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The thing is, speaking of logic and stupidity, I was actually annoyed by how stupid that escape out of the window was in Bilbao! Why did he think that would work? It's a really half-hearted attempt at spectacle ('he's James Bond so obviously he jumps really high. That'll do') but if you're trying to make a vaguely realistic scene then don't have your main character tie a curtain cord around his waist and just presuming that he'll survive jumping several storeys that way. It's so dumb, and it's also so half-hearted. If you want to do something smaller and classier, don't have your main character do something so dumb. And if you want to do something big, think of something more impressive than jumping out of a window. I guess they tried to save it by making it a joke with the guy upstairs, but it's not all that funny.
Plus it features the world's ugliest table :)
I think TWINE actually has loads of good ideas in it and the story is pretty good, but it comes together to make a dull, unstylish Bond movie in my opinion. Which, funnily enough, brings us back on topic, because I'd say that Skyfall brings a real feel of classiness back to the Bond films. It's stylish and feels lush, where stuff like TWINE and DAD felt a bit cheap and thin.
This is true.
It is, I'm not sure why it's being painted as if I ever said all of these rankings are objective or that someone's opinion would bother me.
I thought the meaning behind your use of the word in the context of your post was pretty clear!
I personally won't ever understand someone being upset or angered by another person's ranking being different from their own. Different strokes for different folks.
Yeah I think one can approach these things with a bit of objectivity: for example I don't think it would hugely controversial to say that Connery is probably the best Bond (maybe Craig is up there), but I'd probably say that Roger is my favourite. One's a bit more of a personal, subjective ranking than the other, but they're both my opinion.
That's a fair choice, too (but damn, do I love that one a lot. It's maximum 80s cheese but there's always been something about it that I've really took to and enjoyed).
I love that GE and OHMSS top your ranking! GE is very high (if not the top) of my ranking as well, for very very subjective reasons of course. Skyfall is higher on my list, and Spectre is much higher! I can see all of it's shortcomings and missed opportunities, but for me there's so much in there that I love. YOLT would be much further down my ranking due to the crimes it commits against the masterful source material. TND and TLD would be higher on my ranking as well, otherwise, we have a lot in common with regards to our top pics!
EDIT: I just remembered I used the link from @MakeshiftPython's thread: https://sorta.app/q/1029 to make my ranking (it was the only way I could wrap my head around sorting all 24 films, without doing a marathon) and came up with the following:
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Casino Royale
GoldenEye
From Russia with Love
Skyfall
Quantum of Solace
Goldfinger
Dr. No
Licence to Kill
For Your Eyes Only
Spectre
The Spy Who Loved Me
The Living Daylights
Live and Let Die
Tomorrow Never Dies
The Man with the Golden Gun
Thunderball
Die Another Day
You Only Live Twice
Moonraker
The World Is Not Enough
A View to a Kill
Diamonds Are Forever
Octopussy
Which I think does a pretty good job of reflecting my opinions. I'd say I picked films using the algorithms based on 75% which film I'd want to watch right now, and 25% which film I "objectively" think is better.
EDIT: To steer this back on-topic: no.
I've gotta' agree with Creasy 47. The film starts out with this smaller-scale but effective escape that feels like it could've come out of a Connery-era film. But like Bond's escape, the film just rapidly goes down from there. Bond using his wits and resourcefulness to escape is just so much more refreshing than the gadget-laced chase with big explosions and stupid asides, which echoes my feelings the way you do about the Bilbao scene.
I still recall others discussing at the time of TWINE's release that being set in Bilbao made no sense other than to show off the then new Guggenheim there.
Agree with this. But due to TWINE's oh-so-boring and bland approach, it sits just below AVTAK in my informal rankings. I can sum up AVTAK's higher appeal in one word: Walken!
It's a race to the bottom between DAD and MR.
Just because it’s small scale doesn’t make it like a Connery film though. It looks horrible, the scene makes no sense (why does it suddenly turn dangerous?), the lines are bad and the escape is stupid. There’s no style or wit to it, unlike in a Connery film.
I think its a safe bet to say most fans would have the likes of DAD, TWINE, TND, AVTAK, etc. at the bottom of their list, and on the opposite end of the spectrum the likes of OHMSS, GF and FRWL would typically reside at the top end of the list.
I think this is pretty much a given these days. 60's Bond reigns supreme, and 90's Brozza Bond's are now seen as the turkeys of the franchise.
In due course we will see how well Craig's films stand the test of time, although I hazard a guess CR will remain a favourite. SF, I'm not so sure. It may date less favourably over time, and become roped into the first half of SP, which is already now been seen by many as a turkey. Had Mendes not committed to SP, then maybe SF would have fared better purely as a standalone film. NTTD could be the film that SF compares less favourably with, once the Craig era is consigned to the history books.
If NTTD is as strong as many think it will be, then I reckon Craig's reign will be looked back on as a great opener and a great finisher, but sagged in the middle, with Mendes shouldering most of the blame.
For me, too. With DAF very close to them.
I disagree. The Bilbao escape is stylish and deserves the Bond theme (of course only my opinion and it is fine if you hate it). Do I for example prefer it to the jetpack escape in TB? Definitely!
In the early weeks of COVID, I binge-watched PB's films, in sequence. Not once, but twice. For the longest time, I had rated the films in the same order as they came out, generally regarded GE as PB's best. I no longer think that.
After watching the films more closely, huddled together, I now think TWINE is his best. And I am shocked to find myself saying that, but across the board, it hits all the Bondian elements. Great villain. Great plotline, with a twist. And I was not as put off by Christmas Jones as I always had been. And the long PTS now seems more fitting.
I honestly see zero style in that, It doesn’t even look nice to my eye, but fair enough.
It's an interesting point in terms of good scenes in that film. I struggle to think of anything, and even DAD has a few memorable moments (stuff like his Hong Kong hotel arrival). I guess some would say Q's farewell, but to be honest I find that rather weird ('Never let them see you bleed'? Eh?)... maybe the bit where M sees Bond kill Electra?
Certainly, using any sort of evaluative criteria, DAF could be considered dreadful. But we all have guilty pleasures, and DAF is certainly mine. Unlike MR, which contains some serious moments and riveting Barry music to go with it (which undermines its tongue-in-cheek cheesiness), DAF makes no pretense of being anything but outlandish. There isn't a single trace of seriousness in this film...and for that, I love it.
I can completely understand your point. The only serious moment I can think of right now is the elevator fight but even there they decided to end it with a joke (Franks/Bonds?? fate). MR has a strange mixture between serious moments (Corinne's death, clown in the alley, exploding plane in the beginning to name a few) and even less serious moments than we see in DAF (Jaws and Dolly and many more). This is entertaining but doesn't fit altogether. On the other hand: I prefer Bond movies with the right balance between fun and tension and to come back to SF:
I would love it when the film would have a few more lighter moments like the lines of Kincade. But do I prefer the more serious tone of SF compared to the comedy tone of DAF? Of course I do.
Other question: Does the Scotland act make SF better or weaker? It's completely different to every other final confrontation with the main villain for sure.
I'm still wondering if it makes sense to travel alone to Skyfall (almost without any weaponry). However, the photography and the colours (especially while the house is burning) are absolutely outstanding and I love the action on and in the ice lake.
Unfortunately, the part in the church doesn't work for me. Silva is odd there and his death(apart from his great facial expression) is disappointing.
And who had tears in their eyes at the first watch of M's death? I didn't. It isn't as touching as it should be. The only moment ever touched me a lot was (and still is) the shower scene in CR. (Strange that I never had tears when Tracy died...)
I love DAF too. There is a creepy Hammer Horror feel throughout the movie, enhanced by the Barry score, making it unique in the franchise because of it.
There are a few dark or serious moments in it though - Plenty's death in the pool, Bond trapped in the coffin, the death of the old woman in Amsterdam, Shady's death, the elevator fight.
The PTS is also deemed too violent for ITV now when they are showing DAF. Connery strangling the woman with the bra and the knife throwing are now both removed on TV. I don't recall ITV cutting any other Bond film as much.
I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of MI6 members dislike DAF and grade it in the lower part of their own rankings, but that isn't how others see the movie outside of this 007 echo chamber. Just looking at a YouGov poll, DAF is the 3rd most popular Bond movie and 4th most famous. It's also described by fans as: Action-packed, Easy-to-follow, Family-friendly, Epic and Historical. Admittedly, it's most popular amongst Baby Boomers (65%), Generation X (42%) and Millennials (35%). If you want to know what the other Top 5 YouGov Bond movies are, it's Goldfinger at No. 1; Casino Royale at No. 2; GoldenEye at No. 4; TSWLM at No. 5. There was also a U.S. poll done not that long ago which still had DAF as the most popular 007 movie in America. Don't ask me to provide the link as I did so many, many posts and moons ago. It's buried away somewhere here in this forum.
Being a Baby Boomer myself, I rate this movie much higher than a lot of MI6 members do here. There's no point getting into a debate over its merits as the same dissenters will only amplify its faults while ignoring their own favourite Bond movie flaws to twist the knife in further. I think @jetsetwilly sums it up best.