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Now there's an actor, under different circumstances, I wish had been a Bond Villain. A respected career, flushed down the toilet.
To catch up:
Always found GE overrated from day 1. It gets a lot of goodwill from many, many fans it seems based on it being the first Bond they saw or discovered through the video game or whatever. I don't hate or dislike it, just find it a very mixed bag. Love the bungee jump, but the flying into the plane thing levels off the enthusiasm. They just didn't know when to leave well enough alone.
I've always considered the tank chase to be like an outtake from The Blues Brothers, destruction for destruction's sake. It's like the creators sat around in a story conference and asked what type of vehicle Bond hadn't been in and somebody suggested that and away they went.
Somebody compared LTK to being on par with Lethal Weapon and Die Hard and other actioners of the day, but if that is so then GE is the equivalent of the '90s Schwarzenegger era actioners, even taking a scenario of being trapped in the helicopter and escaping through the ejector seat being the same method Bruce Willis used in Die Hard II. And TND gets slammed by a lot because Bond uses a machine gun a lot, but he does so in GE numerous times also.
Somebody also mentioned Dalton had a lack of swagger. He had his own style of that, not in your face, more subtle: the way he knocks out the thug in the Barrelhead Bar or the cocky look he gives one of Sanchez's henchmen when being told it's very hard to keep up down there. One of Dalton's strengths is an expression on his face that communicates so much, not so much a physical gesture, that's the sign of a good actor. I suggest if somebody wants a fresh take on his films, just focus on Dalton and you'll discover a lot of what made him a special Bond.
+1 Bond in Fleming's books is more subtle when it comes to swagger. Dalton knew the right way to play him.
Unfortunately we'll never know. That third Dalton film would have been the moment of truth, either he would get a milestone hit like GF, TSWLM, and SF, or it would have underperformed more or less like LTK.
Craig does-- a hedonist and troubled soul mixed into one bag...
Yes, I kind of agree with this. Fleming's Bond also enjoyed life to the max - eating good food and drink, fast cars, etc. Nobody embodies this more than Connery, and secondly Moore. Like others have said, by Dalton's third film we may have seen a more rounded performance that could have brought this more to the surface.
Blimey, you are nothing if not persistent @Shardlake. You remind me a lot of dear old @Germanlady. Wherever I went on these threads, she was always there shouting and pointing from the sidelines constantly reminding me how sad and obsessive I was. There's something almost reassuring about it. Like an online guardian angel, mixed with a judgemental maiden aunt.
The funny thing though is that scrolling back through the thread for the last few pages all I can see is some rather good natured, sometimes heated, back and forth about the Bond films and actors. Whatever next!?
Dalton Fans: “Pshhh, not THAT good...”
Bond Fans: “But better than Broz right?”
Dalton Fans: “SOULLESS AND CORPORATE!”
Aside from that for me Dalton is the closest to Fleming bond and Craig is the closest to Cinematic Bond after Connery, if he is able to surpass Connery or not is debatable. Although i have to agree that Craig is by far best actor in the series even in his worst moments. Whenever i am in doubt i always look at their worst moments and see how each of them carries those scenes and i get my answer :)
Agree with all of this.
There's a plausible case to be made that TSWLM is actually the pinnacle of cinematic Bond.
Agreed, I can never say Craig didn't impress me for how much he put into those films.
Even Connery, though I may rank him as my favorite above Craig, was guilty of slacking in parts during his tenure, though for reasons I understood. Craig, like Moore, never seemed to slouch in the role. He always gave it his all, even when he had as thin material as he did in QOS he actually made something there. That's what makes me appreciate him most as Bond.
Although when i hear that we have to wait at least 5 years for next bond it gives me serious headache :(
I mean what the hell am i supposed to watch in the meantime doremon?
The silent majority!
I'm not a serial Fleming reader, and haven't read any of the books for a couple of years. The last one I read was Goldfinger, but I've also recently read Casino Royale and Dr No (in the last 2-3 years).
What struck me was how much of an old fashioned gentleman Bond was. Very respectful
to women (he used the term 'darling' quite a lot). Quite calm and level headed with a terrific sense of duty.
Now, I never got any of that from Bond in LTK. I could hear Moore's voice in my head on occassions, Connery on others. Never Dalton.
Like i say, this is just my observations. Haven't read YOLT or OHMSS (for example) for 20 years, so I can't give an expert opinion on this.
My question is, why do you see LTK as such a close representation of Fleming's Bond?
To be fair, we've all got empty lives for a few months now! :D Let's not throw stones in that glass house :)
Yeah I thought he was perfect casting in that: I loved the feel of that movie and could have happily taken a couple more of those, even if the plot panned out to be fairly usual ITV murder drama stuff. Shame it didn't happen.
The audience rather disagree with that though, clearly. We've seen what they prefer, and playing it as 'Fleming's Bond' or not (which is arguable) is kind of irrelevant.
He hasn't got the swagger: he looks nervous and shifty most of the time- ask yourself who seems more confident out of his and Craig's Bonds? Don't we all love the bits where Bond grabs a grape from the bowl of the room he's been searching, looks nonchalant as he strolls along a building edge etc.? The closest he gets is probably the "I report in an hour, better make that two" moment, and even then he's giving it intense and aggressive when perhaps Roger's approach (doubtless calmer and suave) would have been more... Bond.
I enjoy him, Daylights is probably my favourite Bond film, but I can see where he's lacking. He doesn't have his head out above the movie like the other Bonds do: he's lacking the charisma. DAD is huge and rubbish, but Brosnan is still the star of it: he's in charge.
I like this, yeah.
Dalton does get a couple of decent snob moments (the hamper one is probably the best, and he knows his opera, plus he savours a good martini like no other Bond) but you get the feeling from Craig's Bond that he's selfishly enjoying the finer things in a rather cruel way (including women), which is much more Fleming.
I guess that's fair. I'd say Connery should be up there, but as you mention 'worst moments' he's not always at 100% (YOLT being the obvious example), and Craig has never given less than his all.
Yeah it always made me sad to see Roger running himself down in interviews*: he may have had a fairly restricted skill set but he was damned good at what he did, and that was to be a hugely warm presence and a top movie star. When you look at something the scale of Moonraker or TSWLM, you can see you need a really big hunk of charisma to stay on top of all that, and even Connery hadn't been given movies that big to be the centre of. But he managed it, and he made it look easy (And I think you can see that when you watch Dalton's films: he's good but he's sort of slightly... absent in a way that Moore never is).
I certainly agree with your reading of TSWLM, by the way. When I'm watching it I often think "Is this actually the best Bond movie?". I think it might be.
*To be honest, I'm sure when he looked at his bank account he knew he was doing something right ;)
Amazing what time can do. Now, and especially since his death, his legacy has been revalued and everyone seems to remember him with misty eyed fondness.
@mtm I agree with you whole heartedly. It isn't easy to front a massive film like TSWLM and actually be noticed. Moore really did have big screen charisma to spare. It's a shame his greatest detractor was Roger himself with those self deprecating comments he loved so much.
A real star, on and off the screen
Went to see him live at one of those "In Conversation with..." events a year or so before his death and he was a truly fascinating character, though.
;)
This.
An absolute legend of a man and a great Bond. However he was partly responsible for taking the franchise in the wrong direction.
This is true.
As someone said on Twitter today: there can't be anything wrong with any of the Roger Moore James Bond films because they have Roger Moore as James Bond in them. :)
Having just watched them all again, I can definitely agree with this. Somewhere on the forum someone posted a gif of Bond and Melina in the chase with the Citroen, when Bond double takes and smiles at the pursuers. There's another part of the chase where Bond makes a quip and Melina visibly laughs along with him about it, and for me it just exemplifies the fun of the Moore era.