SOLO by William Boyd - Reviews & Feedback

18911131418

Comments

  • Posts: 2,599
    Maybe. There's no reason why we can't have adult Bond books set between 1945, the end of the war and 1952 when Bond was involved in the Casino Royale affair. Also, we could also have books set between Fleming's possibly. I think it would be okay though to have some books continue up to the point where Bond turns 50. It'd be interesting to have some novels set in the 1970's.

    I wonder if IFP will continue to commission authors to write adult Bond while Cole is writing Young Bond.

    If they do contemporary Bond again I hope it doesn't continue on from Deaver's book. I didn't like how Deaver had James working for some shadowy organisation. I would prefer to have him work for the good old fashioned SIS. Get Charlie Higson to do it.

    As I said on another thread, I also think that it would be a good idea to hire a children's author to even write the adult Bond books - someone who has the partial mind of a child like Fleming and Higson. This way they can give us the traditional, boyish adventure, fairy tale type plots that Fleming and Higson gave us yet at the same time, obviously because they're adults, they can draw into the dark, gritty side of an adult Bond coupled with the detailed, almost believable explanations of how a villain like Dr No managed to do the unbelievable.
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 2,599
    chrisisall wrote:
    Bounine wrote:
    I really hope then that IFP get someone to write 4 or 5 next time.
    I kind of like one offs due to the new voice of each author.
    But we've had that now.
    Yeah, another such as Gardner would be good.

    And IMO the only place to go continuing from Fleming directly is Bond's retirement. It might be good to leave SOLO as the finale for that timeline, eh?
    What do you think?

    Maybe. There's no reason why we can't have adult Bond books set between 1945, the end of the war and 1952 when Bond was involved in the Casino Royale affair. I'd really like this. Still hanging out for the war stories too. Also, we could also have books set between Fleming's possibly. I think it would be okay though to have some books continue up to the point where Bond turns 50. It'd be interesting to have some novels set in the 1970's. Woody did it but these were just novelizations. Bond doesn't necessarily have to have one big adventure per year. He didn't in Higson's books. He had 5 big adventures in 1933 and 34. There's also the years between 1963 or 64 after TMWTGG assignment and 1968 around the time Colonel Sun was set.

    I wonder if IFP will continue to commission authors to write adult Bond novels while Cole is writing Young Bond.

    If they do contemporary Bond again I hope it doesn't continue on from Deaver's book. I didn't like how Deaver had James working for some shadowy organisation (not to mention the almost one dimensional James Bond with a personality that was so different that he was barely recognisable). I would prefer to have him work for the good old fashioned SIS. Get Charlie Higson to do it.

    As I said on another thread, I also think that it would be a good idea to hire a children's author to even write the adult Bond books - someone who has the partial mind of a child like Fleming and Higson. This way they can give us the traditional, boyish adventure, fairy tale type plots that Fleming and Higson gave us yet at the same time, obviously because they're adults, they can draw into the dark, gritty side of an adult Bond coupled with the detailed, almost believable explanations of how a villain like Dr No managed to do the unbelievable.

    Did John Gardner sign a contract to write 14 Bond novels right from the beginning or did he initially agree to do around half of this amount and then sign another contract a few more books along? To think, Gardner's first Bond book was released the year before I started school (13 years after Colonel Sun). I hadn't even heard of James Bond. Then his last one, COLD, came out when I was 19 years old. The first time I read them all was in 96 when his last one hit the shelves.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Bounine wrote:
    I think it would be okay though to have some books continue up to the point where Bond turns 50. It'd be interesting to have some novels set in the 1970's.
    Yes! Like Bond extending the '45' rule, because...
    HE'S BOND!!!
    :))
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 2,599
    Oh yes, 45 is mandatory retirement age. Well, yes, he's Bond -still fit and M loves him so keep him on! :) The rules can always be bent. Who knows, maybe the rule changed by 1970..? :) As far as Fleming's timeline goes though and going by the 1924 birthdate (I think we can safely presume that Bond wasn't born after this year), we probably shouldn't have anymore set after 1974.

    I wish Boyd hadn't have specifically mentioned Bond's age in SOLO. Fleming never did this. "Early 40's" would have been better.

    Long live James Bond!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Bounine wrote:
    I wish Boyd hadn't have specifically mentioned Bond's age in SOLO.
    I rather like it- a nod to those of us who've grown up (& older) on Bond!
    Let reboots (cinematic & literary) take care of the kids. ;)
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 2,599
    Anyway, I don't actually feel like 45 years is that old anymore when you look at people like Daniel Craig and Tom Cruise who is 50 and only looks around 42, jumping around and engaging in all this strenuous action. There's hope yet! :) At the risk of sounding immodest (I'm just mentioning this because we're on the subject of age ;) ) but I'm 36 and people tell me I look 26. Some say, 28. So, Bond at 50 might only look 40 and still be pretty fit. Still, he drinks and smokes a lot though so it's more difficult to believe. It's harder to believe Bond did the things he did in Fleming's books in his early 40's when he drunk and smoked as much as he did. Moore always looked at least 10 years younger than he was when he did the Bond flicks though and he smoked cigars regularly back then. Don't know how fit he was though. I don't think he did much of his own stunts like Craig and Cruise do.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Bounine wrote:
    Anyway, I don't actually feel like 45 years is that old anymore when you look at people like Daniel Craig and Tom Cruise
    Total agreement, 50 is the new 40.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    At this point in time I think I should surgest that IFP ask Michael Dobbs to to pick up his pen and give us a great Bond book what does the thread think.
  • Mrcoggins wrote:
    At this point in time I think I should surgest that IFP ask Michael Dobbs to to pick up his pen and give us a great Bond book what does the thread think.

    Now that my friend is a very interesting idea from left field - quite inspired!

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Villiers53 wrote:
    Mrcoggins wrote:
    At this point in time I think I should surgest that IFP ask Michael Dobbs to to pick up his pen and give us a great Bond book what does the thread think.

    Now that my friend is a very interesting idea from left field - quite inspired!

    I agree! He knows the Cold War history, but does he know Bond? It would be interesting to see...

  • edited October 2013 Posts: 2,599
    I've always been keen on Lee Child but unfortunately he doesn't want to do it. Here's why: (he seems to think that it should be a modern day Bond though)


    "In April of last year a representative for author Lee Child informed me (via The Young Bond Dossier) that he was not the 2008 Centenary novelist. Now K1Bond007.com has uncovered an interview in which Child himself talks about his close call with Bond fame and explains exactly why he passed...twice!

    “Twice over the period of five years they’ve asked me to write the series, no regrets really because I think it is a thankless task in terms of first financial remuneration, as the terms were more favourable to the Ian Fleming estate than to me, and secondly there is the technical and cultural aspect. I see this as an impossible job as it’s now 2007, around 50 years on from the world that James Bond first appeared in. The world has changed, and one of the reasons the world has changed is because of James Bond, this country has altered its cultural frame of reference because of things like James Bond, so any follow-up fifty years later would be somewhat self-referential, and reading the book would be like watching an ABBA tribute band – i.e. what’s the point?”"



    Interesting what he says about IFP and how they would have got more money than him. Hmmm...
  • Posts: 2,599
    Mrcoggins wrote:
    At this point in time I think I should surgest that IFP ask Michael Dobbs to to pick up his pen and give us a great Bond book what does the thread think.

    If he can commit to at least four books then hire him! I'm not happy at all regarding having one author per book. No one has a chance to learn and improve on what they've written. It does seem like more of a money making venture to me.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    With new Young Bond from 2014 to, we assume, 2017, does that mean no new adult book until 2018 at the earliest?

    That's another five year wait, but hey, there seems little hope for these novels at the moment anyway.
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 2,599
    I think they should be considering having a young Bond author like Higson or Cole, presuming the latter does a good job, to take over the reigns of the adult Bond and commit to at least another four, once they've written their young Bond books.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Samuel001 wrote:
    That's another five year wait, but hey, there seems little hope for these novels at the moment anyway.
    Y'know, this novel business is a bunch of BS anyway. I have to wait SEVEN months for a paperback of SOLO, a novel with less than great reviews??

    Any young (or not-so-young), talented & hungry writer could pump out a good novel every six months or so. Most any one of us here could choose a writer, hell I bet one or two of us could even write them ourselves.

    Whatever. I'm reading DMC now, then I have a number of Gardner books to plough through... a bunch of McCoy Indy novels and assorted science fictions... I can certainly wait.
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 2,599
    Samuel001 wrote:
    With new Young Bond from 2014 to, we assume, 2017, does that mean no new adult book until 2018 at the earliest?

    That's another five year wait, but hey, there seems little hope for these novels at the moment anyway.

    You didn't like SOLO? I thought it was good but not fantastic. Certainly enjoyable. Anyway, that still leaves 2 out of 3 of the "celebrity" written books that are pretty disappointing.

    I think that either they should find another author or Charlie Higson (this would be great) to write at least 4 adult books or wait until Cole finishes his young Bond books then get him to write them on the condition he does a good job with young Bond of course.

  • edited October 2013 Posts: 2,599
    chrisisall wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    That's another five year wait, but hey, there seems little hope for these novels at the moment anyway.
    Y'know, this novel business is a bunch of BS anyway. I have to wait SEVEN months for a paperback of SOLO, a novel with less than great reviews??

    Any young (or not-so-young), talented & hungry writer could pump out a good novel every six months or so. Most any one of us here could choose a writer, hell I bet one or two of us could even write them ourselves.

    Whatever. I'm reading DMC now, then I have a number of Gardner books to plough through... a bunch of McCoy Indy novels and assorted science fictions... I can certainly wait.

    Let us know what you think of DMC. I'm thinking about reading it again as I don't remember everything. I keep thinking that maybe I was too hard on it the first time for some reason.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Bounine wrote:
    You didn't like SOLO? I thought it was good but not fantastic. Certainly enjoyable. Anyway, that still leaves 2 out of 3 of the "celebrity" written books that are pretty disappointing.

    It was alright but it's still not a good track record going forwards. This 'one at a time' way of writing books doesn't work - and still won't if they do it again in five years.
  • Posts: 2,599
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Bounine wrote:
    You didn't like SOLO? I thought it was good but not fantastic. Certainly enjoyable. Anyway, that still leaves 2 out of 3 of the "celebrity" written books that are pretty disappointing.

    It was alright but it's still not a good track record going forwards. This 'one at a time' way of writing books doesn't work - and still won't if they do it again in five years.

    Yeah, I agree.

  • edited October 2013 Posts: 267
    It interests me that contributors don't compare the 'Bond Celebrity Trilogy Disaster' with the fantastic job that Anthony Horowitz did for the Holmes estate with 'House Of Silk' in 2011.
    For me, Horowitz has proven that you can take an iconic literary character, remain completely faithful to the era and style and produce something worthy of the creator.
    'House Of Silk' was a resounding critical and commercial success and was viewed by many Holmes fans as being up there with Conan Doyle's very best.
    Why can't we have the same for Bond?
    Simply because it requires an inspired choice on behalf of the owners and the Holmes estate got it absolutely right and ignored the fact that some of Horowitz's major successes had been with children's books.
    Bizarrely, IFP did it with the side projects (Moneypenny Diaries and Young Bond) but seem to be completely lobotomised when it comes to the main piece.
    There are often good suggestions in these threads but I do think that when the dust has settled around the 'SOLO' debacle, even IFP will realise that only Higson can save them!
    One thing that may have contributed to the appalling work of the trilogy triumphant could have been the financial split between IFP and the authors. If the owners have been too greedy it may explain why the trilogy was so dashed off and poorly edited.
    In any event, we need Higson now. We can't have another disaster and I suspect his fee is rising by the day. It bloody well should be if he is to get them out of this mess!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I need to read House of Silk. It'll never compete with the almighty Doyle (as no writer does, really), but I would love to give it a try sometime given my obvious Holmesian obsessions.
  • Posts: 267
    I need to read House of Silk. It'll never compete with the almighty Doyle (as no writer does, really), but I would love to give it a try sometime given my obvious Holmesian obsessions.

    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, stop what you are doing immediately and by fair means or foul get 'House Of Silk'.
    Within minutes of opening this treasure, Watson will have you rattling along in that Hansom cab looking forward to rendezvousing with those Baker Street irregulars — you'll enjoy every page. Horowitz never puts a foot wrong. If only we could say the same about those clowns that brought us the 'Bond Celebrity Trilogy Disaster'!
    Regarding comparisons between Horowitz and Doyle - hold that thought — there is no need to have to eat words unnecessarily. Frankly he did a better job with Holmes than Amis did with Bond and that's saying something.
  • As highlighted in the news section of this very site, SOLO is plummeting out of the charts and evidently Random House are worried!
    Hopefully heads will roll starting at IFP. They've fead us three absolute stinkers on the trot and are on track to ruin one of the greatest literary franchises of all time - what did they expect?
    I think the patience of the loyal fan is absolutely exhausted. If IFP had just had the wisdom, after DMC, to hold a round table with some of the voices on this great site they wouldn't be in this mess!
  • Posts: 267
    Villiers53 wrote:
    As highlighted in the news section of this very site, SOLO is plummeting out of the charts and evidently Random House are worried!
    Hopefully heads will roll starting at IFP. They've fead us three absolute stinkers on the trot and are on track to ruin one of the greatest literary franchises of all time - what did they expect?
    I think the patience of the loyal fan is absolutely exhausted. If IFP had just had the wisdom, after DMC, to hold a round table with some of the voices on this great site they wouldn't be in this mess!

    Too true old boy but do you seriously think that the IFP arrogance knows any boundaries? There are only two pieces in SOLO that read well. The opening and the fire fight in Africa. Boyd clearly knows this as they are the only passages that he reads in public. Furthermore he announced that he was only prepared to talk the book up for one month! Frankly I think they all know they've given birth to an absolute pup. Unfortunately it doesn't stop them pocketing our wonga and having a giraffe at our expense - sad but true?
  • Posts: 7,653
    AT our expense???

    There are a lot of readers when I look at the reviews that are satisfied with the book that Boyd delivered. And NO James Bond novel was ever going to be received without any critism, so I expect that IFP will not read too much into that.
    At the end of the day it will be the world wide sales that will tell them really how well the book is liked and if any further book is viable at all.
    I must admit that there are currently books being released that I rate much better, The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt or even Doctor Sleep by Stephen King to name a few.
    If JC & IFP did something wrong was the poor marketing toward its release and the date of release they picked, but that can only be done better next time.

    As a fan I will undoubtely buy the next continuation book as well, whoever it will be. It is no such much a matter of expense as a matter of completing the collection. Hence having all three of them in HC.
  • Posts: 267
    SaintMark wrote:
    AT our expense???

    There are a lot of readers when I look at the reviews that are satisfied with the book that Boyd delivered. And NO James Bond novel was ever going to be received without any critism, so I expect that IFP will not read too much into that.
    At the end of the day it will be the world wide sales that will tell them really how well the book is liked and if any further book is viable at all.
    I must admit that there are currently books being released that I rate much better, The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt or even Doctor Sleep by Stephen King to name a few.
    If JC & IFP did something wrong was the poor marketing toward its release and the date of release they picked, but that can only be done better next time.

    As a fan I will undoubtely buy the next continuation book as well, whoever it will be. It is no such much a matter of expense as a matter of completing the collection. Hence having all three of them in HC.

    @SaintMark, I don't know if you've read this turkey or not and the opinion I express is mine not yours. That said, you make an interesting point regarding other recent releases being of a much higher quality and this is probably the big change since the time of Fleming. Back in the day, modern thrillers were not considered to be serious literature (exception; Graham Greene's entertainments) and Bond was pushing the boundaries, in every dimension including the quality of his writing. Since then the progress has continued and many consider the higher echelon of thriller writing to be the equal of any other literary form. IFP have an obligation to ensure that Bond is competitive in today's arena and they haven't. It's that simple!

  • Posts: 7,653
    @bentley I was one of teh first to put up some sort of review of Solo, so I do think I have read the book.
    As for raising the standard of modern day thriller writing with Deaver they had the man to do it and wile the thriller aspect of his tale was good, it felt so little as a 007 book for me that is. That said I would not mind seeing a 2nd book by Deaver continueing from his 1st novel. Because I think he is an excellent thriller writer, While Boyd or Faulks are more into the literary thriller genre something 007 would never been considered as.
  • Not read Solo yet, it's reserved from the library, that's how good I reckon it is and even I'm regretting the 50p order cost. Thing is, is there any saucy guilty pleasure stuff to be had in it, anything you fantasise about? I'd guess not. The Fleming books, as stated, were not said to be literature, they were stuff you'd read when you shouldn't, a bit of soft porn and sadism, fairytales mixed with military know-how and travel journalism. But Boyd's novel seems more like an academic exercise, you know, get all the brand names right, research it, piece it together that way, plus a bit of enlightenment for Bond regarding African politics. It doesn't feel like a guilty pleasure.
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 2,599
    I don't think that one should be too hard on IFP. I would have thought that I was on to a winner too having made the choice to use famous, successful authors to write Bond. Now that they have tried it and have seen that it has been unsuccessful, means that they should move on to plan B. Maybe the harsh criticising can commence if they choose yet another fourth celebrity writer. The first two were bad, the 3rd is good in my personal opinion (not fantastic however) but more because it's a great character study that I enjoy with some interesting situations thrown in. DMC received less than favourable reviews and they should be looking at this, not sales as their promotion was extensive and the masses were interested about reading about an adult Bond again after such a long absence. CB did well sales wise but promotion was more extensive than SOLO. IFP however, have to examine the fact that the James Bond in Deaver's book is a mere shadow of his former self. What this amounts to is that both these books have failed in terms of quality Bond literature. Currently we have poor sales for SOLO which obviously should be telling them something - there is no real plot. Some of this however can certainly be attributed to lack of marketing earlier on. A fourth one off book would be a mistake now that they've seen what has happened with the last three. Two may have been too little but three is a suitable amount. This gives them enough evidence now to be able to make an informed decision and change their game plan. Personally, I'd hire an established but non celebrity writer who can write at least 5 books and who is without their own strict writing framework. Someone who can conform more to the style of how a Bond book should be written. I'd probably hold off until either Higson is available or after we see what Cole can do. Children's authors could be the way to go for reasons I've expressed previously.
  • Posts: 267
    Bounine wrote:
    I don't think that one can be too hard on IFP.

    Too hard on IFP? I don't think it's possible to be hard enough!
    Remember, IFP have done absolutely nothing to create Bond - that was Ian Fleming - they are simply payed up members of the lucky sperm club that are milking the cow.
    As a Bond consumer since 1962, I feel that IFP have sold me a complete load of balderdash when it comes to adult Bond. I feel duped by this catastrophic 'Celebrity Trilogy Disaster'
Sign In or Register to comment.