Bond movie ranking (Simple list, no details)

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  • retrokittyretrokitty The Couv
    Posts: 380
    RC7 wrote:
    @RC7- I wonder what Mom thinks about SF then, since it's obviously (at least to most) more of an identifiable work of cinematic Bond.

    She hasn't seen it. She's not too fussed about the Craig era, she doesn't think he's Bond. She's a very intelligent woman but I don't think she has the time or inclination to fawn over the Flemingesque nuances. Like I said, she appreciated CR for being a well made, thrillingly executed story. I'm sure she'd feel the same about SF, bar Silva's inane plan ;)

    The point here, RC7, is that Skyfall is more the movie Bond than literary Bond and your mom may actually like him in it. Yes, Casino Royale was Flemingesque and a well made and thrillingly executed story. Skyfall is not. She should give it a shot. She might be pleasantly surprised.


    (I'm not touching the Legs Lazenby topic.)

  • edited September 2013 Posts: 3,494
    pachazo wrote:
    Shoreline wrote:
    I'm genuinely interested, is it the fact that I have DAD mid ranked, or the fact that I have OHMSS last that upsets people here??
    Definitely OHMSS for me. I can live with you finding enjoyment from DAD but to have OHMSS ranked last is just insane.

    There are things I do like about every official film, even those in my bottom five, but DAD remains the very worst of them. I'm not going to write a big dissertation here filling the maximum post length with all that ails this film, the bottom line for me is that I hardly enjoy nothing about the film and think it's very un-Bondian in many aspects as well as an extremely poor nod to the past that SF rectifies and does the right way. It deserves the lambasting it gets and those who defend it have no viable case for it's defense past that they like it, which of course they can. What I do like is Miranda Frost, the Cuban scenes sans Jinx, the sword fight because I love the old Power/Flynn swashbucklers, and the Peaceful Fountains scene that nods to FRWL. Hokey surfing scenes with too much CGI, cornball lines like "saved by the bell" courtesy of the brilliant (ahem) P&W, the worst theme in Bond history, fake heart attacks, Caveman Bond in wet pajamas, and that's just the first 15-20 minutes. The first hour is marginally better than the second. Enough said.

    OHMSS doesn't deserve that and got that for years because of Lazenby. People do the same with films from other Bond actors because they don't like their era. They rate the films higher for the actors they like, and great films like CR, OHMSS, LTK, and SF get crapped on. If you want to buck the norm as far as a general consensus for a film that everyone loves or hates, expect that someone will object.



  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    retrokitty wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    @RC7- I wonder what Mom thinks about SF then, since it's obviously (at least to most) more of an identifiable work of cinematic Bond.

    She hasn't seen it. She's not too fussed about the Craig era, she doesn't think he's Bond. She's a very intelligent woman but I don't think she has the time or inclination to fawn over the Flemingesque nuances. Like I said, she appreciated CR for being a well made, thrillingly executed story. I'm sure she'd feel the same about SF, bar Silva's inane plan ;)

    The point here, RC7, is that Skyfall is more the movie Bond than literary Bond and your mom may actually like him in it. Yes, Casino Royale was Flemingesque and a well made and thrillingly executed story. Skyfall is not. She should give it a shot. She might be pleasantly surprised.


    (I'm not touching the Legs Lazenby topic.)

    I would disagree with you that SF is more the cinematic Bond of old, it has elements, that's it. Like I said, she'd enjoy the film, but she doesn't like Craig as Bond. She doesn't mind him as an actor, he just isn't Bond to her and that's not going to change.
  • pachazo wrote:
    Shoreline wrote:
    I'm genuinely interested, is it the fact that I have DAD mid ranked, or the fact that I have OHMSS last that upsets people here??
    Definitely OHMSS for me. I can live with you finding enjoyment from DAD but to have OHMSS ranked last is just insane.

    There are things I do like about every official film, even those in my bottom five, but DAD remains the very worst of them. I'm not going to write a big dissertation here filling the maximum post length with all that ails this film, the bottom line for me is that I hardly enjoy nothing about the film and think it's very un-Bondian in many aspects as well as an extremely poor nod to the past that SF rectifies and does the right way. It deserves the lambasting it gets and those who defend it have no viable case for it's defense past that they like it, which of course they can. What I do like is Miranda Frost, the Cuban scenes sans Jinx, the sword fight because I love the old Power/Flynn swashbucklers, and the Peaceful Fountains scene that nods to FRWL. Hokey surfing scenes with too much CGI, cornball lines like "saved by the bell" courtesy of the brilliant (ahem) P&W, the worst theme in Bond history, fake heart attacks, Caveman Bond in wet pajamas, and that's just the first 15-20 minutes. The first hour is marginally better than the second. Enough said.

    OHMSS doesn't deserve that and got that for years because of Lazenby. People do the same with films from other Bond actors because they don't like their era. They rate the films higher for the actors they like, and great films like CR, OHMSS, LTK, and SF get crapped on. If you want to buck the norm as far as a general consensus for a film that everyone loves or hates, expect that someone will object.

    I'll add a footnote to that by saying there are 2 or 3 other Bond films which I dislike as much as DAD but the difference is that no other film fills me with such hatred. I get so angry when I watch it. Hell, I'm angry just thinking about it now whilst I type this. It literally pisses over it's 40 year history and is an absolute travesty to film making not to mention an insult to the memory of Ian Fleming and to us, the fans.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited September 2013 Posts: 17,789
    Wow, everyone here hates DAD precisely as much as I hated MR back in '79! :))

    Well I don't hate DAD very much overall any more, but I won't defend it too much either. It's in my guilty pleasure pile along with Batman & Robin, Elektra and Into The Blue. ;)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Shoreline wrote:
    Difficult to disagree with @TheWiz here. DAD is just an absolute gobshite of a film from the moment that CGI bullet is fired in the gunbarrell right up to the end credits. There are very few (if any) redeeming features in this film.

    Also need to mention Bond being released by his North Korean captors where he's been tortured for 14 months only to wind up in a 5 star Hong Kong hotel less than 10 minutes later looking like a man who's been dolled up as though he's about to do a photo shoot for GQ Magazine!

    Can you believe there are actually some people (mentalists) who think this is a better Bond film than Casino Royale. It beggers belief. Really need to take a long hard look at yourselves. If EON ever bastardize Fleming in this way again, there could be a revolution!

    And OHMSS Mr Shoreline!!!

    You sure do like to dwell on the negative, don't you?
    Instead, you could have picked up on some of the other films in my top ten that you would approve of....?
    I suppose you just enjoy running some people down too much eh?

    I do apologise. You really deserve credit for having TND and TWINE in the top 10.

    I really wouldnt have a problem (well apart from not agreeing with you in the slightest) if you said 'I dont like the boring Fleming Bond I just like the gadgets and the gags of the cinematic Bond' but you make out you are some sort of Fleming die hard with indignant comments about being breast fed on Fleming but then you go and have 3 Brosnans in the top 10 with FRWL down in 8th, DAD somehow ending up in midtable and OHMSS dropping off a cliff, not only rock bottom but with a large gap indicating it as so bad as not even to be considered.

    Just be honest and say so if you do not like straight Fleming adaptations rather than getting the hump. FRWL, OHMSS and CR are closer to Fleming than GE, TSWLM and TWINE - thats simply inarguable so why are you even arguing about it?
    Shoreline wrote:
    I'm genuinely interested, is it the fact that I have DAD mid ranked, or the fact that I have OHMSS last that upsets people here??
    How can you guys be so judgemental about someone just from one films placing?
    DAD is with plenty of faults, but I find it a lot more watchable than some others.

    Its really all about OHMSS.

    I can understand how some people might not have DAD rock bottom as they might hate Bond going into space and Jaws falling in love or think TMWTGG with its elephants, kung fu schoolgirls and slide whistles is even more risible so I'm not going to slaughter you for that. Yes 15th is waaaaaay too high and would be pretty laughable if done in isolation but to have OHMSS last really is beyond all sense and reason.

    The only explanation you have offered forth so far for justifying the position of OHMSS is that 'Lazenby is a chimp'. Well OK. Fair enough. For the sake of argument lets say Bond is played by the PG Tips chimp in OHMSS. It is still a million times better than DAD.

    Lazenby isnt the greatest actor in history thats for sure but hey - sorry to break it to you so bluntly - but neither is Brozza. Personally I prefer Lazenby's performance to Brozza's in DAD but I guess thats just taste and I have no problem if you think Brozza is better. I do think Brozza does the best he can in DAD given the shocking material he has to work with so because I'm a generous sort of guy I'll give you that Brozza is better than Laz.

    So you lead 1-0.

    Now all you need to do is tell me one single other aspect in which DAD is better than OHMSS?

    I'm not even going to ask for two. Just one. Give me just one and I'll cave in and say you are correct.

    Faithfulness to Fleming (because I know what a fan you are of Ian's work), acting, direction, script, plot, music, action, sets - you can choose from any of these aspects or any more you can think of yourself.

    You just need to find one.

    Just one.

    It really fills me with sadness that you are unable to see how ridiculous you are being and its actually an insult to the late Peter Hunt and that you can even entertain the idea of ranking Tamahori's 'opus' above Peter's masterpiece.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I don't think you can be a Bond fan and consider DAD anything above bottom five. That's not a Bond fan, that's a fan of pitful "cinema" passing itself off as Bond.

    It's called personal preference. GoldenEye, Licence To Kill and Skyfall are my top three Bond movies, yet Die Another Day is in my top 15. I get some enjoyment out of it. Just because someone likes Die Another Day over OHMSS doesn't mean he's not a fan. He has personal preference. So please don't say Well if you like DAD over this then you're not a Bond fan. Back in 2002 I used to think DAD was the best Bond film at the time. Granted I was 11. But as I've grown my opinions on it have change considerably. Were all Bond fans here. Don't let your preferences overrun someone else's. rant over.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Gotta agree w/Murdock here... I like Star Trek : The Final Frontier (a film most fans have at the bottom, or close to it) better than at least 4 other Trek films, but I'm still a fan. There isn't a Bond film from EON that I can't see a case being made for it's supreme entertainment value (even MR & DAD).
  • edited September 2013 Posts: 3,494
    @Wiz- WOW, you actually admitted that Brosnan is a better actor than your beloved George? My, you are exceedingly generous today. This is hard to believe. Did you win the lottery? Did someone kidnap the real Wiz to impersonate him? Did a free case of your favorite liquor fall offa da truck last night and thoroughly inebriate you? Is the sky falling? ;)

    I have to save this for posterity and blackmail before you change your mind :))
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    @Wiz- WOW, you actually admitted that Brosnan is a better actor than your beloved George? My, you are exceedingly generous today. This is hard to believe. Did you win the lottery? Did someone kidnap the real Wiz to impersonate him? Did a free case of your favorite liquor fall offa da truck last night and thoroughly inebriate you? Is the sky falling? ;)

    I have to save this for posterity and blackmail before you change your mind :))

    You misunderstand me (or perhaps I didn't express it as clearly as I could have). I'm not admitting Brozza is a better actor than Laz (well at least not at playing Bond) its just I felt so sorry for Shoreline that I decided to give him a chance to explain his logic by conceding the only point he has raised as to why he hates OHMSS.

    You should know I would never stoop to slagging the legend - although I can understand why people rate him bottom.

    What I can't understand is how OHMSS is worse than DAD. Sorry to bang on about it but I'm just simply at a loss to explain it - like why people watch Mrs Brown's Boys or in this day and age still believe in God.
  • LicencedToKilt69007LicencedToKilt69007 Belgium, Wallonia
    Posts: 523
    Total agreement with @Murdock's latest post !
  • Posts: 2,402
    But that's the thing. That isn't Bond as written by Ian Fleming, DAD is just an amateur hour, shit, generic Hollywood garbage action film that happens to have a main character named James Bond. No amount of shoehorned references will ever link the celluloid excrement that is DAD to the other 22 films for me.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited September 2013 Posts: 17,789
    But that's the thing. That isn't Bond as written by Ian Fleming

    Most Bond movies fit that description, I'm afraid. :-?
  • edited September 2013 Posts: 3,494
    chrisisall wrote:
    But that's the thing. That isn't Bond as written by Ian Fleming

    Most Bond movies fit that description, I'm afraid. :-?

    Yes, that's true. Mostly though in the two "playboy" eras ;)

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited September 2013 Posts: 16,351
    But that's the thing. That isn't Bond as written by Ian Fleming, DAD is just an amateur hour, shit, generic Hollywood garbage action film that happens to have a main character named James Bond. No amount of shoehorned references will ever link the celluloid excrement that is DAD to the other 22 films for me.

    When most new fans watch a Bond Movie for the first time, they don't know or care about "Fleming's Bond" It doesn't matter if the film is good or bad, If it entertains the viewer then they can like what they want. For example, I like Moonraker over Goldfinger, yet I still have Licence to Kill in my Top 3. Does that mean I'm not a Bond fan? Gee Wiz guys I guess I have to leave now. Don't push your opinion's over someone else's. Learn to accept someone else's personal preference. Not everyone share's the same opinions as you. You think Brosnan's the worst Bond where I think he's the Best. I grew up with the Brosnan films and I still love them to this day.

  • Liking DAD better than OHMSS is like an art critic saying "That Van Gogh bloke was OK I guess but I much prefer Neil Buchanan..."



    ;-)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited September 2013 Posts: 9,117
    Liking DAD better than OHMSS is like an art critic saying "That Van Gogh bloke was OK I guess but I much prefer Neil Buchanan..."



    ;-)

    Neil Buchanan!!

    Priceless Willy old son. If I could bring myself to type 'LOL' I most certainly would.
    But that's the thing. That isn't Bond as written by Ian Fleming, DAD is just an amateur hour, shit, generic Hollywood garbage action film that happens to have a main character named James Bond. No amount of shoehorned references will ever link the celluloid excrement that is DAD to the other 22 films for me.

    This is exactly the point.

    Preferring DAD over OHMSS does mean you are not a James Bond fan, merely a fan of films featuring a guy named James Bond.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited September 2013 Posts: 17,789
    FRWL is the only true Bond movie; if you like any other 'James Bond movie' better than that one, you are certainly not a true fan of Bond. [-X
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    chrisisall wrote:
    FRWL is the only true Bond movie; if you like any other 'James Bond movie' better than that one, you are certainly not a true fan of Bond. [-X


    :-))
  • Posts: 2,402
    I can at least find a respect for Fleming, a goddamn acknowledgement at least, in even the most removed of the other 22 films. There's none of that in DAD whatsoever.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited September 2013 Posts: 16,351
    I can at least find a respect for Fleming, a goddamn acknowledgement at least, in even the most removed of the other 22 films. There's none of that in DAD whatsoever.

    The only Flemingesque part of DAD is this.

    M: You had your cyanide.
    Bond: Threw it away years ago, what the hell is this all about?


    In FRWL (The Novel) I believe he mentioned something about throwing away his Cyanide capsule.

    Liking DAD over OHMSS has nothing to do with Respecting Fleming. It's a goddamn movie.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I can at least find a respect for Fleming, a goddamn acknowledgement at least, in even the most removed of the other 22 films. There's none of that in DAD whatsoever.
    To completely remove DAD from the other EON Bonds is to jump onto a slippery slope, fun I grant you, but then you can begin to dismiss Bond movies at your leisure.
    Moore's all suck from the goofy.
    Brosnans are pastiche garbage.
    Lazenby's was crap due to an unseasoned actor.
    Dalton's was... well, you can't fault his. :))

    But, see what I'm saying? As bad as DAD ultimately was, I'll watch it probably six more times before I die, which is six times more than I'll watch NSNA, or CR '67.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    chrisisall wrote:
    It's in my guilty pleasure pile along with Batman & Robin
    chrisisall wrote:
    I like Star Trek : The Final Frontier (a film most fans have at the bottom, or close to it) better than at least 4 other Trek films, but I'm still a fan. There isn't a Bond film from EON that I can't see a case being made for it's supreme entertainment value (even MR & DAD).
    Final Frontier has it's moments so I can see where you're coming from but Batman and Robin? I could never sit through it in it's entirety ever again. I'm sorry but it's just terrible with no redeeming qualities. At least DAD has some moments that I can appreciate.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    pachazo wrote:
    DAD has some moments that I can appreciate.
    Then we agree on something!
  • Posts: 2,402
    I find calling DAD better than B/R to be offensive. Hahahaha, I'm sorry that might be a bit much, but honestly it's not like the Batman films were that sacred at that point in time; DAD tarnished the reputation of some true masterpieces.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    chrisisall wrote:
    Then we agree on something!
    I like it.
    I find calling DAD better than B/R to be offensive. Hahahaha, I'm sorry that might be a bit much, but honestly it's not like the Batman films were that sacred at that point in time; DAD tarnished the reputation of some true masterpieces.
    Interesting point but I personally find B&R to be completely unwatchable. I don't like DAD but it's not anywhere close to the worst movie I've ever seen. Opinions will differ of course. Also, you could make the argument that prior Bond films already tarnished that reputation.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I find calling DAD better than B/R to be offensive.
    You must be joking.
    :))
  • edited September 2013 Posts: 251
    Well, where to start??
    While I am not quite ready to join Wizard and Sir Henry's nazi logic of having to think the fact that their opinions and views are true and the way, I do find it funny!

    You know, you have to accept some people will like different things to you, and Wizard, you really are a little bit too angry and self righteous for me to take!

    I'm not trying to out Fleming you, and you must understand, if I want Fleming, I re read the books again. I don't need it in all my Bond films for me to enjoy them.
    I happen to feel that only the fist four films got anywhere close, and certainly not the Craig era which I see is a popular opinion also... Not that stops me from enjoying them !!

    A lead actor is a critical element in any film, and Lazenby is so very un engaging to watch.
    Also, I find the fin drags on way to long.
    The story itself is just as fantastical as DAD or many other Bonds, this in itself doesn't bother me.
    Nor did ridiculous things like jet packs and mini underwater breathers in Thunderball stop me loving it as a great movie.

    OHMSS is a good Fleming story, great great music, but just doesn't float my boat ultimately.
    DAD does have some horrific moments, cgi and theme song are awful but it's a fun romp. Amazing fencing scene, and the lead actor is engaging, and carries of well.

    Please, you can't right people's opinions off just because they are not yours.
  • edited September 2013 Posts: 3,494
    @Shoreline- how do you figure I'm a Nazi based on having an opinion on OHMSS vs DAD, especially one that's largely accepted by most everyone? Who's writing off other's opinions now? It sure appears to me, especially given the insult you've just hurled at me, that you're quite the smug little Nazi yourself.

    And how is a movie like OHMSS with the most "fantastical" element being a relatively simple enough brainwashing plot involving biological warfare even compete with a diamond driven space laser, genetically altered humans, or invisible cars in the same sense? Or is this just another Nazi opinion too?
  • I said nazi logic, not you are a nazi, please read carefully.
    It's in response to you clearly struggling to accept the fact that someone likes DAD more than OHMSS.
    I never said one was better than the other, my rankings are the preference of my enjoyment of them.
    I don't even hate OHMSS.
    Get over it.
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