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+1. Agreed with everything you said. I’m sure eventually I’ll come to enjoy the sequels the way others have; I went through a (short) period where I despised the prequels, but then learned just to roll with it, and have fun. Still have to play KOTOR though...
The original Star Wars will always be special because it was the first, but The Empire Strikes Back being as good as it turned out effectively immortalized the franchise. A bad first sequel would have stopped it right on its tracks, and an okay sequel might have helped squeeze out one more film but not inspire much beyond that. A beloved film with a sequel people often cite as the best of the franchise? After that, there's no stopping it, not even bad sequels/prequels.
Well fine, leave it at that then.
I actually checked out some other thoughts on this after chatting about it last night, and I found Mark Kermode's podcast where he ranks the SW films and ranks Force Awakens above Star Wars too, as does his podcast colleague, so at least I'm not alone! :)
I honestly don't think it's a controversial viewpoint. If you strip out the nostalgia, as a movie on its own merits it just doesn't work quite as well.
I think Hamill is not very good in general, and to be honest I was bit confused by all the praise he got for TLJ because I saw an actor really struggling with the material. He just seemed to be doing that Harrison Ford impression he does a lot: pretending to be gruff and grumpy isn't the same as playing a character who is like that, and he just didn't convince for me at all. If he hadn't played Luke in the original films there's just no way they'd have cast him in that role in TLJ, he's not up to it.
In a similar way to Alec Guinness being great for 'old' Obi Wan, but if his younger self had magically been around and available for the prequels he wouldn't really have been right for that role (except of course Guinness was always good! :) )
If we're going to talk about the quality of the actors of the originals vs sequels I'd say the sequels have a better core line-up. Yes, you've got Ford in the first three and he pulls an awful lot of dead weight for the other two, although even he isn't fully formed as a star just yet- it's amazing how much stronger he is in the two sequels. Whereas in the sequel trilogy you've got Boyega, Ridley and Isaac, who are all properly good actors: Boyega in particular is great in TFA I think. And Isaac is a very successful film actor with good reason.
On another note, I think it’s great to see fans of Star Wars on Instagram and other places embracing Hayden’s return with the Kenobi series; love ROTS and it’s largely because of him. Can’t wait to see what’s coming! Mostly excited for Kenobi and Rogue Squadron, and The Acolyte sounds like it could be cool too.
I wasn't trying to end a discussion, merely introducing yet another way of looking at things.
Didn't mean to insult anyone. If I came off that way, I apologize. I was merely suggesting that the SW universe is so incredibly diverse in so many ways, it's difficult to find two people who agree on most things. Sometimes people go at it defending their viewpoints like they're some objective truth when clearly, there's no such thing. Hence, "pointless". But you're right, the word itself was clumsily chosen and again, I apologize. Obviously, I do appreciate quality discussions on this forum. I never meant to say, "stop it!".
Of course, we are. Have I claimed anything else?
But I still believe that "lazy filmmaking" is what we're going to get. SW adventures throw a lot of things in the mix, but they're rarely going for waterproof story-telling. Once you start asking questions, you will tumble down one heluva rabbit hole. One of the reasons I enjoy reading so much SW EU is because hired authors like Luceno and Stover can sometimes clear things up with surprising elegance. Right now I'm reading the novelisation of Ep. III, simply because I wanted to sort a few things out. You see, I too have standards, I too care about good and tight narrative. But I'm also willing to concede some of that in favour of good spectacle and sweet fan service. And SW films have always structured their stories in such a way that there is some logic but at the same time tons of "???" moments. And I don't mind as long as they're not too problematic.
Well, we certainly agree then! ;)
Hell, bring back Ben Solo from the dead and say it's the will of the Force. I don't typically care for characters returning from the dead as Darth Maul and Boba Fett were really just glorified henchmen, but seeing a resurrected Ben Solo? Intrigue me. It was very short sighted of them to kill him off when there could have been a lot of potential in seeing how characters react to a villain turning good. Anakin never had to face the consequences of his actions after his turn from Vader, but you could have easily done that with Ben Solo. Would Rey stand up for him? Would he try to integrate himself back to society? Would he just leave the galaxy feeling he doesn't belong? So much potential, but J.J. had to replay that ROTJ beat of a redemption being followed up by death.
If it weren’t for the character he played in ESB, we wouldn’t have the brilliant show The Mandalorian we’re enjoying now. He injected so much mystery and intrigue into Star Wars with the character of Boba Fett.
Don't miss the post credit scene. Wow!
Sounds great.
Star Wars should always capture the imagination that's when it is truly great. The penultimate episode had some great character moments.
Me too. Many tissues were harmed in the watching of that episode. Best single hour of non-theatrical content I have ever experienced.
Omg, reading this stuff is making my expectations very high
It's not that good. It's like Phantom Menace level good. For TV it's great.
Boba fett you mean ?
Mark Hamill
@HamillHimself
14h
Seen anything good on TV lately?
Inclined to agree. It seems to me that people are so happy and surprised (good for them, honestly) about the character's actions in the proceeding scene that they're forgiving some very poor VFX work.