Star Wars (1977 - present)

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  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Loved them both.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Just saw Rogue One (2016). So-so.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Rogue One for me. See my review a few pages back :-)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    In many ways, I feel that RO is a better SW prequel than the official prequel trilogy. Lucas should and could have made this film himself, but instead he chose to make his prequels something else entirely.

    Here's the thing. For years I'd been wondering about the events that would lead into Star Wars. Then the prequels were announced and I was excited. Finally, we were going to learn about the rise of the empire, about the massacre of the Jedi, about Darth Vader's turn to the Dark Side, about the rebellion, ... I figured the first film would show us Anakin, a young Jedi, being turned, fighting Obi-Wan and changing into Vader. The second film would give us the rise of the empire, show us how evil Vader can be, how the Jedi were killed. The third film would show us the rise of the rebellion and also those mysterious Clone Wars that I knew nothing about. I expected to see Vader in full action, and the misery brought about by the empire, and subsequently the rebellious forces coming together and whatnot.

    But that's not what happened. Anakin wasn't turned until the very end of the third film, and only after a very prolonged psychological descent, spanning the whole of three films... Wow! But him being the most evil person in the galaxy? Still hadn't seen it. Still left hungry. How the rebellion came into existence? Well, we get some lip service at the end of Sith but little else. The evil empire? Oh good, just seconds before the end titles start rolling, we see the Death Star under construction.

    Lucas shied away from his own near-perfect trilogy. That's why we spend most of our time fighting droids instead of Storm Troopers. That's why some space ships look kinda like X-wings and star destroyers, but really aren't. Things felt different in PM but that was OK. Surely they would have gotten all the familiar elements restored by the end of the second film? No, we'd get slivers, and not until the very end of the third film, which is too late. Vader's big evil moments? Nothing! The massacre of the Jedi was effective, sure, but the rise of the empire through those clones wasn't nearly satisfying enough.

    The prequels got their priorities all wrong. They delayed, and delayed, and delayed... until there was barely time left to quickly show us Vader! Luke! Leia! Tarkin! Death Star! Yoda goes into exile! Obi-Wan goes into hiding! Quick, fellas! We have this checklist to complete. We spend more time on Anakin as a child (why?) and the mystery of the clones (why?) and war between the Naboo and battle droids and the trade federation and ... (why? why? why?). In the end, few of those things matter. The trade viceroy were quickly dealt with on Mustafar; did we ever need them in the first place? Furthermore, on the one hand, Lucas wanted to expand the myth by introducing all of these things, on the other hand, he folded his universe up by having coincidence after coincidence. Hey, isn't it coincidental that the future Lord Vader also built C-3PO? My, my... And how convenient that Obi-Wan - who "can't remember having ever had these droids" - spends most of the prequel trilogy accompanied by them. Oh and Chewie is part of the Wookie battle in Sith. It never made sense to me why Lucas made his universe smaller while at the same time telling such a confusingly expansive story.

    I understand the temptation to think out intricate plots and whatnot, but that's not what we wanted. In the end, what we wanted, to see the events that lead into Star Wars, hadn't been delivered. We learned about the trade federation but would never talk about that anymore. We learned about the clone factory on Kamino but would never talk about that anymore. We learned about Padmé's home planet but would never talk about that anymore. Rather, the things we would talk about in Ep. IV, V and VI were barely addressed at all. Lucas took some little details and expanded them into entire acts or even entire films. Anakin was a good pilot. So, we get all of the Pod Race stuff. Impressive, don't get me wrong, but a waste of trilogy time. We learn about the Clone Wars, so we need clones, so we need a place where they are built, so we need a dark conspiracy to have them built and used against another insurrection, also controlled by Palpatine, so we need droids to be fought by the clones, so we need an entire first film to show us the menace (yeah, right) of the droids as they are deployed by another group, so we need the trade federation to serve as that other group, so we need a planet where the trade federation can put its blockade, so we need Naboo... And in the end, NONE OF THAT MATTERS! Couldn't we have just started with Anakin in Jedi Academy or even already on active duty with Obi-Wan, then seduced by the Emperor to the Dark Side? What's wrong with that? LOTR doesn't show us Sauron as a cute boy, now does it? That story established early on who are the good guys, who are the bad guys, and what's going on. And that's how we prefer our fantasy. Star Wars was no different in '77, and it worked miracles! Had that film been edited a little bit different, or give a weaker score than William's masterpiece, or had some parts been given to other actors, Star Wars might have been one of those forgotten blunders. Instead, the simplicity of the story combined with a few lucky choices in terms of cast and crew, propelled SW to eternal praise. I often wonder; if Lucas had been given the time, money and technical tools to tell his story as he saw it right away, would Star Wars have been as successful? I mean, if he hadn't been forced to control himself and go for a "less is more" approach, who knows, Star Wars might have been just like Lynch's Dune: confusing, impossible to comprehend, ... One of the reasons Jupiter Ascending failed, is because it tried to squeeze an entire trilogy of myth building into one film. With the prequels, Lucas tried to squeeze a good dozen trilogies into three films, and only got away with it because we were coasting on a lot of SW goodwill.

    George Lucas is Mister Star Wars and as far as I'm concerned can, or rather could, do what he wanted. That doesn't mean I have to like it though. I have trained myself to be entertained by the prequels, but films like RO hit me in the face and hit me hard, by showing that things could have been simpler, better and cooler too. This could have been the third prequel. Clean, concise and leading directly into Star Wars. And this time I HAVE seen Vader be evil. And this time I HAVE gotten my familiar X-wings and Tie-fighters and ... I understand that the original trilogy was hampered by budget constraints and technical limitations, but the result is nonetheless something we all love. A small group of people, impressive but location specific battles, cute adventures and very simple logic overall. And the only man dissatisfied with that is the creator himself, who would go on to compensate for it by stretching his mythology to a Tolkien order of magnitude and turning half the prequel story into a Saturday afternoon soap series, and the other half into the Star Wars version of Dune. All we ever wanted was just Star Wars. RO and even Star Wars Rebels give me more of what I expect from Star Wars prequels than the prequels themselves. And with every new episode of Rebels, I am more and more inclined to consider that Disney channel television series a far more legitimate prequel to Star Wars than PM, AOTC and ROTS.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Lucas had approved of the idea prior to the Disney buy-out. I wonder if he’d have directed it or hired someone else.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    jake24 wrote: »
    Loved them both.
    Yep, same here.
  • Sheesh.... I feel like it took half a year for people to start bashing Force Awakens. Now people are doing it to Rogue One already?

    The only fault I could find in RO was a slow beginning. When it was good, it was great.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    @DarthDimi, I agree with just about everything you said regarding the prequels. They did get their priorities all wrong by focusing on things that were irrelevant and created too many stupid coincidences along the way. I disagree with George's reasoning that we had to see Anakin as an innocent little boy to really feel the impact of his fall. That kid was just annoying and then they want us to believe that he built C-3PO?

    At the very least, we could have gotten the big Anakin vs Obi Wan duel at the end of Episode II (it would've made for a much better cliffhanger) and then focused on Vader in the suit for Episode III. We could have witnessed the Rebellion beginning to take shape while Vader went around hunting the remaining Jedi. I agree with you that, as it is now, the ending of Ep. III seems rushed.
  • Posts: 7,653
    What I like with the new two SW movies is how they managed to recapture the magic from the first three movies.

    Unlike the 007 franchise who went all out with CR and then for the next three movies managed to go bellybutton gazing with nothing added. They went all arty farty looking good and with little or no decent story or trying to mask it with poor action scenes.
  • Posts: 1,970
    IDK if this has been answered already but what are they gonna be doing with princess Leia in episode 9 with Carrie Fishers death? Was she suppose to be in episode 9?
  • I don't know what they have planned for 9 but she wrapped 8 and apparently has a much bigger part in it.
    It will be bittersweet seeing that one...

    I remember seeing Dark Knight the first time (in light of Heath's death) and there was a sad feeling whenever The Joker was on scene.
    Episode VIII will be even harder to watch. Not a dry eye in the audience I bet!

    Rogue One spoiler:
    It was a hell of a thing-- I saw Rogue One before Carrie's heart attack and thought it was awesome seeing her at the end- I went a second time, with family, after her passing and the same scene nearly brought a tear to my eye
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I have given that some thought too, @fjdinardo. I don't know about any plans for Ep. IX. A lot will no doubt depend on how her character finishes the story of Ep. VIII. They can always do what they did with Paul Walker in F&F7 and give her
    a nice CGI farewell.
    Since she's not entirely insensitive to the Force, perhaps she can be turned into a Force ghost, though I know that may be a stretch too far. The deaths of Obi-Wan and Yoda and Anakin hurt much less since we know that in the Star Wars universe, there is an afterlife. Maybe the daughter of Skywalker can be granted the same privilege? :)
  • :))

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2017 Posts: 17,789
    Some of Lucas' changes to 4, 5 & 6 before he sold it all to Disney- the Blu Rays:

    Star Wars-
    Giant lizards the stormtroopers were riding. Great! I liked it since the production paintings, and it was fun to finally see it.
    Extended Mos Eisley. Adds colour to the proceedings.
    Han & Greedo shoot simultaneously. I always hated the Greedo shooting first addition, but this last version I'm entirely okay with.
    Jabba scene. Absolutely unnecessary. Bathroom visit time.
    More Biggs. How can this be a bad thing?
    Empire-
    Wampa shots. YES!! Very cool!
    General background upgrades. Not bad.
    Return-
    Lapti Nek changed. Whatever, not a big fan of the original song anyway.
    Sarlacc upgrade. I like it.
    Ewok blinks. Awesome.
    Erasing Annakin's big black eyebrows. Heartily approved of.
    Force ghost of Annikin appearing as his younger self before the Darkside took him over.
    Forced (no pun intended) tie-in to prequels IMO. Unnecessary but not horrible.
    Changed/extended ending. Excellent. It had the scope the original ending missed.




  • Posts: 2,402
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Some of Lucas' changes to 4, 5 & 6 before he sold it all to Disney- the Blu Rays:

    Star Wars-
    Giant lizards the stormtroopers were riding. Great! I liked it since the production paintings, and it was fun to finally see it.
    Extended Mos Eisley. Adds colour to the proceedings.
    Han & Greedo shoot simultaneously. I always hated the Greedo shooting first addition, but this last version I'm entirely okay with.
    Jabba scene. Absolutely unnecessary. Bathroom visit time.
    More Biggs. How can this be a bad thing?
    Empire-
    Wampa shots. YES!! Very cool!
    General background upgrades. Not bad.
    Return-
    Lapti Neck changed. Whatever, not a big fan of the original song anyway.
    Sarlacc upgrade. I like it.
    Ewok blinks. Awesome.
    Erasing Annakin's big black eyebrows. Heartily approved of.
    Force ghost of Annikin appearing as his younger self before the Darkside took him over.
    Forced (no pun intended) tie-in to prequels IMO. Unnecessary but not horrible.
    Changed/extended ending. Excellent. It had the scope the original ending missed.




    What, and you adore the pile of crap it was replaced with?
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I don't like either scene, honestly. They're both unnecessary and poorly shot. One just has shittier CG than the other, but neither is good.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2017 Posts: 17,789

    What, and you adore the pile of crap it was replaced with?
    While I feel that Lapti Nek was better, I don't miss it greatly.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Lapti Nek was a better song though. I hate Jedi Rocks.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Just watched Rogue One last night - way better than The Farce Awakens.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Woody Harrelson cast in Han Solo movie in mentor role to Han apparently, really not keen on a Han Solo film I need to be convinced with this one.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2017/01/11/woody-harrelson-star-wars-young-han-solo-film/96443412/
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I would have been much more excited had they cast Anthony Ingruber as Han Solo. I may pass on the movie but I do need to be convinced with it as well.
  • Posts: 6,432
    Murdock wrote: »
    I would have been much more excited had they cast Anthony Ingruber as Han Solo. I may pass on the movie but I do need to be convinced with it as well.

    Ford is Han Solo one of most iconic Characters in film history, just does not feel right someone else playing the role.

    Just Googled Ingruber, whoa he is spitting image of Harrison Ford.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Murdock wrote: »
    I would have been much more excited had they cast Anthony Ingruber as Han Solo. I may pass on the movie but I do need to be convinced with it as well.

    Ford is Han Solo one of most iconic Characters in film history, just does not feel right someone else playing the role.

    Just Googled Ingruber, whoa he is spitting image of Harrison Ford.

    Oh no doubt but I can accept a recast if they work. Since it's a young Han Solo movie I don't mind. Ingruber would have been perfect. They guy the ended up casting looks nothing like Ford to me.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    A Han Solo origin story is just something I'm not interested in seeing. Harrison makes the character, and watching a younger actor take the reins to try and give a backstory to a relatively straight-forward character such as Han doesn't inspire much excitement on my end. I'm sure I'll give it a go at some point since it's still technically 'Star Wars' related, but I won't be lining up at the theater for it.
  • Posts: 6,432
    Think Disney will ultimately bleed Star Wars dry for all its worth, I would be more interested in new characters being developed long term with new stories.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    As long as the movies are good and enjoyable I don't mind but yeah I would like to see more untapped potential from the Star Wars universe. I'd love it if they made Shadows of the Empire a movie.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Well, Lucas was already doing that. Star Wars will be bled for centuries, until it comes from a long time ago and a galaxy far, far away.
  • Posts: 6,432
    Anyone know if Knights of the Old Republic is still cannon?
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    It's not, but the massive timeline space between that and Episode I means that whether or not it's canon is inconsequential. The hammerhead cruisers from KOTOR are canon, though.
  • Posts: 6,432
    Was not sure as there are conflicting opinions as to whether it's canon still, thousands of years difference could be too much of a leap for wider audiences to accept admittedly.
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