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What if George Lazenby had been in Diamonds Are Forever?

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  • TouchMyButtonsTouchMyButtons Banned
    edited May 2012 Posts: 228
    Sean was too old looking for DAF, I'd definitely like to see lazenby in DAF if it were done seriously and on point with the book. Lazenby could have evolved into a great bond over the years, he was only a car salesman years before and with the right coaching he could have developed his own bondian ways. Instead we got 12 years of a comedy act starring Roger Moore.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Signed_By_RogerMoore wrote:
    Nowt wrong with Diamonds are Forever, leave the classic alone

    Nowt wrong? It's got more plot holes than a string vest, a lazy, 'I'm only here for the money' performance from Big Sean, a limp finale, and Blofeld in drag FFS!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Much as I love George and OHMSS I think there is a definite Marilyn Monroe/Hendrix/Jim Morrison thing going on here.

    The fact that George was taken from us in his prime and we never got to see him grow fat and old or get given woeful scripts a la DAF and TMWTGG makes us see things through slightly rose tinted glasses.

    George was awesome in OHMSS with Peter Hunt pulling out all the stops in directing one of the best Bond scripts of all time. Everyone involved with OHMSS was on the top of their game but with DAF I dont think theres anyone who worked on it who could hand on heart say they put in 110%. Pitch an inexperienced and not particularly popular (with the public) actor into this environment and can we be sure that a Laz DAF would be significantly better?

    We're all assuming that George signing on for another picture means DAF automatically becomes a gritty revenge driven epic but with the decreased box office for OHMSS theres every chance that Cubby and Harry wouldve been wary of going down the serious route again and the DAF we wouldve ended up with would not have been that much different.

  • JarrodJarrod
    edited May 2012 Posts: 232
    As far as Bond actors and the legacy they leave behind, Lazenby and Dalton are the only two (imho) with perfect batting averages. Maybe because of their short tenure, they are allotted less respect, yet their films are completely solid. Brosnan had he only been in Goldeneye, he would have been propelled to legendary status. But he had the unfortunate tenure of spending the next 3 films slowly unmaking his popularity. Also, I'm not sure if Goldfinger would be considered the classic, had Dr. No and FRWL not preceded it. Because of the previous entries, audiences at the time could patiently sit through a prisoner Bond, being fully entertained by Sean's charms. Lazenby has never had another Bond film to support or diminish his reputation. Similar to Dalton, who in my opinion made some of the best Bond films, without the magical 3rd installment, or the 4th disaster.

    "Much as I love George and OHMSS I think there is a definite Marilyn Monroe/Hendrix/Jim Morrison thing going on here." - Totally! But that's what makes it so cool. There has to be something in the series that is slightly different, which appeals to cult enthusiasts. It's all part of the charm of the series. I'm a number #1 fan of the Lazenby cult!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Similarly if SF is a pile of shite, DC will go down in history as a decent Bond let down by his scripts. If for whatever reason he had bowed out after CR then in 25 years he wouldve been a legend.

    Lets just hope SF is as good as CR and then he'll be on course to be oneof the best ever. It does seem to me that with CR and SF everyone involved is desperate to do everything they can to make the best film possible.

    Dont think you could say this about YOLT, DAF and most of Rog and Brozzas tenures.
  • oo7oo7
    Posts: 1,068
    George throws a good punch and looks cool driving but he sounds crap. If anything I look forward to seeing OHMSS being reacted by DC in the new video game. I will be interested to see what story will play out like.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Jarrod wrote:
    As far as Bond actors and the legacy they leave behind, Lazenby and Dalton are the only two (imho) with perfect batting averages. Maybe because of their short tenure, they are allotted less respect, yet their films are completely solid. Brosnan had he only been in Goldeneye, he would have been propelled to legendary status. But he had the unfortunate tenure of spending the next 3 films slowly unmaking his popularity. Also, I'm not sure if Goldfinger would be considered the classic, had Dr. No and FRWL not preceded it. Because of the previous entries, audiences at the time could patiently sit through a prisoner Bond, being fully entertained by Sean's charms. Lazenby has never had another Bond film to support or diminish his reputation. Similar to Dalton, who in my opinion made some of the best Bond films, without the magical 3rd installment, or the 4th disaster.

    "Much as I love George and OHMSS I think there is a definite Marilyn Monroe/Hendrix/Jim Morrison thing going on here." - Totally! But that's what makes it so cool. There has to be something in the series that is slightly different, which appeals to cult enthusiasts. It's all part of the charm of the series. I'm a number #1 fan of the Lazenby cult!

    You don't think Craig has a perfect batting average at this point? If Skyfall ends up being as good as I think and hope his first 3 films could rival Connery's.

    BTW I have George Lazenby a spot in the "Special Thanks" credits and it got a big laugh out of the audience. Im happy to see a general audience knows who he is.
  • JarrodJarrod
    Posts: 232
    Well, I do think Craig is a very good actor, and (unlike a lot of people) I actually like QoS quite a bit, and find it a worthy follow-up to Casino Royale. But I still feel like he hasn't really played the quintessential Bond. It's really kind of unusual thing to have a Bond actor in 2 films, and still he hasn't played the bonafide James Bond. But I'm excited to see Skyfall, and I hope to see an old fashioned Bond adventure.
  • JarrodJarrod
    Posts: 232
    Oh, by the way I can't wait to see the finished project. Maybe other Bond fans would like to as well. :)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited May 2012 Posts: 6,382
    Well, for starters George would have thrown the gangsters out the window, then bedded Plenty.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    TouchMyButtons wrote:
    Sean was too old looking for DAF, I'd definitely like to see lazenby in DAF if it were done seriously and on point with the book. Lazenby could have evolved into a great bond over the years, he was only a car salesman years before and with the right coaching he could have developed his own bondian ways. Instead we got 12 years of a comedy act starring Roger Moore.

    A comedy act? I wouldn't say that at all. Take such scenes like the interrogation of Andrea Anders in TMWTGG, sending Locque to his death in FYEO, shooting Stromberg four flippin' times at the end of TSWLM (two to the "you know where"), threatening to kill Rosie if she didn't talk in LALD, racing all over Germany to defuse the atomic bomb in OP, eliminating Drax's tree sniper in MR, or virtually any scene with Max Zorin in AVTAK.
  • JarrodJarrod
    Posts: 232
    @00Beast - Totally agree. Roger Moore is not the clown (despite his appearance in Octopussy) people make him out to be. He could be a tough S.O.B. if need be, and some forget that.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Jarrod wrote:
    @00Beast - Totally agree. Roger Moore is not the clown (despite his appearance in Octopussy) people make him out to be. He could be a tough S.O.B. if need be, and some forget that.

    Tough S.O.B. - not really. His fight sequences fail to convince, and Rog didn't like the rough stuff anyway that's why the films went with the more jokey feel to them. He gave his version of the character, but for me it's not Bond. Having said that I still would rather watch a Moore Bond film than some of the crap that's put out as entertainment these days! (Transformers for instance!).
  • JarrodJarrod
    Posts: 232
    Roger Moore was my Bond introduction, so I've never had too much a problem with his version of Bond. Though I agree that Roger Moore was a lighter version of Bond, he still has some moments that qualify as tough. I actually think his first 2 films demonstrate a colder and more ruthless version. I don't want to repeat 00Beast's list, but I'll add that Moore could be ruthless with women especially in the first couple of films. In LALD he threatens Rosie with a gun to her head, and he sleeps with Solitaire (through tricking her) and offers only to protect her if she gives him the information he needs. In MWTGG he smacks Andrea Anders around for information, after she gives it to him and is killed, he looks barely bothered about it. Maybe a joke, but he also bribes a child, welches on his agreement and pushes the kid off the boat. In TSWLM, Moore demonstrates his coldblooded and ruthless side when killing Sandor after he gives him the information he needs. Also, Moore had no problem killing a beautiful woman, safely underwater in his Lotus, he still sends a rocket to blow-up Naomi. Moonraker's fight scene between Bond and Chang is pretty good, and I think Moore hold's his own pretty well in that fight. I find most of FYEO pretty serious with some pretty tough Bond moments as well. Again, Moore demonstrates his coldblooded side when killing Locque, and he's pretty tough to take on an Ice Hockey team. I'll agree that by the time of AVTAK the fight scenes became a little more ridiculous, and it was obvious that a younger Bond was required at that point. But I do feel there's an unfortunate amount of Roger Moore dismissal these days similar to the current feelings about Brosnan. I do think these guys kept the series going and viable, often more than they are credited.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Jarrod wrote:
    I do feel there's an unfortunate amount of Roger Moore dismissal these days similar to the current feelings about Brosnan. I do think these guys kept the series going and viable, often more than they are credited.

    I agree with this sentiment. I adore Fleming, I mean I think the original novels are unsurpassable, but I do think a lot of fans get bogged down in the cinematic Bond having to be faithful at all costs to his original vision.

    At the end of the day the most enduring and popular characters in history are those that are versatile and malleable, a creative mind can step in and deliver their vision of the character. I'm not suggesting this is high art, God no. The Moore and Brosnan incarnations may not be to everyone's taste but I don't think you can discount them. 'Bond' is constantly evolving and I would argue that without Brosnan to counterbalance Craig, CR would never have had the impact it did. So if you do hate Brosnan then at least you have that to thank him for.


  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    If Lazenby had returned for DAF, the Scottish International Education Trust would not have been established.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Jarrod wrote:
    Roger Moore was my Bond introduction, so I've never had too much a problem with his version of Bond. Though I agree that Roger Moore was a lighter version of Bond, he still has some moments that qualify as tough. I actually think his first 2 films demonstrate a colder and more ruthless version. I don't want to repeat 00Beast's list, but I'll add that Moore could be ruthless with women especially in the first couple of films. In LALD he threatens Rosie with a gun to her head, and he sleeps with Solitaire (through tricking her) and offers only to protect her if she gives him the information he needs. In MWTGG he smacks Andrea Anders around for information, after she gives it to him and is killed, he looks barely bothered about it. Maybe a joke, but he also bribes a child, welches on his agreement and pushes the kid off the boat. In TSWLM, Moore demonstrates his coldblooded and ruthless side when killing Sandor after he gives him the information he needs. Also, Moore had no problem killing a beautiful woman, safely underwater in his Lotus, he still sends a rocket to blow-up Naomi. Moonraker's fight scene between Bond and Chang is pretty good, and I think Moore hold's his own pretty well in that fight. I find most of FYEO pretty serious with some pretty tough Bond moments as well. Again, Moore demonstrates his coldblooded side when killing Locque, and he's pretty tough to take on an Ice Hockey team. I'll agree that by the time of AVTAK the fight scenes became a little more ridiculous, and it was obvious that a younger Bond was required at that point. But I do feel there's an unfortunate amount of Roger Moore dismissal these days similar to the current feelings about Brosnan. I do think these guys kept the series going and viable, often more than they are credited.

    I like your argument - but most of the things you mention were done tongue-in-cheek, sending Sandor to his death 'what a helpful chap', the only truly Bondian bit is in FYEO (my joint fav Moore Bond) the aforementioned killing of Locque and Moore had to be pushed into doing it by director Glenn.
    I don't have a big downer on Roger - most of my formative Bonds were his, I just don't think the films he was in were particularly good. And for me he just isn't Bond. But I'll still keep watching - got all the Blu-rays to go through in October!
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    Lazenby in DAF?
    I think the film would have had a more serious tone and Lazenby would have been fine. They would have gone to the light hearted shytt in his third outting, LALD...
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    Jarrod wrote:
    Roger Moore was my Bond introduction, so I've never had too much a problem with his version of Bond. Though I agree that Roger Moore was a lighter version of Bond, he still has some moments that qualify as tough. I actually think his first 2 films demonstrate a colder and more ruthless version. I don't want to repeat 00Beast's list, but I'll add that Moore could be ruthless with women especially in the first couple of films. In LALD he threatens Rosie with a gun to her head, and he sleeps with Solitaire (through tricking her) and offers only to protect her if she gives him the information he needs. In MWTGG he smacks Andrea Anders around for information, after she gives it to him and is killed, he looks barely bothered about it. Maybe a joke, but he also bribes a child, welches on his agreement and pushes the kid off the boat. In TSWLM, Moore demonstrates his coldblooded and ruthless side when killing Sandor after he gives him the information he needs. Also, Moore had no problem killing a beautiful woman, safely underwater in his Lotus, he still sends a rocket to blow-up Naomi. Moonraker's fight scene between Bond and Chang is pretty good, and I think Moore hold's his own pretty well in that fight. I find most of FYEO pretty serious with some pretty tough Bond moments as well. Again, Moore demonstrates his coldblooded side when killing Locque, and he's pretty tough to take on an Ice Hockey team. I'll agree that by the time of AVTAK the fight scenes became a little more ridiculous, and it was obvious that a younger Bond was required at that point. But I do feel there's an unfortunate amount of Roger Moore dismissal these days similar to the current feelings about Brosnan. I do think these guys kept the series going and viable, often more than they are credited.

    I like your argument - but most of the things you mention were done tongue-in-cheek, sending Sandor to his death 'what a helpful chap', the only truly Bondian bit is in FYEO (my joint fav Moore Bond) the aforementioned killing of Locque and Moore had to be pushed into doing it by director Glenn.
    I don't have a big downer on Roger - most of my formative Bonds were his, I just don't think the films he was in were particularly good. And for me he just isn't Bond. But I'll still keep watching - got all the Blu-rays to go through in October!

    I've always thought that Roger was truly 007, just like Pierce Brosnan. The two of them are my favorite Bond actors for many a reason. Moore might have his scenes now and then where a face-palm is necessary, like that scene with May Day or the Bondola crud in Moonraker (my least favorite of Moore's), but all things considered, he's quite effective in the role of Bond. He can go from light-hearted and jovial to detective to Mr. suave and classy to a cold-blooded weapon in seconds. There's a lot of variety with Roger that some Bond actors could never pull off.
  • JarrodJarrod
    Posts: 232
    Kerim wrote:
    If Lazenby had returned for DAF, the Scottish International Education Trust would not have been established.
    Connery would just have used his salary from Zardoz to do it. I'd rather of had a Lazenby DAF.

  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    If Lazenby had been in Diamonds, it would of been a better film for it, instead of an unfit and overall inappropriate Connery just along for a big pay packet, it's all that needs to be said on this issue. The revenge angle for the death of Tracy was just overlooked of course, and the overall film that year was a major disappointment. Damn Lazenby's agent for persuading him to pull out of the role after just one appearance, he could of done so much more
  • Goldeneye95Goldeneye95
    Posts: 546
    George Lazenby would have delivered another great performance as James Bond. I also believe that DAF would have more action & that toughness would still be there. When we got to YOLT & DAF, Sir Sean Connery's toughness toned down a lot. And the James Bond character should always be played by an English actor. If an American actor was casted as James Bond, it should be Michael Weatherly.
  • JarrodJarrod
    Posts: 232
    In case anyone is interested, ten of George Lazenby's films were used in the making of the Diamonds Are Forever trailer. The films used for it were:

    1. On Her Majesty's Secret Services (1969) (clips from the film and the featurettes, also audio)
    2. Stoner (1974)
    3. Cover Girls (TV Movie) (1977)
    4. Death Dimension (1978)
    5. B.J. & The Bear (TV Series) - A Coffin With A View (1979) (footage and audio)
    6. The Return of the Man From U.N.C.L.E. - The Fifteen Years Later Affair (TV Movie) (1983)
    7. The Master (TV series) - Hostages (1984)
    8. Cover Up (TV Series) - Jack Of Spades (1985)
    9. Never Too Young To Die (1986)
    10. Alfred Hitchcock Presents - Diamonds Aren't Forever (Audio Only) (1989)

    Originally I also used a scene from "Evening in Byzantium" (TV Movie) (1978), but couldn't quite get the scene to work, so cut it out.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Just gave the trailer another watch- I still love it as much as the first time!

    I'm intrigued by this one scene in the trailer- where Lazenby has a guy at knife or gunpoint (it's very dark) and he says: 'I want the truth-- and when I'm convinced that you're telling it, this'll all be over.'

    What movie was that from? He's really dark in that scene! Almost reminded me of Dalton in LTK! Man, Lazenby in DAF.... what an unfortunate missed opportunity.
  • JarrodJarrod
    Posts: 232
    Thanks Master_Dahark! That scene is from the extremely rare TV Movie/ Pilot called Cover Girls (1977), which was a kind of Charlie's Angels rip-off that never turned to a TV series. Actor Don Johnson was in the film, as well as George Lazenby.
  • senthilvelsenthilvel
    Posts: 48
    In a way George Lazenby could have been a tough Bond but with a right mix of emotions, as DAF is a sequel to OHMSS. But the majestic looks of Connery and his inimitable charisma has made DAF enjoyable compared to OHMSS. Of course, if Lazenby had the luck DAF would have been his success rung of the ladder for few more Bond movies. Roger Moore of course followed the footsteps of Connery but carefully chosen to mix comedy to the role for a distinction or deviation from Connery formula. Moore should have left after Moonraker since the follow up films could not make a feel of a charismatic Bond as ageing was more visible with Moore
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    All things considered, I really do like Diamonds Are Forever as it stands; still though, should it have gone a darker path, more revenge-driven as expected, and with Lazenby returning to tie the loose ends, I think it would have been even better than what we already got. I'm no Lazenby fan by any means, you all know that, but when you get down to the heart of the matter, DAF could have been improved without the focus on the cartoonish, camp-related humor. However, even that makes DAF great!
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    It's not Lazenby alone who could have redeem DAF. It must have been directed by Peter Hunt. And Tom Mankiewicz should have been out of the picture. Even still the screenplay must have been more serious with no jokes or cheesy one-liners. I've always said that Lazenby makes a very decent portrayal except on the comical side.
    And Blofeld must've been Terry Savalas of course! A proper sequel to OHMSS!
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Too many inconsistencies for Blofeld in those few short years. First without hair, then hair, then in a neck-brace, then without, and back again etc

    What started out as a mysterious and powerful adversary eventually degenerated into an absurd and ridiculed figure, or character
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    I agree with the degeneration in the character personality but I have not problem with his changes in physical appearance as it is in the novels.
    But you're right, it's so inconsistent that the theories proposed by some members are requiered (like the two clones hyphothesis and the two timelines lemma).
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