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Dear Christ. I love Wesley in Demolition Man and White Men Cant Jump (hmm not sure how that title wouldve been allowed if it had been other way round) but Bond. Seriously?
Well said sir. Its not a race thing its the riding roughshod over who Bond is. And in terms of someone like Bond who is part of the establishment and old boy network then race is a defining characteristic. The same way sex would be. I am just as equally against a female Bond but for some (fairly obvious) reason this debate hardly ever arises, and when it does it is certainly lacks the same vehement polarisation of opinion.
Theres been many a black Hamlet and I'm sure white Othellos over the years but generally when they do this its just as a gimmick and so they can set it in South Central LA or the future or some bollocks like that. I can see why they do it as everyone knows the story and its just a way of freshening it up and I think the way things are today that we will probably end up with a black Bond one day.
However as someone who is already uncomfortable with the revisionist bullshit that came out for CR about Bond being born in 67 and being in the SAS etc, it would be jumping the shark to say the least if they rebooted it again to say he was born in Brixton in 1979 and attended a comprehensive before fighting in Helmand province.
I would switch off at this point as the character on screen would bear no relation to Ian Flemings intentions whatsoever.
Whenever debates like this occur I am always moved to remember the words of wisdom uttered by that fountain of knowledge known as Alan Partidge:
'STOP GETTING BOND WRONG!'
Tradition is not everything. If it were, we'd still be in caves painting on walls and making square wheels. Some traditions last, others do not. If Bond were black, it would be a change I'd have no problem with. It's not like that one black movie would erase the 23 white movies we've already got.
And, listen to the people talking about mixing historical people and fictional people, stop putting the two together like they're one in the same. Yes, some of us care about Bond enough that to us, he is real (not me, though), but the simple fact is that he's not.
So, you're not a fan of trying new things?
I think there's a limit to trying new things. The elements @SaintMark describes fall in a category I agree should never be explored by the Bond films. I don't want the Bonds becoming rape/revenge films or cannibal shockexploitation. Does that mean I'm not a fan of trying new things? Let's say it means I'm a Bond fan.
When I order a steak, I will decide right there and then how it needs to be done, I might consider trying a different sauce with it, possibly different seasoning and I might even have it with bread instead of fries. But I still want my steak. Casting a female Bond, a non-British Bond, a black Bond, ... is like ordering a steak and getting a candy bar instead.
Amen Mark, finally a post I enjoy in here.
I find it absolutely amazing that most of the people in here supporting the idea of a black - bond at some point were totally against the idea of a R-RATED bond film at some time. So some of you can't tell us we cant accept change.
As long as Barbara Brocolli is alive, we will not be seeing a dark skinned bond, her father Cubby was very keen on the fact of keeping Bond a white British Male and I find it hard to believe she thinks any different.
Plus the franchise would suffer more than it could gain in this situation. Theres plenty of other ideas out there for black espionage movies, Bond is set in stone as white, its just the way it is.
Tradition is Everything when it comes to the 007 franchise, the tradition of M, moneypenny, bonds random adventure , the casino scenes, martini ordering , Bonds famous sexy black tuxedo, his walther ppk, THE FACT HE HAS BEEN WHITE FOR 23 FILMS. These are the reasons the franchise has lasted, its managed to keep a winning formula with only changing or tweaking it to a better standard.
Could you imagine the outrage of the black community if a new shaft came out starring a white guy !!?? it would be considered a racist out of this world act of hate. ohhhh but its okay to make the legendary 23 bond film franchise a black guy just to change things up...
please get outa here, if bond ever becomes black im done with the series for good.
Mod edit: Even more so than not being considered good practice, it is also in violation of our forum policy. Please refrain from using strong language.
I completely agree though, terribly awful idea.
It seems that Bond fans fall into two camps: one which gives Bond license to adapt to the times (a female M, love interests who are Bond's equal, a Moneypenny who gives Bond a run for his money, even a black Bond) and one which wants more or less a '50s period piece (a male M, love interests who are subservient, a spinsterish Moneypenny, etc.).
You seemed to enjoy every post that was for the idea of the last Bond.
And I'd be against Shaft being played by anyone other than Richard Roundtree, black or white.
In all honesty, I don't see it happening. Would I mind? Not necessarily. Do I see it happening? No.
I agree. A female Bond wouldn't really work. To me the two defining characteristics of Bond are that he is British and that he is irresistible to women. Race doesn't enter into it for me.
I've seen a lot of anti-gay, anti-black sentiment on here recently masked by the frankly indefensible argument that 'I know someone who's black/gay so what I'm saying is validated'. It's not.
Believe it or not while I'm not fussed about whether Bond is white or black I would genuinely prefer he remained white, for the very selfish reason that Bond has always been my role model and I'd feel understandably distanced if he was no longer a white british man.
However, I'm not a fan of this right-wing school of thought that states clearly Bond should NEVER be anything but white. Using the 'PC Brigade' to justify your self-righteousness is pointless. There's no such thing as the 'PC Brigade' it's a media fabrication to counter-balance Jeremy Clarkson loving pillocks. Most rational people can see that sometimes an argument is never black and white (no pun intended) but rather different shades of grey...
I also think referencing Rosa Parks, Malcolm X etc was a bad idea. That argument can't ever stand up.
I respect your right to an opinion but all I'll say is this, don't be afraid if your heart and your head are conflicted. You seem to display all of the traits of someone who's unwilling to admit that they're possibly wrong, someone who likes the idea of a right-wing utopia where your opinion is the only one that counts, and why? Because it just does.
If you allow yourself to actually consider different opinions you may just find you learn something. I'm not saying you have to agree but it may open your eyes if you are willing to see things in a different light.
I find the best comments on this forum are those from people with a genuine outlook. Not a borrowed set of values. Even if I don't agree with what they say, at least it makes me consider their point of view. You don't make me consider your arguments because they seem uneducated and irrational.
I don't have a problem with you. Hopefully this explains my POV.
However, it never really does anything other than antagonise people.
Frankly, I think the point is moot (or moo, if you're Joey from Friends). I mean, they're never going to do it, are they? And if they did, so what? Some of us would shrug our shoulders, some of us would protest angrily and perhaps even distance themselves from the franchise. But in the end there is nothing we can do about it. Nothing.
So, all this arguing really serves to do is to highlight certain individual posters' borderline racism and other posters' liberalism.
Perhaps we should spend more time appreciating what we have, rather than spend time arguing about what we don't.
For me this is not about race or some teababblenazi BS a few radicals chant like it's become a religion (which it probably has with these guys). Black skin is just something even a genius actor can't act around. You can get taller with lifts and good cinematography, you can bulk up or lose chubbiness, act like a ladykiller and so on. But black skin is like the face, the first split sec decides how everybody is going to see you. And believe me I know a lot of cool cats. The white ones and the black ones are two different things. I wouldn't freak out or something if there ever was a black actor cast. It just won't happen any time soon I think.
Im not sure some of you understand the consequences this would have on the franchise, in my opinion it would destroy any sense of credibility and tradition the franchise carries.
Why can't a new franchise be made for a black spy , seriously james bond is not the only option for a black guy, theres many other ideas out there.
Eon was smart to leave behind some traditions of Fleming.
A black actor as Bond is almost as bad as saying Roger Moore is a better actor/Bond than Daniel Craig!
Not sure how it would destroy the credibility of the franchise, the role has been played by different looking actors before. Look at Craig. Blonde Bond. Casino Royale was one of the franchise's biggest successes and no credibility was lost.
You say Craig is your favourite interpretation of Bond, and you want to maintain all the established traditions of the Bond franchise. But Craig's Bond has broken more traditions than any Bond before him.
Your comments are probably the only sensible ones I have seen on this thread.
I hate to see comments from people who are probably fairly young and wonder why the hate. In my day the old farts were the racists. Young people were open and forward thinking. Remember the youth changed the world...
Face it Fleming was himself a racist. He grew up at a time when racism was very rampant in the UK as well as the USA. His books tend to be racist and very xenophoebic. He was all for England and if one reads the books the villians are never English. they are Germans, Asians, blacks, Russians, Irish, etc.
The world has changed for the most part and except for a few narrow minded young fans on this board, the world will continue to evolve and change and hopefully for the betterment of us all.
Bond's color would make no difference to me.
I agree wholeheartedly with OHMSS69, Volante, and Creasy47. The world has changed for the better, especially with regard to race. I have never been prouder of the US than when we elected an African-American as President, no small feat given our very troublesome history with race.
Fleming was indeed a racist. He was a product of his time and his class, but he was also someone who spent considerable time in Jamaica, and it's disappointing to me that he wasn't more open-minded. On the other hand, he gave us a thrilling creation in Bond, a character who has stood the test of time.
Fleming's brilliance doesn't excuse his ignorance, nor does his ignorance erase his brilliance.