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The Eurovision Song Contest Thread

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  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    Sure I know, because of Lordi.
    The "official" version is different of course.
    The ironic thing is that since they introduced the juries, they had to repeatedly disqualify jury votes time and time again, last year as well.
    The juries don't work. It's that simple. The shifting points around to neighbors is even worse now (Imho). That problem will anyway never be solvable.

    Now for transparence they altered the way the points will be announced. First the Jury votes, then the televote. At least that's a small step in the right direction.

    The jury votes DO work actually. They at least filter out certain huge demographic factors, like Turkish and Armenian immigrants residing in Netherlands or France. How believable was it that Netherlands gave 12 points to Turkey and/or Armenia year after year during the 100% televoting era (until 2008).

    Secondly, televoters have a way shorter attention span. They are the people on the sofa's, who only rise up if something ridiculous shows up. Jury's however is a different thing. Judges are somewhere in an obscure studio and have to watch the entire contest in detail. They do not leave the small studio for a cigarette or to buy some chocolates when another boring entry shows up. They have to sit out ALL 26 finalists and give a full ranking to the EBU.

    So no matter how well Belarus does in the Russian jury vote, there still is a Netherlands in their Top 10 (2014) or a Sweden (2015).

    Yes, with certain Eastern-European countries that will never be solved. Countries like Russia and Azerbaijan are always way more patriotic in nature than, let's say, Switzerland or Netherlands. So jury or televote: Russia will probably always give 8, 10 or 12 points to Belarus.

    But the jury's at least need to watch the whole show and judge ALL entries. It adds a quality aspect, expertise, to the festival that was lost when in 1998 the European Broadcasting Union tried to throw away all jury's and to massively introduce 100% televoting. I was always against 100% televoting.

    And you see it at the results really! Until 2009 certain countries really had trouble to get excited for more alternative Eurovision entries, like France 2009, Italy 2011, Albania 2012, Netherlands 2013, Netherlands 2014 or Latvia 2015. With the jury system these more 'difficult', less crazy staged songs, are being judged more fairly.

    Hence why I think the combined 50% televoting / 50% jury system is absolutely perfect. You always get a more balanced and less predictable result.

    On top of that, the actual voting this year WILL become very exciting again. Something that was the biggest hick-up of the revised and modernized contest. Just have a look at this video ;-):


  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited March 2016 Posts: 9,020
    I respect that you are in the "pro-jury" fraction.
    I am not and never will be.

    If circa 50 (10 juries) people can overthrow a landslide victory and even make a 3rd place out of it, then something is very wrong in the system and very prone to corruption.

    Well, I just hope that kind of thing will never happen again, now that the jury votes will be publicly televised in the finals.

    At least, at long last, the 5 main countries get a chance to present their song as well in the semi-finals. If Il Volo could have performed their song in the semi-final, they would have won as those certain juries would not have dared to down vote them.

    Anyways, I'm excited that the new ESC season is already in full speed.
    I have yet to hear a "winner" song. Ireland is my favourite so far, but of course I realise it will not win.

    I like Germany's effort very much, the best thing since Lena.
    Even the Swiss got a grip and are sending the best song since ages to the contest.
    Austria is my second favourite after Ireland. Although it will have no chance as French seems almost to be a language-non-grata at the ESC.

    It would be interesting to see what kind of music you like most at the ESC. Maybe, if there are others, they can give their favourites as well.

    Here some of my all time favourite ESC songs since 2003:

    Iceland:
    Euroband - This Is My Life
    Hera Björk - Je ne sais quoi
    Gréta Salóme & Jónsi - Never Forget

    Turkey:
    Hadise - Düm Tek Tek
    Sertab - Every Way That I Can
    Sibel Tüzün - Süper Star

    Cyprus:
    Ivi Adamou - La La Love

    Germany:
    Lena - Taken By A Stranger

    France:
    Anggun - Echo (You And I)

    Belgium:
    Kate Ryan - Je t'adore

    Ireland:
    Jedward - Lipstick

    Sweden:
    Loreen - Euphoria
    Eric Saade - Popular

    Ukraine:
    Alyosha - Sweet People
    Ani Lorak - Shady Lady
    Ruslana - Wild Dances

    Armenia:
    Sirusho - Qele Qele
    Inga & Anush - Jan Jan

    Spain:
    Pastora Soler: Quédate Conmigo

    Greece:
    Helena Paparizou - My Number One

    Norway:
    Margaret Berger - I Feed You My Love
    Mørland & Debrah Scarlett - A Monster Like Me

    Hungary:
    Nox - Forogj Vílág

    Croatia:
    Severina - Moja Stikla

    Belarus:
    Koldun - Work Your Magic

    Russia:
    Serebro - Song No 1

    Romania:
    Paula Seling + Ovi - Playing With Fire

    The Netherlands:
    The Common Linnets - Calm Before The Storm



  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Oh no! It's not that time again is it? X_X
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Oh no! It's not that time again is it? X_X

    Dear dear @RogueAgent. Darling boy. My sweet forummember. Lovely Bond fan.

    Can you.....please open up your mind (and ears, and eyes) a bit, by giving your reviews of these Eurovision performances? As a comparison, you can perhaps compare some recent Oscar performances of movie songs....and James Bond songs :-).

    Oowh, and as an extra, if you have some time, could you rank these performances from best to worst? I am so curious @RogueAgent what you think of them.

    Here we go:

    France 2002 - 5th place:


    Belgium 2003 - Silver medal:


    Serbia-Montenegro 2004 - Silver medal:


    Bosnia-Herzegovina 2006 - Bronze medal:


    Serbia 2007 - Winner:


    Norway 2008 - 5th place:


    Iceland 2009 - Silver medal:


    Germany 2010 - Winner:


    Italy 2011 - Bronze medal:


    Italy 2012 - 9th place:


    Estonia 2012 - 6th place:


    Netherlands 2013 - 9th place:


    Hungary 2013 - 10th place:


    Austria 2014 - Winner:


    Netherlands 2014 - Silver medal:


    Latvia 2015 - 6th place:


    Estonia 2015 - 7th place:



    If someone in here say that all above performances are CRAP, and that the songs are CRAP, and that the circus act is CRAP, and that the voices were CRAP, and that from A to Z everything is CRAP on that contest....then surely you haven't watched these performances :-).
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Some great choices @Gustav_Graves

    I give you just two clips to watch from the ESC in 2015 so you people can see that the ESC absolutely can deliver great music and great performances that are worth watching:

    If you like one or both of these two performances you should give the ESC 2016 a try, there is always stuff to discover.


    The Ballad: unconventional and original
    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oVKJK9yb5xY"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    The mid-tempo song, captivating performance, original and visually perfect
    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IjH-HYAFICg"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Let's hope @Rogueagent has read my post ;-)
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Unfortunately most of the songs are indeed not that great. I mean how many composers work on that? How many competitions must be won to participate in the final competition? And then we get that same old pathetic ballad with horrendous schmalthzy lyrics or silly Euro pop. There should really be a better outcome. When I talk to some non-European friends who saw it, they always ask me: Com'on you should have some better Songs. There are also not that many Eurovision songs that are remembered that well (except for Waterloo from ABBA). Also most oft the performers are also forgotten.
    There are indeed always a few good songs (Calm before the storm) but they are the minority. As a German I always wondered why people liked Lena so very much. I thought the last candidate was actually much better but she received zero points, even though the song was not bad. This year's German candidate could really be successfull since the song is very catchy and modern but I think she will again be very unpopular, just because she is German.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited March 2016 Posts: 1,731
    I just really, really want Russia to win so that the world's foremost unofficial gay mega-event will unfold right under Putin's nose :D :D :D
    And he will be able to do nothing about it :-j
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    GBF wrote: »
    Unfortunately most of the songs are indeed not that great. I mean how many composers work on that? How many competitions must be won to participate in the final competition? And then we get that same old pathetic ballad with horrendous schmalthzy lyrics or silly Euro pop. There should really be a better outcome.

    From all of the examples I posted, I can, if you want, post similar songs that have nothing...NOTHING to do with Eurovision. I think you're entirely clouded by the 'Eurovision'-tag and all you can do is judge the examples with in mind all the bad and cheesy Eurovision entries that Eurovision became famous off.
    GBF wrote: »
    When I talk to some non-European friends who saw it, they always ask me: Com'on you should have some better Songs. There are also not that many Eurovision songs that are remembered that well (except for Waterloo from ABBA). Also most oft the performers are also forgotten.

    Sweden's 'Euphoria' (Winner 2012), Norway's 'Fairytale' (Winner 2009) and also last year's winner 'Heroes (also Sweden) were hits across Europe. Especially 'Euphoria'. On top of that they massively invaded the iTunes charts during the actual Eurovision week.

    On top of that, those winners I just mentioned can be perfectly compared with British/American pop music that doesn't find its way to Eurovision. Think of Lily Allen, Mika, Oh-Land, Royksopp, Bruno Mars, David Guetta. And hell, I even like to mention Adele here. Her discography mainly consists of emotional ballads. Songs like 'Skyfall' and 'Hello' are among her best songs, and a similar sound makes its way to Eurovision. Think of 'Rise Like A Phoenix' (Winner 2014).
    GBF wrote: »
    There are indeed always a few good songs (Calm before the storm) but they are the minority. As a German I always wondered why people liked Lena so very much.

    Yes, you keep wondering. But you haven't found an answer yet. Please try. TRY to understand why millions of Europeans voted for Lena's 'Satellite'. I know the answer. NOT because she sang some kind of cheesy Euro-pop entry. NOT because she wore a Klingon mask on stage. NOT because she did some salto's on stage. No, she won, because her song at that particular point in time mirrored some non-Eurovision hit songs like those of Lily Allen for instance.
    GBF wrote: »
    I thought the last candidate was actually much better but she received zero points, even though the song was not bad. This year's German candidate could really be successfull since the song is very catchy and modern but I think she will again be very unpopular, just because she is German.

    You use arguments that are a mix of shameless assumptions and personal taste. IMO I found Germany last year quite OK, but she lacked any 'X-Factor'. I think she got '0 points' because she failed to impress people. And in hindsight I can perfectly understand that. Moreover, you tend to forget that she was the runner-up last year in the German national final. The actual winner decided to not take part in Eurovision. Yeah well, if that's the case, you should blaim yourself for not taking part with the best song....the actual national winner.

    This year's entry I really like to be honest. And it seems that together with France she's a favourite for a TOP 10 placing in the final. You think way too negative without any good argument. Lena Meyer-Landrut was a popular winner back in 2010. So why not Jamie-Lee Kriewitz. Have some faith man.

    Here's the German entry:


    And it's very comparable to, for instance, Oh-Land (non-Eurovision):
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Can I say something else....something positive about Eurovision?

    It's nnowadays the only event, only day, only non-sports contest that brings Europeans together in a much better-spirited and positive way.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    fire_and_ice wrote: »
    God is this still going, last time I was aware of it Katrina and the Waves were taking part.

    Probably you're a Brit :-).
    I am Brittish, I am guessing no one from UK has won it since? I recall alot of political voting went on.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    All those little ex soviet countries just vote for each other. :( so for me at least,
    It's not fun anymore.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    Did UK get nul points one year?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    fire_and_ice wrote: »
    Did UK get nul points one year?

    Yes, more or less every year.
    Except for once in the late 00's.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    All those little ex soviet countries just vote for each other. :( so for me at least,
    It's not fun anymore.

    Let's have a look at the TOP 3 placings from some years then:

    2009:
    01. NORWAY
    02. ICELAND
    (05. UNITED KINGDOM)

    2010:
    01. GERMANY

    2011:
    02. ITALY
    03. SWEDEN

    2012:
    01. SWEDEN

    2013:
    01. DENMARK

    2014:
    01. AUSTRIA
    02. NETHERLANDS
    03. SWEDEN

    2015:
    01. SWEDEN
    03. ITALY

    If one has a close look at above results (TOP 3) at Eurovision, then almost immediately every remark about 'Eastern-Europe stealing votes and always winning it' becomes dated, inaccurate and complete bullocks.

    The 'classic Eurovision nations', the so-called 'founding fathers' (first participations in the 1950's and 1960's) are actually doing admirably at the contest in the past 7 years. The wrong conclusion about above list would be? When will Eastern Europe do well again at Eurovision? And most importantly: When will the United Kingdom finally stop whining and send a damn good song to Eurovision again???

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    My comment wasn't that they win, just that they vote for each other. Is so
    Predictable and not fun. :)
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    My comment wasn't that they win, just that they vote for each other. Is so
    Predictable and not fun. :)

    So how would you judge my country's 2nd place from 2014? Predictable and not fun? looking at the voting?

    You really need to be way way more precise, as there are usually 37 to 43 countries voting in the final. Yes, some of the votes are predictable. But every country has to vast 10 set of votes: A TOP 10 of results. From 1 point to 8 points, then 10 points and finally 12 points.

    There's too much variation in it to simply say 'it's predictable'. The results are sometimes a bit predictable. But that's normal after 10 countries have voted and your country is in 2nd place. You simply expect more of such votes. But that has been the story of Eurovision ever since 1956.

    Regarding 'voting for each other': Netherlands has NO-ONE as a neighbor or immigrant-rich country that keeps sending votes to us year after year. Actually, our dearest neighbor in 2014, Belgium, didn't bother to give us 12 points. Instead they gave 8. And we still came 2nd and got the silver medal.

    So again, your comments is a bit flawed and statistically proven....slightly untrue.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Perfectly willing to be set right, old boy.! :)
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    Sweden's 'Euphoria' (Winner 2012), Norway's 'Fairytale' (Winner 2009) and also last year's winner 'Heroes (also Sweden) were hits across Europe. Especially 'Euphoria'. On top of that they massively invaded the iTunes charts during the actual Eurovision week.

    On top of that, those winners I just mentioned can be perfectly compared with British/American pop music that doesn't find its way to Eurovision. Think of Lily Allen, Mika, Oh-Land, Royksopp, Bruno Mars, David Guetta. And hell, I even like to mention Adele here. Her discography mainly consists of emotional ballads. Songs like 'Skyfall' and 'Hello' are among her best songs, and a similar sound makes its way to Eurovision. Think of 'Rise Like A Phoenix' (Winner 2014).

    But have these songs been successfull because they are great or because they had an amazing audience all across Europe? Are there many older ESC songs that are still played on the radio or songS where you say oh this is really a perfectly composed pop or rock song?
    Have the performers been successfull afterwards? Mostly no? They usually don't even write the songs themselves and are generally casted together by some producers. There is little conection between them and the song itself. They are just performing a song some random person has written before.

    I am sorry but I think that most of the songs are very weak. "Rise Like A Phoenix" is not a bad song but it was in 2014 one of the only good songs and deserved to win it. But has he/she won the competition because of the song? Maybe but probably it was more because of the political message and the performance, not the song itself. Like last year. Most people said they voted for the song because of the visual effects but not because of the song itself. I also don't think that most people watch the compotion for the music but for the competition itself and for the amusement of watching some crazy performance. At least I and many of my friends do it like this.

    As I said, there are always two or three good songs but most are just awfull. And yes this is just my opinion. But if you say all these songs are great it is also just your opinion.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Here is the Norwegian winner this year. Pretty weak.

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    THIS is the best ever Norwegian song at the contest and one of my very favourite songs from all ESC's. Bloody freaking cool.

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gjm-kCOMaPY"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    One of the better, agree. Should have won that year.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    One of the better, agree. Should have won that year.

    I agree, I knew back then Emilie DeForest will win, but Margaret Berger winning would have been a dream come true.

    Sadly my real favourites never win.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    One of the better, agree. Should have won that year.

    That't true. I liked that song, too. One of the more unique and catchy songs.

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Here is the Norwegian winner this year. Pretty weak.


    Oh honestly I hope it won't make it to the finals. I really dislike it... and it sounds as if parts of it had been taken from "Euphoria".
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    One of the best Norwegian entries that lost to some other crap in 2014. Some crap won the international finals as well.

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @GBF

    True, and there were quite a few other in the last couple of years that also tried to copy Euphoria.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    By the way this was my absolute favourite song last year.

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-oOQKYopwJ4"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited March 2016 Posts: 9,020
    If I remember correctly you @Thunderfinger have impeccable taste in music.
    Do you remember them, one of my favourites of the past, not sure you like this music style though.

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kva951_ov0s"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    By the way this was my absolute favourite song last year.

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-oOQKYopwJ4"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Yes this was not bad. My favourite was the candidate from Belgium. I like the song and also the lyrics as well the video:



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