A View to a Kill Appreciation Thread- Anybody else want to drop out?

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  • edited February 2014 Posts: 38
    AVTAK is one of my favorite Bond films. I had it on VHS and watched it over and over again as a teenager. Moore's age never bothered me. The villains are great, theme song is catchy, and Moore brings his A-game. The story is also more than a rehashing of GF, by the way.

    While I think OP would have been more appropriate for summing up the Moore era, AVTAK is an excellent film and undeserving of its bad reputation.

    It's an incredibly entertaining and worthy Bond film, IMHO.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 38
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Please see my related thread on AVTAK and US audience reaction on MI6 Community here:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/7625/applause-at-the-silicon-valley-destruction-plot-in-a-view-to-a-kill-1985-in-cinema-theatres#Item_6

    It may be of interest to those reading and contributing to this thread.

    Despite what I write in the above thread, I am a big AVTAK fan and I would like to provide a link here to Dr Andrew McNess's book on AVTAK which I'm in the process of reading again and which is a brilliant accompaniment to the film:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/James-Bond-Our-Sights-Close/dp/1465382380/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377090801&sr=1-1

    I've started reading this book on your recommendation, @Dragonpol, and I am so glad I did. It is an excellent analysis of the film. Thank you for sharing it.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 2,341
    i never understood the "haight" that AVTAK gets from many Bond afficianadoes. I always liked this romp, Moore's swansong.

    Walken is a great villian (one of the best in the Moore era)

    Zorin's gallery of rogues from his"angles of death", Scarpine, Mortner, and of course May Day are all great fun and classic bad guys. (I recently learned that at 18 Allison Dody was the youngest Bond girl.)
    The fight atop the Golden Gate bridge is great. Well edited and full of suspense.

    My only problem with the film was Tanya Roberts, though great to look at she is one of the worst Bond girls
  • Posts: 1,817
    I don't think the worst of AVTAK is Stacy, though she's not by any change a great Bond girl, maybe just average. The problems I have with AVTAK are: (1) clumsy humor (thinking on the fire truck chase) and (2) the way they handle Bond's age, or just the oppositem that they didn't handle it at all.
    Going back with Tanya, even if I like her (specially in that white skirt), Pola Ivanova was more interesting and deserved more screen time, perhaps helping at the end.
  • Posts: 28
    I've always liked this film, it was one of the first Bond films my dad showed me.

    Sure Roger was way past his Bond sell by date but that never stopped my enjoyment of a fun 80's action movie. Christopher Walken was immense in this film, he is one of the craziest and creepiest Bond villains put to screen, his meniachal laugh and his blimp make him a good addition to the Bond series.

    I also love the Golden Gate Bridge sequence which I thought was electrifying.

    It's deffo a good Saturday Bond adventure :-)
  • Posts: 7,653
    The one issue I had with AVTAK was the demise of Patrick Macnee's character, I expected him to get his umbrella and bowler hat and stomp the sh&t out of those Frenchies, enter mr Steed.

    Just my love for the Avengers I think, and I do not mean that bunch of US superbabies. ;)
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    SaintMark wrote:
    The one issue I had with AVTAK was the demise of Patrick Macnee's character, I expected him to get his umbrella and bowler hat and stomp the sh&t out of those Frenchies, enter mr Steed.

    Just my love for the Avengers I think, and I do not mean that bunch of US superbabies. ;)

    Haha! You've gotta love Patrick Macnee!

    " stop wheezing, Tibbet!"
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    And funny you should bring this thread up again because I was just going to post this interesting article on AVTAK I found:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/08/view_to_a_kill/?page=3
  • Posts: 4,762
    I absolutely adore A View to a Kill- it is one of those Bond movies that has never decreased in splendor for me. Each time I watch it is a renewed pleasure. I don't understand how it receives the amount of criticism that it does; granted, Stacey Sutton is a fairly dim-witted Bond girl, and the action sequences are probably some of the worst in the series (with the exception of the grand finale in the mine and on the Golden Gate Bridge), but other than that, I can't find much fault in it. Roger's age doesn't even bother me as it does many fans. He still plays the role with expert talent! And, of course, does a case need to be made for Max Zorin? He's one of the top five Bond villains of all time, and there's really no disputing such a fact. Additionally, John Barry's soundtrack is quite epic, if you ask me. The track that plays during the PTS and again during the finale, and also in the fire truck chase, if I'm not mistaken, is one of the coolest tracks I've ever heard in a Bond movie.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,267
    SMERSHed wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Please see my related thread on AVTAK and US audience reaction on MI6 Community here:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/7625/applause-at-the-silicon-valley-destruction-plot-in-a-view-to-a-kill-1985-in-cinema-theatres#Item_6

    It may be of interest to those reading and contributing to this thread.

    Despite what I write in the above thread, I am a big AVTAK fan and I would like to provide a link here to Dr Andrew McNess's book on AVTAK which I'm in the process of reading again and which is a brilliant accompaniment to the film:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/James-Bond-Our-Sights-Close/dp/1465382380/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377090801&sr=1-1

    I've started reading this book on your recommendation, @Dragonpol, and I am so glad I did. It is an excellent analysis of the film. Thank you for sharing it.

    Glad to have been of service, sir. My friend Andrew runs an interesting blog here too:

    http://jamesbondinoursights.blogspot.co.uk/
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I have just found this article on the villains of A View to a Kill. Although the author constantly states that he dislikes the film (we get the idea already), and that there is some incorrect content in the article, it does produce some very interesting and thought provoking discussion on the characters of Zorin and Mayday. A very good read-

    http://them0vieblog.com/2012/10/05/a-view-to-a-bond-baddie-max-zorin/
  • Posts: 1,708
    The horse race fight is cool.
  • Posts: 1,596
    Maybe I'm reviving a dead thread but was just browsing some of the comments here. Thought I'd try to explain why I love A View to a Kill-

    #1: Roger Moore
    Sure he's old! So what? I've never minded a veteran Bond and I think he plays the role excellently here. John Glen is far from my favorite Bond director (Terence Young) but he was excellent at two things - a) he had a great eye for action b) he directed Roger Moore VERY well as Bond. Moore's better peformances, overall, came under Glen's direction. AVTAK is no different.

    His relationship with Stacey I personally see as a mentor/protector/fatherlike relationship. The end is just "obligatory" is te way I see it.

    #2: John Barry
    The score is fantastic. 'Nuff said.

    #3: Supporting cast
    This one boils completely down to personal preference. But I love the supporting cast in this movie. Christopher Walken as Max Zorin is my favorite villain in the franchise hands down. I finally realized that after my last viewing. He's simultaneously hilarious and completely sadistic and menacing. "Right on shhhedule"

    Grace Jones as May Day? I love it. Further adds to the insane weirdness (in a good way) that is AVTAK. Her and Walken are a great "tag team," probably the series' best. Then we've got Jenny Flex and other beautiful ladies about not to mention Patrick Macnee as Tibbitt. Everybody loves Tibbit.


    Lastly - it's not a perfect film. I rank it about in the middle of my rankings, maybe a bit down (like 13-14 ish). Some of the action isn't that great. I don't like Stacey Sutton. Etc.

    BUT, I think AVTAK is a genuinely good Bond film. The plot isn't original but it's a Bond film. It's executed nicely and the grand feel of it adds to the excitement. I love the weird factor. Old man Bond vs. Christopher Walken. He beds Grace Jones? It's just all so weird.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    This film is just overall great :-)

    I don't know but I always just loved the film and even though it has so many flaws it is probably still my favourite Bond film. There are probably 100 academic reasons why I shouldn't like it but for me Bond films should just entertain and this film is very entertaining.

    So why is it entertaining? Probably because it has

    a great viallain and henchan,
    great locations, beatiful buildings and impressive set pieces
    great score and theme song
    a simple but still interesting plot
    a good pacing (due to a very good direction)
    some good stunt work and funny action sequnces (horse race, parachute from the Eiffel tower, PTS)
    suspensefull moments (Burning elevator, car wash, Bond under water)
    a darker atmosphere compared to 70s Moore and less Gadgets and camp.
    Great alie with Tibbet
    very thoughtfull back stories (Zorin, Sutton)
    an epic climax atop the Golden Gate Bridge (probably the best in the entire series)
    Flemmingesque spy work (Bond and Tibbet under cover in their room and in the stables, Bond sneaking around in Zorin's office, Bond's diving scene.


    They could have however improved on a few things (as in all Bond films)

    the California Girls Song is weird and does not really fit and should have been removed.
    they could have put in a few retirement hints.
    they could indeed have casted another actress to play Stacey Sutton and reduced her screamtime (in the German version she does not scream as much and as loudly as in the original version)
    The firetruck chase is actually cool but they could have made it a little less silly.
    They could have made the kidnapping of Stacey with the blimp a little bit more realistic.
    They could have easily made the Bond hanging on a rope scene a bit more plausible (just make a few knots in that rope where he can put his feet on).





  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @GBF
    Nice you found this thread. Worth resurrecting.

    AVTAK features two things that I have high praise for.

    1. The theme song. A View To A Kill by Duran Duran is the epitome of a Bond song. I know Goldfinger is supposed to be that. For me both are.
    I think no other Bond song re-defined the Bond song like AVTAK.

    2. The PTS, the title sequence. Even if I may be in a minority, the title sequence of AVTAK belongs to my favourites, which means Top 3. The neon lights are so typically 80's and fitting. The blue/black skiing silouhettes are fantastic.
    The PTS is bloody great. I LIKE the Beach Boys scene.

    But there is more that I really like in AVTAK.
    Patrick Macnee: As an Avengers fans seeing Steed in a Bond movie was a marvelous experience. I still always look forward to his scenes.
    Grace Jones: Probably the weirdest Bond girl ever but somehow I liked her always. Slave To The Rhythm is a freaking musical masterpiece.
    The end-game on the Golden Gate Bridge. To be honest, I think that might just be the most iconic end-fight ever in a Bond movie.
    The Eiffel Tower sequence IS the most iconic Bond sequence ever.

    Last but not least: Tanya Roberts. Tell me I have bad taste, but Tanya was and still is my favourite Angel, even before Cheryl Ladd.
    In AVTAK she is great, I don't get the ridicule she has to endure from critics.

    I never cared much for Christopher Walken's portrayal of Zorin. He ranks somewhere in the middle field of the hall of fame of villains.

    What, sadly, kills AVTAK for me (ranking wise) is Roger Moore's visible age. It is omnipresent throughout the movie. Sometimes you wonder who is the oldest in AVTAK. Q, Moneypenny, M, Macnee or Bond.

    In my last Bondathon I found AVTAK to be an easy watch nonetheless. If there was not a movie called Moonraker, AVTAK just might be my guilty pleasure Bond.

    But I promise, I will give AVTAK another chance to move up in my ranking once I've re-watched it.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I too really love the PTS of AVTAK, the snowboarding is amazing. :)
  • AVTAK is not quite as bad as people make it out to be. I am not saying it is in the upper echelons of Bond films. It is not even middle-tier Bond. I suppose even calling it a good movie is difficult, but even the absolute worst Bond films are far better than the copious amounts of action drivel out there.

    Yes there are issues in AVTAK. And some of them are quite damning. Roger Moore's age. We know he was too old there, and it is even worse when he is bedding one, two, three, four women who look like his granddaughter. Beach Boys scored to snowboarding, ruining an otherwise good stunt in a similar way to the slide whistle that marred the car barrel roll in TMWTGG. Screaming Stacey Sutton. And let's be quite honest, no one can quite tell what tone John Glen was trying to create with this film. Is it fun (fire truck chase) or dark (grim mine massacre). One is quite sure that with this film there was a general lack in creativity.

    But there are parts in AVTAK that put it above the bottom films. That Golden Gate bridge fight is epic (though Zorin's death is an anticlimax). The elevator deathtrap and in general the entire City Hall shtick is great. And the fire truck chase is great for what it is. Against public opinion I think that Paris car chase is quite brutal and engaging. Combine this with a good villain in Zorin - the skyship sequence is classic - and a good ally (though he is perfunctory). You have a decent Bond adventure. One that is fun to watch most of the time.

    There are multiple dips in quality in AVTAK, but when it is at its best, it shines. It is sixth-last on my list, which puts it above Moore's two other clunkers, TMWTGG and MR.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    AVTAK is one of the lower ranking Bonds, but as I've explained before I don't think it makes sense to put it last. There are other Bond films which are even more removed from the concept of Bond in cinema.
  • The superb score and Walken saves AVTAK. For me, it's above at least 3 of Moore's 7. Just wish it had been Dalton's first, or at least acknowledged Moore's age and make his relationship with Stacey paternal rather than the horrible end scene.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    @GBF
    Nice you found this thread. Worth resurrecting.

    AVTAK features two things that I have high praise for.

    1. The theme song. A View To A Kill by Duran Duran is the epitome of a Bond song. I know Goldfinger is supposed to be that. For me both are.
    I think no other Bond song re-defined the Bond song like AVTAK.

    2. The PTS, the title sequence. Even if I may be in a minority, the title sequence of AVTAK belongs to my favourites, which means Top 3. The neon lights are so typically 80's and fitting. The blue/black skiing silouhettes are fantastic.
    The PTS is bloody great. I LIKE the Beach Boys scene.

    But there is more that I really like in AVTAK.
    Patrick Macnee: As an Avengers fans seeing Steed in a Bond movie was a marvelous experience. I still always look forward to his scenes.
    Grace Jones: Probably the weirdest Bond girl ever but somehow I liked her always. Slave To The Rhythm is a freaking musical masterpiece.
    The end-game on the Golden Gate Bridge. To be honest, I think that might just be the most iconic end-fight ever in a Bond movie.
    The Eiffel Tower sequence IS the most iconic Bond sequence ever.

    Last but not least: Tanya Roberts. Tell me I have bad taste, but Tanya was and still is my favourite Angel, even before Cheryl Ladd.
    In AVTAK she is great, I don't get the ridicule she has to endure from critics.

    I never cared much for Christopher Walken's portrayal of Zorin. He ranks somewhere in the middle field of the hall of fame of villains.

    What, sadly, kills AVTAK for me (ranking wise) is Roger Moore's visible age. It is omnipresent throughout the movie. Sometimes you wonder who is the oldest in AVTAK. Q, Moneypenny, M, Macnee or Bond.

    In my last Bondathon I found AVTAK to be an easy watch nonetheless. If there was not a movie called Moonraker, AVTAK just might be my guilty pleasure Bond.

    But I promise, I will give AVTAK another chance to move up in my ranking once I've re-watched it.

    Thanks for mentioning some positive aspects on it. I also think that Roger's age really is the main aspect why people don't like it and to some degree I can understand that. As I posted above, I think they should have put in some retirement elements. Unlike in Skyfall (Craig had just become Bond, so why should he already retire?), it would have really worked in AVTAK.
    However, I still wonder why so many people say they just dislike this film, mainly due to Roger's age but find him perfect in Octopussy. For me he has been too old already in FYEO for being a convincing special agent. But this has never been Roger's Bond character. His work actually had only partly to do with real spy work. And by the way, every Bond looks unconvincing in the action and love sequences, even if he is 10 or 15 years younger. I mean it's hardly believable that one man is almost better in everything compared to other men (skiing, fencing, horse riding, swimming, diving,..., flying a plane, a helicopter, shooting, boxing, chasing,...., card games,.... So one should not take that all to seriously.

    Yes, you could have done more with Roger's age but the age itself never bothered me that much since as I said, especially Roger's Bond films have never been so extremely serious.

    If you do not always try to see the serious special agent in him but the globe-trotting action grandfather, it is a lot more fun :-)

    Good to hear that you will give it another try!!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,169
    While I'm not the biggest AVTAK fan to say the least, I will stand up for Tanya Roberts as Stacey Sutton. In my opinion she's not nearly as bad as she's made out to be. She screams a lot, yes, no doubt because she's instructed to, and she has a bit of a raspy voice which doesn't make her screaming more enjoyable. But that is hardly a problem in a film with a lot more things to worry about. I don't think Stacey is the worst character of the film either. I more or less believe her story and I think they gave her a good enough motive to join forces with Bond. That's she's 28 years younger than Moore isn't too big a deal IMO. I mean, she turned 30 in 1985; it's not like she was a child or anything. Also, though this is personal preference and nothing else, I think this woman was outrageously gorgeous when shooting AVTAK.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    I quite agree with you @DarthDimi. Tanya was absolutely gorgeous. I felt her backstory was pretty good, and while not the best actress in the Bondian canon, she's not the worst.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    While I'm not the biggest AVTAK fan to say the least, I will stand up for Tanya Roberts as Stacey Sutton. In my opinion she's not nearly as bad as she's made out to be. She screams a lot, yes, no doubt because she's instructed to, and she has a bit of a raspy voice which doesn't make her screaming more enjoyable. But that is hardly a problem in a film with a lot more things to worry about. I don't think Stacey is the worst character of the film either. I more or less believe her story and I think they gave her a good enough motive to join forces with Bond. That's she's 28 years younger than Moore isn't too big a deal IMO. I mean, she turned 30 in 1985; it's not like she was a child or anything. Also, though this is personal preference and nothing else, I think this woman was outrageously gorgeous when shooting AVTAK.

    I also find the overall criticism on her a little surprising. I mean at least she has a backstory and she really does something in the film. Stacey also does not directly fall for Bond but is somewhat independant. Despie what many people say she is not just the damsel but helps Bond in some situations.
    We should also not forget that it is a Bond film and that Bond girls have often been mainly casted just for the looks. Hence one could also criticise other Bond girls very easily but people tend to look past that. Just think of Honey Rider. She is widely regarded to be among the best or even the best Bond girl. But she does not do anything important in Dr. No except for comming out of the water and looking hot. It is also very simple to point at the naivety of Domino or Tatiana.
    In fact, very few Bond girls have had great back stories, were important for the plot and had been performed by experienced actressed prior to the Craig era.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I have got to admit, AVTAK has never stood out to me as being top tier, but I can never understand why It features at the bottom of peoples lists. It's a solid entry from one of the best Bond directors. Sadly there is a huge amount of ageist sentiment towards this film. That's really sickening. It's the equivilant of saying "well, I didn't really like Live And Let Die because there was too many black people in it."
  • Stacey Sutton is not at all the worst Bond girl. Not even the worst of the Moore era. Goodhead and Goodnight are ironically not so good.
  • Posts: 128
    Sadly there is a huge amount of ageist sentiment towards this film. That's really sickening. It's the equivilant of saying "well, I didn't really like Live And Let Die because there was too many black people in it."

    Apples and oranges. It's not ageist to feel that an out of shape 60 year old shouldn't be playing an action hero who's supposed to be ageless. Moore was too old to be playing Bond by that point, period. He should have sailed off into the sunset in "Octopussy."
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    coco1997 wrote: »
    Sadly there is a huge amount of ageist sentiment towards this film. That's really sickening. It's the equivilant of saying "well, I didn't really like Live And Let Die because there was too many black people in it."

    Apples and oranges. It's not ageist to feel that an out of shape 60 year old shouldn't be playing an action hero who's supposed to be ageless. Moore was too old to be playing Bond by that point, period. He should have sailed off into the sunset in "Octopussy."

    What exactly do you take 'ageist' to mean, if not to discriminate based on age?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Well, we are getting hilarious now, a bit.

    Ageist, really...

    It can't be reasoned away that Moore looked way too old in AVTAK. I actually don't care how old he was then. Physically he did well as usual. It is his looks that hurt the movie.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited March 2016 Posts: 16,351
    If Moore didn't get that facelift, I think he would have been fine. Here he is from Octopussy and he looks great.
    James%20Bond%20(ROGER%20MOORE)%20arrives%20at%20the%20casino.jpg

    But that facelift really changed his face.
    A%2BView%2Bto%2Ba%2BKill.jpg

    I don't think A View To A Kill is bad, I enjoy it a lot John Barry's score is his best and so action packed. Zorin's a little quirky and hammy at times but Walkin is great in everything and adds to the appeal of the character. Tanya Robert's isn't too bad either. I need to see it again soon. If Roger didn't get that facelift it would be much higher for me.
  • Posts: 4,044
    Well, we are getting hilarious now, a bit.

    Ageist, really...

    It can't be reasoned away that Moore looked way too old in AVTAK. I actually don't care how old he was then. Physically he did well as usual. It is his looks that hurt the movie.

    I always thought he looked a bit younger with the facelift, and a bit trimmer in AVTAK compared with OP. However he seems to do a lot less of the action with stuntmen being drafted in even to do his running. Plus the stunt doubles just look less likely to be him this time around.

    Anyway age shouldn't be a barrier, just look at Harrison Ford, Sly Stallone, Liam Neeson and Kevin Costner doing action movies in their 50s-70s.
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