If Die Another Day had featured Wai Lin again instead of Jinx -OR- could it HAVE been fixed at all?

2

Comments

  • BAIN123 wrote:
    Errrmm...get rid of Mr Kil too. Worst character ever!!!

    Agreed. Terrible character. Poorly written. Atrociously acted.
  • Posts: 15,125
    chrisisall wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    It certainly wouldn't have saved the film. It may have made it less awful, but worst case scenario it would have turned Wai Lin into a joke.
    I disagree; DAD didn't turn Bond into a joke, it just surrounded him with questionable moments. I believe Wai Lin would have survived intact as well.
    And I think if she were in it we'd be bandying about whether the film was a little or a lot better than DAF...

    Oh believe me, it was a spoof of a worst kind than DAF, although unlike DAF it did not try to be a spoof, which makes it worse IMO. But Wai Lin would not have salvaged anything. I agree with Saunders that she is not that great of a Bond girl and belongs almost to another genre. But she is way superior to Jinx, I will gladly give you this. And maybe this is why we are lucky she didn't show up in DAD. if anything, she would have made it worse, as what was good about her character would have been turned into mince meat by the stupid plot and the bad direction. Imagine her in the last fight against Miranda Frost. Jinx was unbelievable as a superspy, she looked like a supermodel. But because of this, it kind of make sense that she had difficulties getting the upper hand against an Olympic champion. Wai Lin, as an expert martial artist, would have logically swiftly got the better of Frost, unless the plot required her to be evenly match, and this would have seriously hurted her character.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Errrmm...get rid of Mr Kil too. Worst character ever!!!

    Agreed. Terrible character. Poorly written. Atrociously acted.
    What the Hell did they pay him for?!

    :))
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Having Wai Lin in it would've been nice, but she wouldn't have come into play as much as she did in TND. I don't care for Jinx in the slightest, but switching her out with Wai Lin would've fixed one of the many problems in the film.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Having Wai Lin in it would've been nice, but she wouldn't have come into play as much as she did in TND. I don't care for Jinx in the slightest, but switching her out with Wai Lin would've fixed one of the many problems in the film.

    It would not have, it would have hurt a previously good, or at least okay, character.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Ludovico, but it would've been one less complaint, would it not? People complain about how terrible Jinx is, so replacing her would fix just that. It wouldn't make the film leagues better and it may hurt the character, but she's better than Jinx.
  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    On reflection, the only part of DAD I do like is when Jinx in her orange bikini walks out of the sea in slo-mo, take that away from me and I may as well throw the DVD away!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    saunders wrote:
    On reflection, the only part of DAD I do like is when Jinx in her orange bikini walks out of the sea in slo-mo, take that away from me and I may as well throw the DVD away!

    People may hate Jinx, but it's hard to argue how incredibly good looking she is when she comes out of the water.
  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    Creasy47 wrote:
    saunders wrote:
    On reflection, the only part of DAD I do like is when Jinx in her orange bikini walks out of the sea in slo-mo, take that away from me and I may as well throw the DVD away!

    People may hate Jinx, but it's hard to argue how incredibly good looking she is when she comes out of the water.

    The only other woman I've seen who can work her curves as effectively was Jessica Rabbit.

  • edited September 2013 Posts: 11,189
    That scene is a bit Michael Bay-ish in my view. I'd say the best bit of DAD is the (Jinx-less) PTS. Saw it again not long ago, its pretty good.

    I have to say though I do find Brosnan's slimyness in that beach scene funny. He compensates for the atrocious Halle. I'll give her a mouthful - of my fist*

    *I wouldn't normally encourage violence towards women but with her I'll make an exception.
  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    BAIN123 wrote:
    That scene is a bit Michael Bay-ish in my view. I'd say the best bit of DAD is the (Jinx-less PTS). Saw it again not long ago, its pretty good.

    I hate the PTS, I live fairly near Aldershot where it was filmed and I've never thought Hampshire resembles North Korea in the slightest, also dislike Bond's unlimited ammo machine pistol and the pre QOS clumsy editing, it always looks like it's Bond's hovercraft that crashes and explodes when the concrete barrier comes down at the start of the chase.
    Vic Armstrong promised so much with this hovercraft chase comparing it to a classic western stagecoach scenario, but it's just a big let down which is a shame because for all his faults, Brosnan's other PTS have all been par excellence.

  • Posts: 11,189
    I quite like it actually, particularly before the chase when Bond gets exposed. True its not GREAT but I think it offers a compelling set up. You must live fairly near me @saunders. I'm about 30-40 mins away from Aldershot myself.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited September 2013 Posts: 16,351
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Errrmm...get rid of Mr Kil too. Worst character ever!!!

    Agreed. Terrible character. Poorly written. Atrociously acted.

    Not really. He just had one line. "I'm Mr. Kil." He looked unique and put up quite a fight with Brosnan, and also had a cool death. I'll take Mr. Kil over Elvis. A balding twig who Bond Brosnan or Craig could snap in half. Kil at least looked Threatening and cool. Can't say the same about Elvis.

    Sorry but I call BS on Kil being the worst character ever. There have been way more characters in the Bond series who deserve to be called "Worst Character Ever."

    Character who I see worse than Mr. Kil.
    Mary Goodnight.
    JW Pepper.
    Lupe.
    Dr. Metz.
    Cai...Cai...Cairo guy.
    Charles Grey's Blofeld.
    Elvis
    Varity
    Gustav Graves
    Those stock Gangsters from Goldfinger
    and So on.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    I loved Professor Doctor Metz, you irritating man!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    chrisisall wrote:
    I loved Professor Doctor Metz, you irritating man!

    He's campy but he just irritates me with his negative behavior. He never saw Bond once and was just plain mean to him the whole time for no reason.
  • edited September 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Murdock wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Errrmm...get rid of Mr Kil too. Worst character ever!!!

    Agreed. Terrible character. Poorly written. Atrociously acted.

    Not really. He just had one line. "I'm Mr. Kil." He looked unique and put up quite a fight with Brosnan, and also had a cool death. I'll take Mr. Kil over Elvis. A balding twig who Bond Brosnan or Craig could snap in half. Kil at least looked Threatening and cool. Can't say the same about Elvis.

    Sorry but I call BS on Kil being the worst character ever. There have been way more characters in the Bond series who deserve to be called "Worst Character Ever."

    Character who I see worse than Mr. Kil.
    Mary Goodnight.
    JW Pepper.
    Lupe.
    Dr. Metz.
    Cai...Cai...Cairo guy.
    Charles Grey's Blofeld.
    Elvis
    Varity
    Gustav Graves
    Those stock Gangsters from Goldfinger
    and So on.

    Hmm...I still think Kil is pretty atrocious. I mean common...Mr Kil? The writers just weren't even trying.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Errrmm...get rid of Mr Kil too. Worst character ever!!!

    Agreed. Terrible character. Poorly written. Atrociously acted.

    Not really. He just had one line. "I'm Mr. Kil." He looked unique and put up quite a fight with Brosnan, and also had a cool death. I'll take Mr. Kil over Elvis. A balding twig who Bond Brosnan or Craig could snap in half. Kil at least looked Threatening and cool. Can't say the same about Elvis.

    Sorry but I call BS on Kil being the worst character ever. There have been way more characters in the Bond series who deserve to be called "Worst Character Ever."

    Character who I see worse than Mr. Kil.
    Mary Goodnight.
    JW Pepper.
    Lupe.
    Dr. Metz.
    Cai...Cai...Cairo guy.
    Charles Grey's Blofeld.
    Elvis
    Varity
    Gustav Graves
    Those stock Gangsters from Goldfinger
    and So on.

    Hmm...maybe I should change that to worst NAME ever!!

    Fair enough. It is there just to give Bond a cheesy one liner. Mr. Killian would be much cooler.
  • Murdock wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Errrmm...get rid of Mr Kil too. Worst character ever!!!

    Agreed. Terrible character. Poorly written. Atrociously acted.

    Not really. He just had one line. "I'm Mr. Kil." He looked unique and put up quite a fight with Brosnan, and also had a cool death. I'll take Mr. Kil over Elvis. A balding twig who Bond Brosnan or Craig could snap in half. Kil at least looked Threatening and cool. Can't say the same about Elvis.

    Actually he didn't have one line. When prompted by Zao to kill Jinx and is offered a gun he scoffs "No, I use laser". Terrible delivery. Granted the scriptwriting was non-existent but his character only served the purpose of dying an amusing death.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Murdock wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Errrmm...get rid of Mr Kil too. Worst character ever!!!

    Agreed. Terrible character. Poorly written. Atrociously acted.

    Not really. He just had one line. "I'm Mr. Kil." He looked unique and put up quite a fight with Brosnan, and also had a cool death. I'll take Mr. Kil over Elvis. A balding twig who Bond Brosnan or Craig could snap in half. Kil at least looked Threatening and cool. Can't say the same about Elvis.

    Actually he didn't have one line. When prompted by Zao to kill Jinx and is offered a gun he scoffs "No, I use laser". Terrible delivery. Granted the scriptwriting was non-existent but his character only served the purpose of dying an amusing death.

    True I forgot that line but it's better than a lot of other lines throughout the Bond films. :p
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 533

    The bashing against Halle Berry continues on. There is nothing that will rile a James Bond fan more is the idea of a black woman as the leading Bond female character . . . especially since she gets to have sex with him.


    By the way, I think "TOMORROW NEVER DIES" was Brosnan's worst Bond movie. Pure Bond generic crap.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @DRush76, can't say I've seen a single bit of any complaint on this forum about us not liking Jinx because she's black. If anything, you conjuring that up just goes to show you're too ignorant to see the real reason we don't particularly care for her character, and it has nothing to do with Halle Berry or the color of her skin.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited October 2013 Posts: 16,351
    DRush76 wrote:
    The bashing against Halle Berry continues on. There is nothing that will rile a James Bond fan more is the idea of a black woman as the leading Bond female character . . . especially since she gets to have sex with him.


    By the way, I think "TOMORROW NEVER DIES" was Brosnan's worst Bond movie. Pure Bond generic crap.

    It's not about her race @DRush76, but the words that come out of her mouth. I'm all for Bond having a relationship with a Black woman. Berry is a fine actress in the right role, but her character was badly written and it's an insult to her and what could have been a great character. But they basically made her the "Sassy sidekick with 2000's catchphrases. "Yo Mama" and So on. Lines like that don't need to be in a Bond film.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Murdock, you're spot on. It has absolutely nothing to do with race, Bond can bed any beautiful woman he wants, in my opinion.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Murdock, you're spot on. It has absolutely nothing to do with race, Bond can bed any beautiful woman he wants, in my opinion.
    Agreed @Creasy47. Look at Rosie Carver, Mayday or Eve Moneypenny. (Sexual or Not, the Banter was very nice between Craig and Harris.) I enjoyed all three characters and there contribution to the Bond franchise. @DRush76, I suggest you read all the posts before making a blind statement accusing members of bashing Jinx because of her race.
  • Posts: 6,396
    @DRush76 What an incredibly crass and ignorant comment to make. I think @Murdock and @Creasy47 sum up my feelings on this matter too. All you have done is posted a comment designed to only cause provocation.
  • timdalton007timdalton007 North Alabama
    Posts: 155
    @Murdock hits the nail on the head. I'd argue that Berry's performance didn't do her any favors either but given the script she had to work from, I'm not sure how much blame can be put at her door.

    timdalton007
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited October 2013 Posts: 4,521
    It have been worse, because you expect more Wailin and we should happy that she not be in the movie for that to short cameo. You expect she go on the run with Bond and never kill that doctor. Or Jinx must have died/go a way and the movie end with Wailin.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Well it would have been an improvement over Jinx, but I doubt unless there were a new script written that it would have made much of a real difference beyond that fact.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Well it would have been an improvement over Jinx, but I doubt unless there were a new script written that it would have made much of a real difference beyond that fact.

    That's what we're talking about: an improvement. DAD wouldn't have skyrocketed from what some call "the worst piece of trash ever" to "Oscar-worthy material," but the film would've been improved by that.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Creasy47 wrote:
    That's what we're talking about: an improvement. DAD wouldn't have skyrocketed from what some call "the worst piece of trash ever" to "Oscar-worthy material," but the film would've been improved by that.

    Thank you sir!
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