It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
The point here, RC7, is that Skyfall is more the movie Bond than literary Bond and your mom may actually like him in it. Yes, Casino Royale was Flemingesque and a well made and thrillingly executed story. Skyfall is not. She should give it a shot. She might be pleasantly surprised.
(I'm not touching the Legs Lazenby topic.)
There are things I do like about every official film, even those in my bottom five, but DAD remains the very worst of them. I'm not going to write a big dissertation here filling the maximum post length with all that ails this film, the bottom line for me is that I hardly enjoy nothing about the film and think it's very un-Bondian in many aspects as well as an extremely poor nod to the past that SF rectifies and does the right way. It deserves the lambasting it gets and those who defend it have no viable case for it's defense past that they like it, which of course they can. What I do like is Miranda Frost, the Cuban scenes sans Jinx, the sword fight because I love the old Power/Flynn swashbucklers, and the Peaceful Fountains scene that nods to FRWL. Hokey surfing scenes with too much CGI, cornball lines like "saved by the bell" courtesy of the brilliant (ahem) P&W, the worst theme in Bond history, fake heart attacks, Caveman Bond in wet pajamas, and that's just the first 15-20 minutes. The first hour is marginally better than the second. Enough said.
OHMSS doesn't deserve that and got that for years because of Lazenby. People do the same with films from other Bond actors because they don't like their era. They rate the films higher for the actors they like, and great films like CR, OHMSS, LTK, and SF get crapped on. If you want to buck the norm as far as a general consensus for a film that everyone loves or hates, expect that someone will object.
I would disagree with you that SF is more the cinematic Bond of old, it has elements, that's it. Like I said, she'd enjoy the film, but she doesn't like Craig as Bond. She doesn't mind him as an actor, he just isn't Bond to her and that's not going to change.
I'll add a footnote to that by saying there are 2 or 3 other Bond films which I dislike as much as DAD but the difference is that no other film fills me with such hatred. I get so angry when I watch it. Hell, I'm angry just thinking about it now whilst I type this. It literally pisses over it's 40 year history and is an absolute travesty to film making not to mention an insult to the memory of Ian Fleming and to us, the fans.
Well I don't hate DAD very much overall any more, but I won't defend it too much either. It's in my guilty pleasure pile along with Batman & Robin, Elektra and Into The Blue. ;)
I do apologise. You really deserve credit for having TND and TWINE in the top 10.
I really wouldnt have a problem (well apart from not agreeing with you in the slightest) if you said 'I dont like the boring Fleming Bond I just like the gadgets and the gags of the cinematic Bond' but you make out you are some sort of Fleming die hard with indignant comments about being breast fed on Fleming but then you go and have 3 Brosnans in the top 10 with FRWL down in 8th, DAD somehow ending up in midtable and OHMSS dropping off a cliff, not only rock bottom but with a large gap indicating it as so bad as not even to be considered.
Just be honest and say so if you do not like straight Fleming adaptations rather than getting the hump. FRWL, OHMSS and CR are closer to Fleming than GE, TSWLM and TWINE - thats simply inarguable so why are you even arguing about it?
Its really all about OHMSS.
I can understand how some people might not have DAD rock bottom as they might hate Bond going into space and Jaws falling in love or think TMWTGG with its elephants, kung fu schoolgirls and slide whistles is even more risible so I'm not going to slaughter you for that. Yes 15th is waaaaaay too high and would be pretty laughable if done in isolation but to have OHMSS last really is beyond all sense and reason.
The only explanation you have offered forth so far for justifying the position of OHMSS is that 'Lazenby is a chimp'. Well OK. Fair enough. For the sake of argument lets say Bond is played by the PG Tips chimp in OHMSS. It is still a million times better than DAD.
Lazenby isnt the greatest actor in history thats for sure but hey - sorry to break it to you so bluntly - but neither is Brozza. Personally I prefer Lazenby's performance to Brozza's in DAD but I guess thats just taste and I have no problem if you think Brozza is better. I do think Brozza does the best he can in DAD given the shocking material he has to work with so because I'm a generous sort of guy I'll give you that Brozza is better than Laz.
So you lead 1-0.
Now all you need to do is tell me one single other aspect in which DAD is better than OHMSS?
I'm not even going to ask for two. Just one. Give me just one and I'll cave in and say you are correct.
Faithfulness to Fleming (because I know what a fan you are of Ian's work), acting, direction, script, plot, music, action, sets - you can choose from any of these aspects or any more you can think of yourself.
You just need to find one.
Just one.
It really fills me with sadness that you are unable to see how ridiculous you are being and its actually an insult to the late Peter Hunt and that you can even entertain the idea of ranking Tamahori's 'opus' above Peter's masterpiece.
It's called personal preference. GoldenEye, Licence To Kill and Skyfall are my top three Bond movies, yet Die Another Day is in my top 15. I get some enjoyment out of it. Just because someone likes Die Another Day over OHMSS doesn't mean he's not a fan. He has personal preference. So please don't say Well if you like DAD over this then you're not a Bond fan. Back in 2002 I used to think DAD was the best Bond film at the time. Granted I was 11. But as I've grown my opinions on it have change considerably. Were all Bond fans here. Don't let your preferences overrun someone else's. rant over.
I have to save this for posterity and blackmail before you change your mind :))
You misunderstand me (or perhaps I didn't express it as clearly as I could have). I'm not admitting Brozza is a better actor than Laz (well at least not at playing Bond) its just I felt so sorry for Shoreline that I decided to give him a chance to explain his logic by conceding the only point he has raised as to why he hates OHMSS.
You should know I would never stoop to slagging the legend - although I can understand why people rate him bottom.
What I can't understand is how OHMSS is worse than DAD. Sorry to bang on about it but I'm just simply at a loss to explain it - like why people watch Mrs Brown's Boys or in this day and age still believe in God.
Most Bond movies fit that description, I'm afraid. :-?
Yes, that's true. Mostly though in the two "playboy" eras ;)
When most new fans watch a Bond Movie for the first time, they don't know or care about "Fleming's Bond" It doesn't matter if the film is good or bad, If it entertains the viewer then they can like what they want. For example, I like Moonraker over Goldfinger, yet I still have Licence to Kill in my Top 3. Does that mean I'm not a Bond fan? Gee Wiz guys I guess I have to leave now. Don't push your opinion's over someone else's. Learn to accept someone else's personal preference. Not everyone share's the same opinions as you. You think Brosnan's the worst Bond where I think he's the Best. I grew up with the Brosnan films and I still love them to this day.
;-)
Neil Buchanan!!
Priceless Willy old son. If I could bring myself to type 'LOL' I most certainly would.
This is exactly the point.
Preferring DAD over OHMSS does mean you are not a James Bond fan, merely a fan of films featuring a guy named James Bond.
:-))
The only Flemingesque part of DAD is this.
M: You had your cyanide.
Bond: Threw it away years ago, what the hell is this all about?
In FRWL (The Novel) I believe he mentioned something about throwing away his Cyanide capsule.
Liking DAD over OHMSS has nothing to do with Respecting Fleming. It's a goddamn movie.
Moore's all suck from the goofy.
Brosnans are pastiche garbage.
Lazenby's was crap due to an unseasoned actor.
Dalton's was... well, you can't fault his. :))
But, see what I'm saying? As bad as DAD ultimately was, I'll watch it probably six more times before I die, which is six times more than I'll watch NSNA, or CR '67.
Interesting point but I personally find B&R to be completely unwatchable. I don't like DAD but it's not anywhere close to the worst movie I've ever seen. Opinions will differ of course. Also, you could make the argument that prior Bond films already tarnished that reputation.
:))
While I am not quite ready to join Wizard and Sir Henry's nazi logic of having to think the fact that their opinions and views are true and the way, I do find it funny!
You know, you have to accept some people will like different things to you, and Wizard, you really are a little bit too angry and self righteous for me to take!
I'm not trying to out Fleming you, and you must understand, if I want Fleming, I re read the books again. I don't need it in all my Bond films for me to enjoy them.
I happen to feel that only the fist four films got anywhere close, and certainly not the Craig era which I see is a popular opinion also... Not that stops me from enjoying them !!
A lead actor is a critical element in any film, and Lazenby is so very un engaging to watch.
Also, I find the fin drags on way to long.
The story itself is just as fantastical as DAD or many other Bonds, this in itself doesn't bother me.
Nor did ridiculous things like jet packs and mini underwater breathers in Thunderball stop me loving it as a great movie.
OHMSS is a good Fleming story, great great music, but just doesn't float my boat ultimately.
DAD does have some horrific moments, cgi and theme song are awful but it's a fun romp. Amazing fencing scene, and the lead actor is engaging, and carries of well.
Please, you can't right people's opinions off just because they are not yours.
And how is a movie like OHMSS with the most "fantastical" element being a relatively simple enough brainwashing plot involving biological warfare even compete with a diamond driven space laser, genetically altered humans, or invisible cars in the same sense? Or is this just another Nazi opinion too?
It's in response to you clearly struggling to accept the fact that someone likes DAD more than OHMSS.
I never said one was better than the other, my rankings are the preference of my enjoyment of them.
I don't even hate OHMSS.
Get over it.