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SKYFALL: Is this the best Bond film?

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  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    mtm wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Though I still like the pre-end title sequence where Bond and Tiffany head for Britain on a cruise ship, and where Wint and Kidd pose as room-service stewards. It's got to be said, it's infinitely better than DAD's Moneypenny wearing a pair of virtual reality simulation glasses!!

    I dunno, I actually laughed at that. And the cruise ship ending does look very studio-bound and cheap, although it is quite nice to have a little epilogue like that in one of these.
    I can still distinctly remember thinking: This is the final nail in Bond's coffin when DAD ended.
    mtm wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Though I still like the pre-end title sequence where Bond and Tiffany head for Britain on a cruise ship, and where Wint and Kidd pose as room-service stewards. It's got to be said, it's infinitely better than DAD's Moneypenny wearing a pair of virtual reality simulation glasses!!

    I dunno, I actually laughed at that. And the cruise ship ending does look very studio-bound and cheap, although it is quite nice to have a little epilogue like that in one of these.
    I can still distinctly remember thinking: This is the final nail in Bond's coffin when DAD ended.

    Bit of an overreaction! It was a gag and it made me laugh: it did its job.

    Mr Wint showing pleasure because Bond is putting something near his bum has never made me laugh, quite the opposite to be honest.
    Only a bit of an overreaction? I thought I was being rather restrained considering the entire movie was one giant trainwreck from start to finish. Fortunately Sony came to the rescue with their offer of Casino Royale to vanish the bitter aftertaste of DAD. I'm afraid the "it was a gag and it made me laugh" only holds up if you found it funny. I can't remember any adults laughing in the audience when I saw it in the theatre. There were definitely groans and mutterings of dissatisfaction at the film and its absurd ending.

    You do make a valid point about Bernard Lee in MR and his final scene being a disservice to this once popular amd beloved character, not that Lee could've done anything about making amends as he died shorty after production and was replaced by Geoffrey Keen. Though Cubby did have a Fleming story up his sleeve with FYEO to correct the misjudged slapstick course of MR afterward. Clearly CR was a one-off and if Barbara Broccoli makes the same mistake again with NTTD as she did with DAD, then they'll be no Fleming material or title to help bail her out a second time.

    I won't get into a puritanical debate about Mr Wint showing a perverse pleasure at a bomb being thrust between his legs, the same as I won't get drawn into a debate about Bond slapping Dink on the behind in GF with the line: "Man talk", or even Bond coercing Patricia Fearing into sex in the Shrublands sanatorium. I'll leave that for the modern-day puritans to chew over.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2020 Posts: 16,574
    bondsum wrote: »
    I'm afraid the "it was a gag and it made me laugh" only holds up if you found it funny.

    Well, obviously. I wouldn't have said it otherwise.
    bondsum wrote: »
    I can't remember any adults laughing in the audience when I saw it in the theatre. There were definitely groans and mutterings of dissatisfaction at the film and its absurd ending.

    Yes of course there were, everybody in the world agreed with you, I'm sure ;)
    bondsum wrote: »
    You do make a valid point about Bernard Lee in MR and his final scene being a disservice to this once popular amd beloved character, not that Lee could've done anything about making amends as he died shorty after production and was replaced by Geoffrey Keen.

    No he wasn't replaced by Keen, and it wasn't really a disservice to his character, that's just what his character did. I think if you get too worried about certain things not being treated with the reverence they deserve when you're watching a fun movie about a handsome superspy battling a guy with metal teeth in space, then you're maybe not approaching these with a mindset that will allow you to enjoy them. They're big silly films, just enjoy them. You're getting into that fan mindset like you see Star Wars fans getting into where they think it must all be treated incredibly seriously and respectfully, losing sight of exactly what the big fun adventure film is actually supposed to be doing.
    bondsum wrote: »
    I won't get into a puritanical debate about Mr Wint showing a perverse pleasure at a bomb being thrust between his legs, the same as I won't get drawn into a debate about Bond slapping Dink on the behind in GF with the line: "Man talk", or even Bond coercing Patricia Fearing into sex in the Shrublands sanatorium. I'll leave that for the modern-day puritans to chew over.

    It's nothing to do with puritanical thinking, I think you've used the wrong term there.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Sorry Roadphill,
    Made that look like it was your opinion there!

    No problem.
    I'm in a mixed camp. I think GE was the perfect film for the time. I was ready for a new Bond film, and I think it perfectly delivered on blending classic elements with one or two modern (at the time) ones.

    Skyfall, is for me, a touch overrated.
    I think the first half is superb, one of the best in the series. When we leave Silva's island it drops off a cliff.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    ( Looks at the last two pages of a Skyfall thread,finds that most of the discussion is about DAF,DAD,and GE ).
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    ( Looks at the last two pages of a Skyfall thread,finds that most of the discussion is about DAF,DAD,and GE ).

    Getting back on thread, the answer is a firm NO. Skyfall is definitely not the best Bond film. Far from it.

    The mere suggestion that anyone thinks it could be is slightly offensive to all the early Connery films, and OHMSS, which are the real benchmark to the franchise.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2020 Posts: 16,574
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    ( Looks at the last two pages of a Skyfall thread,finds that most of the discussion is about DAF,DAD,and GE ).

    Getting back on thread, the answer is a firm NO. Skyfall is definitely not the best Bond film. Far from it.

    The mere suggestion that anyone thinks it could be is slightly offensive to all the early Connery films, and OHMSS, which are the real benchmark to the franchise.

    Or they just have different opinions to you. Might be possible?

    You're allowed to find it offensive, but it's not an offence against the old films, no. Also they're only films, people can like what they want without being told they're being offensive for doing so. It's just too much.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    ( Looks at the last two pages of a Skyfall thread,finds that most of the discussion is about DAF,DAD,and GE ).

    I think that's a given when you're 38 pages in and everyone has made their opinions clear and repeated.

    Also, I wouldn't agree with sentiments that it's somehow "offensive" to the early Connery films, whatever that means, even if I don't like the movie.
  • jobojobo
    edited November 2020 Posts: 7,507
    I think Skyfall is a Bond classic just as the golden age Connery films are classics. How about that for offensive ;)) ;) :P
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    SF is easily better than OHMSS, because it doesn’t have a block of wood like Lazenby.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2020 Posts: 7,588
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    SF is easily better than OHMSS, because it doesn’t have a block of wood like Lazenby.

    Of course this is where subjectivity and differing opinions come in, and I really like Skyfall, but I'd still rate OHMSS higher. Lazenby, while very inexperienced, delivered the emotional stuff in a very effective way, IMO.

    Skyfall may be the best Bond film from a pure cinematography standpoint. And it has, IMO, the best scene in the franchise. But I don't think it's the best Bond film.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    SF is easily better than OHMSS, because it doesn’t have a block of wood like Lazenby.

    Of course this is where subjectivity and differing opinions come in, and I really like Skyfall, but I'd still rate OHMSS higher. Lazenby, while very inexperienced, delivered the emotional stuff in a very effective way, IMO.

    Skyfall may be the best Bond film from a pure cinematography standpoint. And it has, IMO, the best scene in the franchise. But I don't think it's the best Bond film.

    Which scene is that?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2020 Posts: 7,588
    Everything from "Tells a story, doesn't it?" to the helicopters on the dead island. For me it incapsulates all that is Bond in a single scene; there's Bond in a tuxedo in a desolate environment, a decadent villain giving his monologue with his 50 year old scotch, a beautiful woman, danger and death, Bond in a desperate situation getting the job done ruthlessly and efficiently, a Q gadget (radio, lol) and the Bond theme. To me it is it's own little Bond film within a film. The only thing that would have made it better for me is the PPK rather than the P99 or whatever it was Bond was using.
    I suppose there are better scenes out there in Bond films, but maybe for me this scene just epitomizes the Bond films so well. A perfect insertion in a 50th anniversary tribute film.
    Of course this is all just my opinion and I'm sure many out there will scoff at it. Perhaps I should have said "my favourite" rather than "the best".
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    Everything from "Tells a story, doesn't it?" to the helicopters on the dead island. For me it incapsulates all that is Bond in a single scene; there's Bond in a tuxedo in a desolate environment, a decadent villain giving his monologue with his 50 year old scotch, a beautiful woman, danger and death, Bond in a desperate situation getting the job done ruthlessly and efficiently, a Q gadget (radio, lol) and the Bond theme. To me it is it's own little Bond film within a film. The only thing that would have made it better for me is the PPK rather than the P99 or whatever it was Bond was using.
    I suppose there are better scenes out there in Bond films, but maybe for me this scene just epitomizes the Bond films so well. A perfect insertion in a 50th anniversary tribute film.
    Of course this is all just my opinion and I'm sure many out there will scoff at it. Perhaps I should have said "my favourite" rather than "the best".

    It is a great scene no doubt! And there are many of them in Skyfall.

    The sequence where Bond follows Patrice into the skyscraper ending with the fight and mysterious shots of Severine is another highlight for me
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,588
    jobo wrote: »
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    Everything from "Tells a story, doesn't it?" to the helicopters on the dead island. For me it incapsulates all that is Bond in a single scene; there's Bond in a tuxedo in a desolate environment, a decadent villain giving his monologue with his 50 year old scotch, a beautiful woman, danger and death, Bond in a desperate situation getting the job done ruthlessly and efficiently, a Q gadget (radio, lol) and the Bond theme. To me it is it's own little Bond film within a film. The only thing that would have made it better for me is the PPK rather than the P99 or whatever it was Bond was using.
    I suppose there are better scenes out there in Bond films, but maybe for me this scene just epitomizes the Bond films so well. A perfect insertion in a 50th anniversary tribute film.
    Of course this is all just my opinion and I'm sure many out there will scoff at it. Perhaps I should have said "my favourite" rather than "the best".

    It is a great scene no doubt! And there are many of them in Skyfall.

    The sequence where Bond follows Patrice into the skyscraper ending with the fight and mysterious shots of Severine is another highlight for me

    Absolutely, beautiful scene.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited November 2020 Posts: 5,970
    One thing that always bothered me about reviews is how people slated Bond for taking M to a place where he has no weapons when surely the idea is that he went there thinking the weapons were still there, and unfortunately, they'd been sold. That's why he asked Kincade for them in the first place.

    And a sidenote, I really wish we could've seen the deleted sequence where Severine delivers the briefcase to Patrice at the airport. I can understand why they cut it from the final film, but a deleted scene on the DVD would've been cool.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,588
    Yes, and M expressly wanted to go where no one else would be, so no more people would be put in danger through trying to protect her. Never had a problem with the set up at the end, it never took me out of the story. And the house, and the Skyfall reveal, were all fantastic. Putting the DB5's guns to use as a trap was great as well.
  • jobojobo
    edited November 2020 Posts: 7,507
    Agreed. Another thing that really annoys me is the "Home Alone comparison". Like if Home Alone has a monopoly on setting out traps?? :-?? :-? 8-|
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,579
    jobo wrote: »
    Agreed. Another thing that really annoys me is the "Home Alone comparison". Like if Home Alone has a monopoly on setting out traps?? :-?? :-? 8-|

    "Home Alone comparison" :))
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    007InAction wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Agreed. Another thing that really annoys me is the "Home Alone comparison". Like if Home Alone has a monopoly on setting out traps?? :-?? :-? 8-|

    "Home Alone comparison" :))

    Your point is?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited November 2020 Posts: 41,009
    jobo wrote: »
    Agreed. Another thing that really annoys me is the "Home Alone comparison". Like if Home Alone has a monopoly on setting out traps?? :-?? :-? 8-|

    Funny, for all of the issues I have with the film, that's one that never bothered me. I enjoy seeing them improvise and adapt, which actually pans out in their favor quite remarkably. Protecting M would've been a success if Bond had merely told her to hit the lights when the time came and hide (he should've known Silva would want to grandstand and kill her on his own. Making her actually fight wasn't the best idea.)
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,579
    jobo wrote: »
    007InAction wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Agreed. Another thing that really annoys me is the "Home Alone comparison". Like if Home Alone has a monopoly on setting out traps?? :-?? :-? 8-|

    "Home Alone comparison" :))

    Your point is?

    It's a funny comparison.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,588
    I just watched TMWTGG (my latest digital purchase). I had an odd craving to watch/own it. In any case, SF certainly seems pull some ideas from it, most notably the Macau casino and the villain's mistress.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2020 Posts: 7,588
    The Macau stuff is all great, I don't even mind the Komodo Dragon business. To me the pointing and the obvious fear of the dragons is some of the levity that the Craig era could have used more of, IMO. Oddly I don't love the scene where Bond is boating up to the entrance of the casino; never thought he looked that great in that scene.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,574
    Denbigh wrote: »
    One thing that always bothered me about reviews is how people slated Bond for taking M to a place where he has no weapons when surely the idea is that he went there thinking the weapons were still there, and unfortunately, they'd been sold. That's why he asked Kincade for them in the first place.

    I like to think it's always been Bond's zombie apocalypse plan :D
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    Posts: 628
    The HOME ALONE comparisons get thrown around by people who have never heard of STRAW DOGS. Of course, the irony is that Purvis & Wade admitted to ripping off one of John Buchan's novels.

    I've warmed somewhat to the third act at Skyfall. The plotting is dumber than a box of rocks, but at least it's visually spectacular.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited November 2020 Posts: 5,970
    I do think they should've added another dialogue scene between Severine and Bond on the boat. It also could've served to have lessened the controversy of the shower scene, if they just had a small scene where Bond has managed to get onto the boat, and they share a drink, where Severine can convince us as the audience that she does indeed want to sleep with Bond - obviously in a subtle way - as well as offering more time to develop her character before the inevitable.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,588
    Yeah I wouldn't have minded that at all.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited November 2020 Posts: 4,489
    Severine deserved much more screen time. I was a bit sad that her scene at the airport was cut. Am I the only one who doesn't like her look in the casino? I mean she is a very beautiful woman but she looks much more attractive in Shanghai (where we unfortunately see only short glimpses of her beauty) than in Macau.

    (I could say the same about Fields in QoA. She deserved more screen time and she looks more attractive in other films.)
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I do think they should've added another dialogue scene between Severine and Bond on the boat. It also could've served to have lessened the controversy of the shower scene, if they just had a small scene where Bond has managed to get onto the boat, and they share a drink, where Severine can convince us as the audience that she does indeed want to sleep with Bond - obviously in a subtle way - as well as offering more time to develop her character before the inevitable.

    I dont like Skyfall but iv never understood the '' controversy '' of the shower scene.Severine did invite him on the boat and its not like shes shocked or anything when he steps into her shower.Sex between two consenting adults.Whats the problem?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2020 Posts: 7,588
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I do think they should've added another dialogue scene between Severine and Bond on the boat. It also could've served to have lessened the controversy of the shower scene, if they just had a small scene where Bond has managed to get onto the boat, and they share a drink, where Severine can convince us as the audience that she does indeed want to sleep with Bond - obviously in a subtle way - as well as offering more time to develop her character before the inevitable.

    I dont like Skyfall but iv never understood the '' controversy '' of the shower scene.Severine did invite him on the boat and its not like shes shocked or anything when he steps into her shower.Sex between two consenting adults.Whats the problem?

    Lol remind me to never invite you onto my boat.

    “Officer, he invited me onto his boat, and it is customary then for the guest to immediately get naked and hop into the shower with the host. Two consenting adults, what’s the problem??”
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