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Star Wars (1977 - present)

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  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Getafix wrote: »
    Totally agree. The 2 JJ Abrams star wars movies both suffer from manic pacing. They're like computer games. A shame as they won't stand the test of time.

    I think The Force Awakens is far better paced than The Rise of Skywalker.
  • 2Wint2Kidd2Wint2Kidd
    Posts: 698
    Agent007391 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Totally agree. The 2 JJ Abrams star wars movies both suffer from manic pacing. They're like computer games. A shame as they won't stand the test of time.

    I think The Force Awakens is far better paced than The Rise of Skywalker.
    +1
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    I think fast pacing is a trick used to disguise the fact that some films have either no substance or are littered with plot holes. If a film is frantic the audience rarely has time to think about what they are actually watching.

    Totally agree. If in doubt speed it all up.
    It does suggest a slight lack of confidence in the material and actors as well.

    It's a sort of "move along now, nothing to see here" approach to film making.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited January 2020 Posts: 5,426
    Why does no one point fingers at Kathleen Kennedy? Everyone is upset with J.J. Someone says they prefer the Prequels to the last three and I would say the difference is that there is no one person looking over the last three. I would argue that in her role Kathleen Kennedy was supposed to be that person. Funny we heard a lot about her with regards to TFA and then slowly not much else. Shouldn't she had been the one to make sure there was a coherent story told?

    I felt cheated by the ending.
    If it was me and I was scripting it. Ben would be the one to be on Tattotine at the end and he would tell the lady that he is a Skywalker. To have Rey do it strikes me as weird. Cause now the redemption of Ben is overshadowed, and now Rey is a Skywalker but she's the great grand daughter of Palpatine???

    Disney trumpeted Kennedy at the start of this journey. She should wear the blame and be the one accountable for the uneven final three.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,106
    I think JJ takes the fair ground approach to film making and wants to take the viewer on a fun roller-coaster ride, I don't mind his films though see them for what they are. His Star Trek movies especially Into Darkness is very similar to The Rise of Skywalker when you stop and think about both films not much makes alot of sense and a multitude of conveniences occur. I still think TROS is the most enjoyable film from the Sequel trilogy despite its obvious flaws.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited January 2020 Posts: 1,165
    @thedove

    I think KK deserves a majority of the blame, not only for jettisoning all the post-ROTJ material out there in the EU, but for also approving rushing this new trilogy out without a plan. Star Wars’ return will now forever be known as a missed opportunity, and there’s no recovering from that.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    To be fair, Lucas was going to dump the old EU even if he hadn’t handed the company to KK. He’s always regarded it as not reflecting his vision. Whatever he was going to ultimately do with the ST it was inevitably going to conflict with what the EU had done and all that post-ROTJ material was going to be discarded as non-canon.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    I enjoyed this trilogy and the last one was actually enjoyable as well.
    Like my daughter of sixteen said this is my Star Wars and your have your star Wars trilogy, we both like ours best. And that is fair as neither of the nine movies from the series is something brilliant, except for the Empire strikes bad if we lose the incest moment (which proves for me that Lucas also made it up as he went along).

    A big shame we never are going to get some Solo sequels as it had this mad energy that would have made future installments a joy.

    Rogue One is just an excellent movie and has its place in the SW well deserved.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited January 2020 Posts: 7,314
    thedove wrote: »
    Why does no one point fingers at Kathleen Kennedy? Everyone is upset with J.J. Someone says they prefer the Prequels to the last three and I would say the difference is that there is no one person looking over the last three. I would argue that in her role Kathleen Kennedy was supposed to be that person. Funny we heard a lot about her with regards to TFA and then slowly not much else. Shouldn't she had been the one to make sure there was a coherent story told?

    I felt cheated by the ending.
    If it was me and I was scripting it. Ben would be the one to be on Tattotine at the end and he would tell the lady that he is a Skywalker. To have Rey do it strikes me as weird. Cause now the redemption of Ben is overshadowed, and now Rey is a Skywalker but she's the great grand daughter of Palpatine???

    Disney trumpeted Kennedy at the start of this journey. She should wear the blame and be the one accountable for the uneven final three.
    Plenty of fans are upset with Kennedy. She absolutely is to blame for this trilogy feeling so disjointed. I don't care if you prefer JJ or RJ, the fact is that these two guys had a completely different vision on where to take the story and TROS has so much crammed into it because JJ wasn't sure what to do after TLJ. To be fair, she did offer RJ the chance to do Episode 9 but he declined. Had he done so, I'm sure it would have flowed better. As it is, it's a complete mess.

    There should've been a plan in place at the beginning. Apparently, Trevorrow was let go because he had big plans for Luke in Episode 9 and he didn't want him to die in TLJ. Also, TLJ split the fanbase. Even on here, you can see some love it and hate it with a passion. JJ was tasked with trying to come up with a movie that pleased everyone.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    thedove wrote: »
    Why does no one point fingers at Kathleen Kennedy? Everyone is upset with J.J. Someone says they prefer the Prequels to the last three and I would say the difference is that there is no one person looking over the last three. I would argue that in her role Kathleen Kennedy was supposed to be that person. Funny we heard a lot about her with regards to TFA and then slowly not much else. Shouldn't she had been the one to make sure there was a coherent story told?

    I felt cheated by the ending.
    If it was me and I was scripting it. Ben would be the one to be on Tattotine at the end and he would tell the lady that he is a Skywalker. To have Rey do it strikes me as weird. Cause now the redemption of Ben is overshadowed, and now Rey is a Skywalker but she's the great grand daughter of Palpatine???

    Disney trumpeted Kennedy at the start of this journey. She should wear the blame and be the one accountable for the uneven final three.
    You clearly are not a Redditor. Every other Star Wars comment on Reddit is an insult to Kennedy or a criticism of her management of the Sequel Trilogy
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 5,993
    Just for fun :



    And more fun :

  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,615
    I dont think that changing directors and writers, in itself, is a bad thing. Lets not forget that the original trilogy had three different directors. I could also add that RO had another director/writer but these 4 directors seemed to have understood what made SW's great. As with Bond, the basic DNA of SW is pretty basic. You dont have to over think it or try too hard. You follow the basic rules/guidelines and you execute them well. You can have tonal shifts but there are lines you dont cross. IMHO, we have 4 movies within the series that respected this and we can all see the results when directors and writers either try too hard or don't have the insight, sensitivity and understanding to "carry the torch".
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The only SW movies I didn t see in the cinema were the prequels, except for TPM when they re-released it in 3d (a waste, the 3d was poor). There is some great imagery in both AOTC and ROTS, so sorry I missed out. Family life made cinema trips rarer in that period.

  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,157
    The original trilogy was overseen by Lucas, though. The sequel trilogy wasn't. Because of this, Episodes 4-6 feel thematically coherent and Episodes 7-9 don't. Also, Lucas had an idea about how the story would end, Abrams had no clue and purposefully set up lots of mystery boxes for the sake of doing so even though he didn't know how they'd be solved.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,615
    I think we have seen via Bond that a series can outlive one man's vision. You are spot on with your point re Lucas but it's not as if his vision, values etc were very complex. It should have been perfectly possible to keep up the traditional values within Lucas's vision. One could say the same thing with Star Trek and Roddenberry. Meyer simply understood what made ST great and carried on the tradition. JJ does not. Perhaps JJ should direct the next Bond so he can trash a trio of cinema icons?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Not having a journey for your main character mapped out from the beginning is the most basic of errors. It beggars belief that they didn't know where it was going and the only solution was to throw more subplots into cul-de-sacs.

    I'm not coming at this as a SW expert with tons of knowledge. I adored the original trilogy and rewatched it many times but I've never delved into the expanded universe. (Other than "splinter of the mind's eye" and Han Solo books written in the 70s). I really don't care about EU. I'm more interested in it from a writer's point of view and in that regards it's an irrefutable mess.

    Rogue One is the cinematic highlight of the Disney tenure so far. It's first half is a little wobbly but its second half is the most consecutive minutes of great Star Wars since the original trilogy.

    The Mandalorian was good fun and simply constructed with a singular vision by a show runner (Jon Faverau)
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    I don't support the complaints about J.J. directing his films at light speed. That is one thing how films should be IMO. I think the first halves of ST and ID are marvellous entertainment.
    At all, it's funny to read complaints about quick pacing on a site populated by James Bond fans.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,157
    The problem with light speed is that Abrams' movie don't even give you a second to realize what is going on on screen. When I left the theatre after watching TFA I couldn't remember a single character's name (except for the old ones) nor what the heck just happened because it was too confusing. Things just happen because they have to; the Millennium Falcon is on Jakku... for some reason. Poe is still alive... for some reason. What's the state of the universe? Wasn't a new Republic built after the Empire fell? Who knows, now we're back to "Empire vs Rebels"... for some reason. This new character, Maz Kanata, has Luke's lightsaber... for some reason. Han's son turned to the Dark Side... for some reason. "Good questions, for another time" - yet that time never arrives. That line is pathetic.

    No James Bond movie has quick pacing issue, as far as I'm concerned. All Bond movies explain who the characters are and what is going on on screen.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    @Walecs, that is most unfortunate. I never had these issues when I watched TFA. Quite the opposite, I was bothered when they brought back old characters, because I felt the new ones were doing really well on their own at the beginning.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Classic scene.

  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,846
    My ranking


    1. Empire Strikes Back
    2. Return of the Jedi
    3. Star Wars: A new Hope
    4. Episode 2 (Natalie Portman in the outfit is why... Also I refuse to call it attack of the clones as that is such a stupid title)
    5. Revenge of the Sith: the ending is such a down beat ending but I understand why it had to happen that way
    6. The Phantom Menace
    7. Rise of Skywalker
    8. Force Awakens
    9. Rogue one
    10. The Last jedi


    never saw Solo...

    so uhm yeah The prequels are better then the sequels sorry every Disney Star Wars film I saw just felt like they were put together by a factory... the other 6 films for better or worse felt like there was passion behind it...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489

    It is what it is.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Neither do we, mr Hamill
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited January 2020 Posts: 25,106
    The garbage sequel trilogy is over thank god.

    The STAR WARS is dead, long live the STAR WARS
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,106
    Marvel’s Kylo Ren #2 comic echoes a big rumor about future Star Wars movies
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/comics/2020/1/8/21055723/marvel-rise-of-kylo-ren-2-comic-new-star-wars-movies-high-republic-era
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489


    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Marvel’s Kylo Ren #2 comic echoes a big rumor about future Star Wars movies
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/comics/2020/1/8/21055723/marvel-rise-of-kylo-ren-2-comic-new-star-wars-movies-high-republic-era

    Going way further back in time has always seemed like the best way to go.
  • 2Wint2Kidd2Wint2Kidd
    Posts: 698
    When Rey is able to force heal, isn't she using the dark side of the force? Rewatching Revenge of the Sith, the ability to cheat death is the reason which turns Anakin to the dark side in order to save Padme.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,106
    Thunderfinger wrote: »

    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Marvel’s Kylo Ren #2 comic echoes a big rumor about future Star Wars movies
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/comics/2020/1/8/21055723/marvel-rise-of-kylo-ren-2-comic-new-star-wars-movies-high-republic-era

    Going way further back in time has always seemed like the best way to go.

    I agree as they won't be restricted creatively by the Original Trilogy, going back 400 years would be great because of the potential world building, the world building in the Prequels is the best aspect of those films.
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    When Rey is able to force heal, isn't she using the dark side of the force? Rewatching Revenge of the Sith, the ability to cheat death is the reason which turns Anakin to the dark side in order to save Padme.

    I recently rewatched TROS, they really are quite careless with the established law of SW and that's not even including the retcons. I can't take the Sequel trilogy seriously though I will watch them and enjoy aspects.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    When Rey is able to force heal, isn't she using the dark side of the force? Rewatching Revenge of the Sith, the ability to cheat death is the reason which turns Anakin to the dark side in order to save Padme.
    Force heal seems less cheating death (depending on how dead you think Rey was when Ben healed her at the end) and more giving your own life force away. Baby Yoda in The Mandalorian can also Force heal. The opposite of this is Palpatine's Force drain, which he uses to steal life force from Rey and Ben. That seems more like a "cheat death" move than giving your own life to heal others.
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