey rushing all over the place in the second half of the movie. It also is the moment when I realised that the filmmakers had no idea where the story was headed and other than Rey and Kylo-Ren they didn't know what to do with any of their characters - especially Finn. The logistics of everything is messy as hell in that movie and they spent so much time on that casino planet freeing beasts and they introduced Rose...why? It's such a clunky narrative...and that's just my problems of TLJ...now TROS was even worse. But I was expecting it and I got it.

    TROS is flat out goofy in parts. The first thirty minutes is like a pinball machine, but ironically it maybe my favourite segment of the film. Certainly isn't the middle third of the movie where people bounce around searching for mcguffins. It's also the second SW movie in a row where the deus ex machina is a LOTR Helm's Deep steal. (TLJ has the people slipping out the side door - TROS has an army show up at the last minute - or is that a Braveheart steal...or a game of thrones steal...jeez...its a epic cliche either way you slice it.)
    They've never had confidence in what story they wanted to tell - and TROS painfully confirms it.

    i wasn't a fan of how they used any of the original main three in the new trilogy. It was obvious that their journeys had been told - especially Luke and Han. In fact Han's was done by the end of ESB to be fair and Luke's wrapped up by the end of ROTJ. We didn't need to see Luke giving into fear in TLJ when he had already faced it and overcome it in ROTJ. It was ill conceived from the beginning and Han was a sad loser, Luke a grumpy hermit and Leia lacked that spark or humour that she had in the originals. None of it was to any real purpose from a storytelling point of view. I liked the idea of the force being universal - so why didn't they do that from the beginning? All of the first order/ new resistance rehash with Snoke as the new emperor was lazy. And then they actually bring back the Emperor. It's just a shame the couldn't focus on one journey and tell it well. And have the fortitude to do it original from the beginning rather than hedging their bets constantly. The audience would have still been there.

    I think TLJ will eventually be seen as the best of the new trilogy but for me...and it pains me to say it...but I prefer the prequel triology to the new one. Give me emo Anakin slicing up younglings any day. The soundtracks are better too. But most importantly, they have clearer narrative and character journeys. They're poorly executed and cheesy...but I'd still put on Revenge of the Sith over any of the new sequels (but not Attack of the Clones!)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited January 2020 Posts: 24,179
    I'm currently watching THE MANDALORIAN. It's a truly amazing achievement and Baby "Yoda" is astonishingly cute. Of course, it does struggle with the same issues pretty much every television series struggles with at some point, such as less interesting standalone "conflict of the week" episodes, but the overall idea and the limited number of episodes effectively avoid tedium.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm currently watching THE MANDALORIAN. It's a truly amazing achievement and Baby "Yoda" is astonishingly cute. Of course, it does struggle with the same issues pretty much every television series struggles with at some point, such as less interesting standalone "conflict of the week" episodes, but the overall idea and the limited number of episodes effectively avoid tedium.

    Really enjoyed it as well. The last couple of episodes were a blast. Looking forward to another season.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Agreed with everything you said @Shardlake on TLJ. I’d say this was a strong case of “never meet your heroes”. A lot of fans like Rey have this idealized version of Luke in their heads, but where Rey never watched the OT films we at least did and should remember the pessimistic side of Luke as it was his greatest character flaw.
  • conradhankersconradhankers Underground
    Posts: 229
    I'm with the fandom menance on this one. They basically took George Lucas' modern mythology and destroyed it with SJW nonesense which we are seeing in the demise of Dr.Who, Star Trek and I'm sure in NTTD. Thankfully the SJW didn't get into The Expanse or The Witcher.

    How can you make the chosen one a daughter of the Sith? This basically made all the previous movies irrelevant, what's the point of them when they don't matter at all? A great cast wasted. Disney made it up as they went along. Now there are around 4 different cuts floating around, I want to see the Lucas cut of TROSW...with the secret jedi.

    Instead of:

    'What's your name?' 'Rey...Rey...Star Wars'. Looks at two suns and wipes away Luke's importance and the Lucas EU.

    These films are trash and they have to be burned out of canon.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I'm with the fandom menance on this one. They basically took George Lucas' modern mythology and destroyed it with SJW nonesense which we are seeing in the demise of Dr.Who, Star Trek and I'm sure in NTTD. Thankfully the SJW didn't get into The Expanse or The Witcher.

    How can you make the chosen one a daughter of the Sith? This basically made all the previous movies irrelevant, what's the point of them when they don't matter at all? A great cast wasted. Disney made it up as they went along. Now there are around 4 different cuts floating around, I want to see the Lucas cut of TROSW...with the secret jedi.

    Instead of:

    'What's your name?' 'Rey...Rey...Star Wars'. Looks at two suns and wipes away Luke's importance and the Lucas EU.

    These films are trash and they have to be burned out of canon.

    Hyperbole alert!
  • conradhankersconradhankers Underground
    edited January 2020 Posts: 229
    I'm with the fandom menance on this one. They basically took George Lucas' modern mythology and destroyed it with SJW nonesense which we are seeing in the demise of Dr.Who, Star Trek and I'm sure in NTTD. Thankfully the SJW didn't get into The Expanse or The Witcher.

    How can you make the chosen one a daughter of the Sith? This basically made all the previous movies irrelevant, what's the point of them when they don't matter at all? A great cast wasted. Disney made it up as they went along. Now there are around 4 different cuts floating around, I want to see the Lucas cut of TROSW...with the secret jedi.

    Instead of:

    'What's your name?' 'Rey...Rey...Star Wars'. Looks at two suns and wipes away Luke's importance and the Lucas EU.

    These films are trash and they have to be burned out of canon.

    Hyperbole alert!

    As an under-represented hyperbole minority here, you must respect my right to express myself, you hyperbolist.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I just have a hard time taking anyone that sincerely uses the term “SJW” seriously.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I just have a hard time taking anyone that sincerely uses the term “SJW” seriously.

    They are SIWs.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm currently watching THE MANDALORIAN. It's a truly amazing achievement and Baby "Yoda" is astonishingly cute. Of course, it does struggle with the same issues pretty much every television series struggles with at some point, such as less interesting standalone "conflict of the week" episodes, but the overall idea and the limited number of episodes effectively avoid tedium.

    Glad you enjoyed it! I binged the lot after I saw TROS and it was a significant palette cleanser. I enjoyed the deliberate pacing and the western feel. The singular character focus was a smart choice and a few of the episodes were absolute crackers -SPOILERS - the jawa's stripping the ship and the prison break episodes were excellent. The dialogue was a highlight and the comedy stormtroopers bantering and not shooting straight in the final episode was good value.
  • conradhankersconradhankers Underground
    Posts: 229
    I just have a hard time taking anyone that sincerely uses the term “SJW” seriously.

    They are SIWs.

    Probably the biggest movie youtube channel a few years ago - Collider - has almost died. Things like Movie Talk, Heroes etc I used to love have been cancelled. Why? It's not because of SIW it was because of SJW editorial narratives - a fact that one of the Jedi Council stated before they left. Bond is in trouble.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I just have a hard time taking anyone that sincerely uses the term “SJW” seriously.

    They are SIWs.

    Probably the biggest movie youtube channel a few years ago - Collider - has almost died. Things like Movie Talk, Heroes etc I used to love have been cancelled. Why? It's not because of SIW it was because of SJW editorial narratives - a fact that one of the Jedi Council stated before they left. Bond is in trouble.

    Bollocks
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,107
    I used to watch AMC it was a decent watch back then with Harloff, Ellis, Campea and Schepp (R. I. P.) Soon as Collider took over its been on a slow slide, Collider from what I have read and listened to recently see no value in the shows they have cancelled and are more interested in the Deep Fake Saga and getting large sponsorship deals, you only have to look at the viewing figures of shows like Movie Talk people are not as interested in that format as they once were.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 11,425
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Went to see the film today. And I *bleeping* loved it!
    It's expensive fanfic that gives the casual viewer the finger. And I *bleeping* loved it!
    It's a caffeinated, short-attention-span love letter to Star Wars. And I *bleeping* loved it!
    Will see the movie again soon.

    I got the following trailers:
    - Soul
    - Mulan
    - Tenet
    - The King's Man

    No NTTD...

    Saw it last night. Enjoyed it but felt very JJ Abrams. As you say for fans with short attention spans. The pace just doesn't let up and felt it could have benefited from a few slower sequences to let the whole thing breath. Plus doesn't it all get a bit Lord of the Rings/fantasy worldish towards the end? And rushed. There are some beautiful sets here. Thought the wreck of the death star was great but again we whizzed through it a bit.

    I think TLJ will come to be seen as the best of the sequels. More interesting story and ultimately better pacing.

    Still they've salvaged the franchise from the wreckage of Lucas's prequels and these last 3 are all pretty entertaining. It could have been a lot worse.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • Posts: 4,615
    The pacing has been a real issue for me for all of the last three movies. I watched Jurrasic Park over Xmas and, if anything, IMHO, it gets better with age and some of this goes down to the pacing. Spielberg really knows his stuff and is not afraid of killing the pace, letting the characters grow and giving the audience respite before the next big set piece (of course, he did this in Jaws aswell), the scene with Dern and Attenborough eating ice cream is a good exampple. But, it's not rocket science. I can't work out why so many modern directors (including JJ) seem to struggle with this side of things.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Totally agree. The 2 JJ Abrams star wars movies both suffer from manic pacing. They're like computer games. A shame as they won't stand the test of time.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited January 2020 Posts: 25,107
    I think fast pacing is a trick used to disguise the fact that some films have either no substance or are littered with plot holes. If a film is frantic the audience rarely has time to think about what they are actually watching.
  • I think fast pacing is a trick used to disguise the fact that some films have either no substance or are littered with plot holes. If a film is frantic the audience rarely has time to think about what they are actually watching.

    That was pretty much Ian Fleming's self-confessed method of writing his novels!
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