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Live And Let Die vs Tomorrow Never Dies - By the Elements

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  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Pre Titles - Skyfall
    Title Track - Skyfall
    Title Credits - Skyfall
    Main Villain - Dr No
    Main Bond Girl - Dr No
    Plot - Dr No
    Dialog - Dr No
    Score - Skyfall
    Settings - Dr No
    Action - Skyfall
    Humor - Skyfall
    Cinematography - Skyfall
    Benign Bizarre - Skyfall
    Suspense - Dr No
    Minor Characters - Dr No
    Glamor - Skyfall
    Ally - Skyfall

    SF - 10 DN - 7
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited January 2014 Posts: 19,339
    Pre Titles - NOBODY - A BIT UNFAIR ON DN SO I'VE THIS IS A VETO.
    Title Track - SF
    Title Credits - SF
    Main Villain - SF
    Main Bond Girl - SF
    Plot - DN
    Dialog - DN
    Score - SF
    Settings - DN
    Action - SF
    Humor - SF
    Cinematography - SF
    Benign Bizarre - SF
    Suspense - SF
    Minor Characters - SF
    Glamor - SF
    Ally - SF

    SF - 13 DN -3
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Pre Titles: ERROR! CANNOT PROCESS!
    Title Track: SF
    Title Credits: SF
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: SF
    Settings: DN
    Action: SF
    Humor: SF
    Cinematography: SF
    *Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: DN
    Ally: SF

    9-7 WIN FOR DR NO.
    But I think SF will take the victory here.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN
    Humor: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: DN
    Ally: DN

    16:0 for Dr No.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN
    Humor: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamor: DN
    Ally: DN

    16:0 to Dr. No - the better films wins
  • SlyFox007SlyFox007
    Posts: 414
    PTS: Skyfall
    Title Track: Skyfall
    Title Credits: Dr. No
    Main Villain: Skyfall
    Main Bond Girl: Skyfall
    Overall Plot: Dr. No
    Dialogue: Dr. No
    Score: Skyfall
    Settings: Skyfall
    Action: Skyfall
    Humor: Skyfall
    Cinematography: Skyfall
    *Benign Bizarre: Dr. No
    Suspense: Dr. No
    Minor Characters: Dr. No
    Glamor: Skyfall
    Ally: Dr. No

    Wasn't quite sure who to consider the main Bond girl in Skyfall. In my mind, it's Se've'rine, just because
    Miss Moneypenny never qualifies as the main Bond girl.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    This is a bit of an asymmetrical match-up, since there's no PTS (or proper theme song) in Dr. No and the Bond girl situation is Skyfall is a mess. But that's what makes these matchups fun!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Getafix wrote:
    16:0 to Dr. No - the better films wins
    I love the smell of sanity in the evening...
    B-)
  • YouHaveAnOddJobYouHaveAnOddJob
    Posts: 136
    Pre Titles - Skyfall
    Title Track - Skyfall
    Title Credits - Skyfall
    Main Villain - Dr No
    Main Bond Girl - Dr No
    Plot - Skyfall
    Dialog - Skyfall
    Score - Skyfall
    Settings - Dr No
    Action - Skyfall
    Humor - Dr No
    Cinematography - Skyfall
    Benign Bizarre - Dr No
    Suspense - Skyfall
    Minor Characters - Skyfall
    Glamor - Skyfall
    Ally - Skyfall (Kincade barely skirts pass Quarrel in this one)

    12-5 Skyfall, a bit of a blowout really, Skyfall is one of my favs, and although I don't hate Dr. No, it's not one of my favorites really.
  • Bradford4Bradford4 Banned
    edited January 2014 Posts: 152
    PTS: SF
    Title Track: SF
    Title Credits: SF
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN (thought Severine was uninteresting, and very very ugly looking. And come off it, M is never a Bond girl.)
    Overall Plot: DN (thought SF was too cliched with its techno terror elements, very lazy screenwriting. DN is as fresh as can be, being the very first film)
    Dialogue: SF
    Score: DN (Don't enjoy either score to be honest but give slight edge to DN)
    Settings: DN
    Action: SF
    Humor: SF
    Cinematography: SF no question
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: SF
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: SF
    Ally: DN (I like Quarrel)

    Score

    Dr. NO: 8

    Skyfall: 9

  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    16:0 to Dr. No - the better films wins
    I love the smell of sanity in the evening...
    B-)

    MajorDSmythe beat me to it. But when you think about it rationally, there really is no contest. I fully expect to see SF assume its rightful mid-table ranking position over the next decade or so, as time and critical good sense takes effect. It's interesting how TLD has gradually risen in the rankings over recent years while the Brosnan dreck, after all the initial froth, has mainly sunk down towards the sediment at the bottom. Quality will out in the end. Just as overhyped mediocrity is eventually exposed for what it is.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I like TLD but I don't think it's THAT good. Its a perfectly decent thriller with strong action scenes (a massive improvement over AVTAK) but I've thought of it as a mid entry due to the relatively forgettable supporting characters (except Pushkin), dire Moneypenny and Felix and overly convoluted plot - and that's never changed.

    Dr No and Skyfall are both superior
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I like TLD but I don't think it's THAT good. Its a perfectly decent thriller with strong action scenes (a massive improvement over AVTAK) but I've thought of it as a mid entry due to the relatively forgettable supporting characters (except Pushkin), dire Moneypenny and Felix and overly convoluted plot - and that's never changed.

    Dr No and Skyfall are both superior

    Dr No
    TLD
    SF
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Also...some sequences do feel a bit like they are left over from Moore (the chase in the mountains).
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Soundofthesinners wrote:
    This is a bit of an asymmetrical match-up, since there's no PTS (or proper theme song) in Dr. No and the Bond girl situation is Skyfall is a mess. But that's what makes these matchups fun!

    Not a mess to me. Severine is clearly the lead Bond girl, and she's terrific.

  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Also...some sequences do feel a bit like they are left over from Moore (the chase in the mountains).

    One of the reasons I love it! Best of Moore plus an excellent new Bond.

    I love that whole chase sequence BTW. What's not to like?
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Getafix wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    16:0 to Dr. No - the better films wins
    I love the smell of sanity in the evening...
    B-)

    MajorDSmythe beat me to it. But when you think about it rationally, there really is no contest. I fully expect to see SF assume its rightful mid-table ranking position over the next decade or so, as time and critical good sense takes effect. It's interesting how TLD has gradually risen in the rankings over recent years while the Brosnan dreck, after all the initial froth, has mainly sunk down towards the sediment at the bottom. Quality will out in the end. Just as overhyped mediocrity is eventually exposed for what it is.

    Nonsense. SF was a smashing success on every front and there is no rational reason whatsoever for thinking it will decline in esteem over time.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Also...some sequences do feel a bit like they are left over from Moore (the chase in the mountains).

    One of the reasons I love it! Best of Moore plus an excellent new Bond.

    I love that whole chase sequence BTW. What's not to like?

    Yeah but by that time the approach did feel a little tired. Don't get me wrong, its a fine sequence but just not really anything spectacular IMO. Compare that to the excellent landrover PTS which you certainly couldn't see Moore doing (other than the end which I thought was a little silly).
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    PTS: SF
    Title Track: SF
    Title Credits: SF
    Main Villain: SF
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Overall Plot: SF
    Dialogue: SF
    Score: SF
    Settings: DN
    Action: SF
    Humor: DN
    Cinematography: SF
    *Benign Bizarre: SF
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: SF
    Glamor: DN
    Ally: SF



    SF - 12
    DN - 5
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Also...some sequences do feel a bit like they are left over from Moore (the chase in the mountains).

    One of the reasons I love it! Best of Moore plus an excellent new Bond.

    I love that whole chase sequence BTW. What's not to like?

    Yeah but by that time the approach did feel a little tired. Compare that to the excellent landrover PTS which you certainly couldn't see Moore doing (other than the end which I thought was a little silly).

    I loved the Aston Martin Vantage as well - a beautiful car. The repeated use of the DB5 since GE has actually ruined my enjoyment of that Aston. I preferred seeing a current Aston in DAD, CR and QoS. So lame when they keep on trotting out the DB5.

    Any way, yes, the PTS is excellent, but I also like the car chase and escape in the cello case. It's definitely a bit of a Roger moment, but it works for me.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    16:0 to Dr. No - the better films wins
    I love the smell of sanity in the evening...
    B-)

    MajorDSmythe beat me to it. But when you think about it rationally, there really is no contest. I fully expect to see SF assume its rightful mid-table ranking position over the next decade or so, as time and critical good sense takes effect. It's interesting how TLD has gradually risen in the rankings over recent years while the Brosnan dreck, after all the initial froth, has mainly sunk down towards the sediment at the bottom. Quality will out in the end. Just as overhyped mediocrity is eventually exposed for what it is.

    Nonsense. SF was a smashing success on every front and there is no rational reason whatsoever for thinking it will decline in esteem over time.

    My view remains that SF has been massively overhyped, and is a mid ranker, but only time will tell
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    It may very well slip a bit over time - but not much. When you consider the cast, the performances themselves and Roger Deakens cinematography there's enough to keep it relatively high and make up for the film's weaknesses.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    It may very well slip a bit over time - but not much. When you consider the cast, the performances themselves and Roger Deakens cinematography there's enough to keep it relatively high.

    Okay, I'll take that. There are definitley good elements in the film, such as the cinematrography, and I generally enjoy watching DC as Bond, but I just think overtime as the hype passes, and we have a new DC movie, and then a new Bond, the weaknesses will become ever more apparent and it'll slip. CR is an infinitely better film IMO and I even prefer QoS in terms of entertainment.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    It may very well slip a bit over time - but not much. When you consider the cast, the performances themselves and Roger Deakens cinematography there's enough to keep it relatively high.

    Okay, I'll take that. There are definitley good elements in the film, such as the cinematrography, and I generally enjoy watching DC as Bond, but I just think overtime as the hype passes, and we have a new DC movie, and then a new Bond, the weaknesses will become ever more apparent and it'll slip. CR is an infinitely better film IMO and I even prefer QoS in terms of entertainment.

    I agree Royale is the better film in terms of plotting, but I think both that and SF are better than QoS in terms of entertainment.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    It may very well slip a bit over time - but not much. When you consider the cast, the performances themselves and Roger Deakens cinematography there's enough to keep it relatively high.

    Okay, I'll take that. There are definitley good elements in the film, such as the cinematrography, and I generally enjoy watching DC as Bond, but I just think overtime as the hype passes, and we have a new DC movie, and then a new Bond, the weaknesses will become ever more apparent and it'll slip. CR is an infinitely better film IMO and I even prefer QoS in terms of entertainment.

    I agree Royale is the better film in terms of plotting, but I think both that and SF are better than QoS in terms of entertainment.

    CR has the unfair advantage of being based on a proper Bond plot, but unfair advantage or not, it's still a better film than SF. And I see CR as a high to high middle entry movie in the series.

    SF may look good, but the plot is such a tedious mess that I cannot rank it more highly.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited January 2014 Posts: 13,978
    Getafix wrote:
    MajorDSmythe beat me to it. But when you think about it rationally, there really is no contest. I fully expect to see SF assume its rightful mid-table ranking position over the next decade or so, as time and critical good sense takes effect. It's interesting how TLD has gradually risen in the rankings over recent years while the Brosnan dreck, after all the initial froth, has mainly sunk down towards the sediment at the bottom. Quality will out in the end. Just as overhyped mediocrity is eventually exposed for what it is.

    Dr No lacks the slickness of the following films, but I still like it. SF, and I know that I am about to climb into the cooking pot here, is the most grossly overrated film in the series. Also, Dr No is Bond, straight down the line, it has no delusions of grandeur, unlike SF.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    The last time I saw Dr No a few months back I really liked it, but to be honest I'm not sure I'd say it was a better film than SF. It feels too B-movie like in terms of some of its performances and the overall look and feel.

    If we were discussing FRWL on the other hand that might be a different story.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited January 2014 Posts: 13,978
    If it were possible, that would tip the scales further in favour of FRWL, which is more polished, and improved over it's predecessor in every aspect, imo.
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    edited January 2014 Posts: 6,396
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    MajorDSmythe beat me to it. But when you think about it rationally, there really is no contest. I fully expect to see SF assume its rightful mid-table ranking position over the next decade or so, as time and critical good sense takes effect. It's interesting how TLD has gradually risen in the rankings over recent years while the Brosnan dreck, after all the initial froth, has mainly sunk down towards the sediment at the bottom. Quality will out in the end. Just as overhyped mediocrity is eventually exposed for what it is.

    Dr No lacks the slickness of the following films, but I still like it. SF, and I know that I am about to climb into the cooking pot here, is the most grossly overrated film in the series. Also, Dr No is Bond, straight down the line, it has no delusions of grandeur, unlike SF.

    Let's be frank here though, you are letting your emotions cloud your judgement. Your hatred of Craig and this current era is causing you to be hysterically biased.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    If it were possible, that would tip the scales further in favour of FRWL, which is more polished, and improved over it's predecessor in every aspect, imo.

    I agree. FRWL is better than SF but DN, though very good, is not ((IMO)
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