Live And Let Die vs Tomorrow Never Dies - By the Elements

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  • Posts: 2,483
    jobo wrote:
    jobo wrote:
    jobo wrote:
    I'm absolutely baffled that so many people prefere the cinematography in TND(??!!). I mean, honestly... have we seen the same films?

    Well I'm equally baffled that anybody could vote for AWTD over anything including the sound of cats fornicating (which is what Crow sounds like in TND, BTW).

    Then feel free to remain baffled and prefer the 'crow sounds'...

    You also are free to remain baffled. See how it works?

    Yes, but I am allowed to express my "baffledness" the same way you are to express yours. Besides, I would argue that (dis)appreciation of music has more to do with subjective taste, while analysation of the quality of cinematography is more of an objective observation...

    I disagree. Both are rooted in aesthetics and combine a certain requirement for technical proficiency. Just how subjective their appreciation is, is open to debate.

  • Posts: 11,189
    Agreed Paris was very poorly acted, but I thought Wai Lin was decent enough as a female secret agent.
  • Posts: 2,483
    BAIN123 wrote:
    TND succeeds more at being a lightweight piece of entertainment than QoS does at being a heavy drama.

    With Bond I feel I should be able to re-the film whatever mood I'm in and enjoy it to a degree. In the case of Quantum it feels almost like a bit of a chore at times to get through and I have to be in a certain mood to want to watch it.

    That's a pretty good observation. I like QOS reasonably well, but it is easily the most downbeat Bond film ever made, and I believe one should never leave a Bond film feeling like one has been horsewhipped for ca. two hours.

  • edited June 2014 Posts: 136
    PTS: QOS (amazing car chase and White in the trunk is just icing on the cake)
    Title Track: QOS (AWTD isn't great, but I prefer it to Sheryl Crow any day.
    Title Credits: QoS
    Main Villain: TND ( Not a huge Carver fan, but miles ahead of Greene.)
    Main Bond Girl: QOS (Olga, now if Teri Hatcher was the main Bond girl, may be a different story)
    Overall Plot: TND (Kinda hard to follow the plot clearly in QOS, takes several several rewatches, and then I'm still not certain I got all of it.)
    Dialogue: TND (Q, Brosnan, just that alone will win it)
    Score: QoS
    Settings: QoS
    Action: QOS (very close, but prefer realism over clearly fake motorcycle and helicopter stunts)
    Humor: TND (Was there humor in QOS?)
    Cinematography: TND (Some godawful filming in some spots in QOS)
    Benign Bizarre: TND
    Suspense: QoS
    Minor Characters: TND ( Dr. Kauffman, Stamper, FTW)
    Glamour: TND
    Ally: QoS (Mathis and Felix Leiter, clearly takes the icing on the cake I mentioned earlier)

    9-8

    Very, very close this one. Quantum of Solace takes it.
  • Any final entries here? We've got some solid matches coming up in the next few weeks.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited June 2014 Posts: 14,664
    We've got some solid matches coming up in the next few weeks.
    Next up: Warhead 2000 vs. Licence to Kill Robots. Who will be the master in this game???
  • Well, after a real back and forth match, Tomorrow Never Dies takes it by a margin of 247-206-2 following a miracle rally. Our next match will be between a film beloved by the casuals and film beloved by the hardcore, Goldfinger vs. The Living Daylights! I'll get started:

    PTS: GF
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: GF (irrational love for the GF title sequence, despite its mediocrity)
    Main Villain: GF (blow to the out)
    Main Bond Girl: GF
    Overall Plot: GF
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: TLD
    Settings: TLD
    Action: TLD
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: TLD
    Benign Bizarre: GF (close one)
    Suspense: GF (laser table & bomb countdown)
    Minor Characters: GF (o hai, Jill Masterson)
    Glamour: GF (no movie featuring Afghanistan can win here. It's science.)
    Ally: GF (battle of the basement Felixes! TLD gets a bump from Kamran Shah, though)

    13-4 Goldfinger, for my biggest margin of victory yet.
  • edited June 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Interesting:

    PTS: GF (I really like TLD but you can't beat the early shots of Sean)
    Title Track: GF (no comparison to the bland A-Ha)
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: GF
    Overall Plot: GF
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: GF
    Settings: TLD
    Action: TLD
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: GF
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: GF
    Minor Characters: GF (again no comparison)
    Glamour: GF
    Ally: TLD (I like Pushkin)

    14-3 Goldfinger
  • Posts: 3,336
    PTS: TLD
    Title Track: TLD
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: GF
    Overall Plot: GF
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: TLD
    Settings: TLD
    Action: TLD
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: TLD
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: TLD
    Minor Characters: GF
    Glamour: GF
    Ally: TLD

    9-8 Goldfinger wins
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    PTS: TLD
    Title Track: TLD (A-ha's theme is my second favourite)
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF (no contest)
    Main Bond Girl: GF (always been a fan of Pussy)
    Overall Plot: GF (much less convulated)
    Dialogue: GF ("no, I expect you to die!")
    Score: TLD
    Settings: TLD
    Action: TLD
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: GF (both relatively uninspired)
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: GF
    Minor Characters: TLD
    Glamour: GF
    Ally: TLD

    Goldfinger: 10
    The Living Daylights: 7
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Friday vote:

    PTS: GF
    Title Track: GF (Sorry, countrymen)
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: TLD
    Overall Plot: GF
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: GF
    Settings: GF
    Action: TLD
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: GF
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: TLD
    Minor Characters: GF
    Glamour: GF
    Ally: GF

    14-3 for GF. Not that TLD is bad, but GF is superb.
  • edited June 2014 Posts: 7,507
    PTS: TLD (knockout!)
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: GF
    Overall Plot: TLD
    Dialogue: Tie
    Score: GF
    Settings: TLD
    Action: TLD
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: TLD
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: TLD
    Minor Characters: GF
    Glamour: GF
    Ally: TLD

    Goldfinger: 9
    The Living Daylights: 7
    Tie: 1
  • edited June 2014 Posts: 6,396
    PTS: TLD
    Title Track: TLD
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: GF
    Overall Plot: TLD
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: TLD
    Settings: GF
    Action: TLD
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: GF
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: GF
    Minor Characters: TLD
    Glamour: GF
    Ally: TLD (I'm assuming the ally is Shah)

    Goldfinger wins it 10-7
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Main Bond Girl: GF (always been a fan of Pussy)

    I am a fan of pussy too, but the Maryam pussy is much younger than the Honor pussy.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    PTS: TLD
    Title Track: TLD
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: TLD
    Overall Plot: GF
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: TLD
    Settings: GF
    Action: TLD
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: TLD
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: GF
    Minor Characters: GF
    Glamour: GF
    Ally: GF

    GF 11 TLD 6
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    PTS: TLD
    Title Track: TLD
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: TLD
    Overall Plot: TLD
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: TLD
    Settings: TLD
    Action: TLD
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: TLD
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: TLD
    Minor Characters: TLD
    Glamour: GF
    Ally: TLD

    TLD wins 11-6.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Main Bond Girl: GF (always been a fan of Pussy)

    I am a fan of pussy too, but the Maryam pussy is much younger than the Honor pussy.



    [-( [-(
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Main Bond Girl: GF (always been a fan of Pussy)

    I am a fan of pussy too, but the Maryam pussy is much younger than the Honor pussy.



    Mod edit: =))

  • Posts: 12,514
    PTS: GF (TLD has a very solid one, but GF's is like a Bond movie in 5 minutes!!! So cool)
    Title Track: GF (TLD has an okay title track, but come on, GF is classic)
    Title Credits: GF (Nothing special about TLD's; the golden girl in GF was kind of interesting)
    Main Villain: GF (Wasn't a big fan of TLD's antagonist(s); Auric is classic and somewhat underrated, too)
    Main Bond Girl: TLD (I like Pussy Galore, but Kara Milovy edges her out for me)
    Overall Plot: GF (I always forget the plot of TLD, so I'll take the classic here again)
    Dialogue: GF (This one could have gone to either, but I just find the character interaction to be more interesting in GF)
    Score: GF (Close one again, but I have to give GF the edge here, as it's slightly more catchy for me)
    Settings: TLD (Yet again a very close one, but I'll give the edge to TLD; there was a lot of variety there)
    Action: TLD (This one's very tough, but I'll take TLD, just because the actual action sequences were typically better - especially the PTS, car chase, and finale. GF has some great action scenes too though)
    Humor: GF (TLD has a few good moments of humor, but GF still deserves this point)
    Cinematography: TLD
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: GF (I could see a case for either being made, but since GF gripped me more, I'll give it the point here)
    Minor Characters: GF (Lots of memorable characters in GF, only a couple in TLD for me)
    Glamour: GF (TLD wasn't very "glamorous" at all; GF is about gold, so yeah...)
    Ally: GF (I like GF's Felix, despite what many others say)

    GF - 13 TLD - 4

    Goldfinger is just pure, classic Bond; as far as the quintessential Bond film goes, it can't be topped (some might argue for FRWL, but GF was the first to gather ALL the main elements together). The Living Daylights is a solid Bond film, but not legendary like GF IMO. I like both of these, but it's no surprise GF wins most categories for me.

  • Posts: 2,483
    PTS: TLD (One of the best kayoes the most overrated)
    Title Track: GF (But not by much. TLD is underrated here.)
    Title Credits: GF (Binder phoned in much of his later work)
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: TLD (Pussy's sex appeal was modest while Kara's chemistry with Bond was excellent)
    Overall Plot: GF (TLD is overly convoluted)
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: TLD (I rate TLD the 3rd best Bond score; GF is not far behind, though)
    Settings: TLD (I like Kentucky in 1964, but the Afghan setting was marvelously realized)
    Action: TLD (By a wide margin)
    Humor: TLD (Neither is exactly a gut-buster supreme)
    Cinematography: TLD (The Afghan section makes the difference)
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: TLD (GF should be more suspenseful than it is)
    Minor Characters: TLD (I'm hard pressed to recall a memorable minor character for either)
    Glamour: TLD (a tossup, but there was just something about Vienna, 1987)
    Ally: TLD (Saunders is strong)

    TLD: 11
    GF: 6
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    I have no clue how this will go- let's see...

    PTS: TLD
    Title Track: GF
    Title Credits: GF
    Main Villain: GF
    Main Bond Girl: TLD
    Overall Plot: TLD
    Dialogue: GF
    Score: TLD
    Settings: TLD
    Action: TLD
    Humor: GF
    Cinematography: TIE
    Benign Bizarre: GF
    Suspense: TLD
    Minor Characters: TLD
    Glamour: GF
    Ally: TLD

    Wow... TLD wins 9-7 with 1 tie.
  • Posts: 1,596
    PTS: <b>Goldfinger</b> (the two best in the series)
    Title Track: <b>Goldfinger</b>
    Title Credits: <b>Goldfinger</b>
    Main Villain: <b>Goldfinger</b>
    Main Bond Girl: <i>The Living Daylights</i>
    Overall Plot: <b>Goldfinger</b>
    Dialogue: <b>Goldfinger</b>
    Score: <b>Goldfinger</b> (barely)
    Settings: <i>The Living Daylights</i>
    Action: <i>The Living Daylights</i>
    Humor: <b>Goldfinger</b>
    Cinematography: <b>Goldfinger</b>
    Benign Bizarre: <b>Goldfinger</b>
    Suspense: <i>The Living Daylights</i>
    Minor Characters: <b>Goldfinger</b>
    Glamour: <b>Goldfinger</b>
    Ally: <i>The Living Daylights</i>

    12 - 5 in favor of Goldfinger. Looks like the "film beloved by the casuals" is actually more loved by me, the die hard. Both are great though.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    PTS: The Living Daylights
    Title Track: The Living Daylights
    Title Credits: The Living Daylights
    Main Villain: The Living Daylights
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights
    Overall Plot: The Living Daylights
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights
    Settings: The Living Daylights
    Action: The Living Daylights
    Humor: The Living Daylights
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights
    Benign Bizarre: The Living Daylights
    Suspense: The Living Daylights
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights
    Glamour: The Living Daylights
    Ally: The Living Daylights

    17 - 0 for The Living Daylights.
  • Posts: 11,189
    PTS: The Living Daylights
    Title Track: The Living Daylights
    Title Credits: The Living Daylights
    Main Villain: The Living Daylights
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights
    Overall Plot: The Living Daylights
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights
    Settings: The Living Daylights
    Action: The Living Daylights
    Humor: The Living Daylights
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights
    Benign Bizarre: The Living Daylights
    Suspense: The Living Daylights
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights
    Glamour: The Living Daylights
    Ally: The Living Daylights

    17 - 0 for The Living Daylights.

    Well thats positiv....

    no, I'm above that joke :p
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Well thats positiv....

    no, I'm above that joke :p

    :))
  • Posts: 6,396
    PTS: The Living Daylights
    Title Track: The Living Daylights
    Title Credits: The Living Daylights
    Main Villain: The Living Daylights
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights
    Overall Plot: The Living Daylights
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights
    Settings: The Living Daylights
    Action: The Living Daylights
    Humor: The Living Daylights
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights
    Benign Bizarre: The Living Daylights
    Suspense: The Living Daylights
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights
    Glamour: The Living Daylights
    Ally: The Living Daylights

    17 - 0 for The Living Daylights.

    Wow. None of us saw that one coming...
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    If it had been From Rusia With Love, the villain category might.... might have been different. As it is, even by Connery era standards, Goldfinger doesn't appeal to me.
  • Posts: 2,402
    PTS: The Living Daylights. As important as the GF one is, it's not even close. Probably the best in the series.
    Title Track: The Living Daylights. This is closer but GF is overplayed whereas this gets an incredible amount of flack.
    Title Credits: The Living Daylights. This is Binder's best effort of the 80s and certainly better than Brownjohn's.
    Main Villain: The Living Daylights. I did this by weighted average. Yes, I have Whitaker very low, but same goes to Goldfinger. Koskov, who I adore, balances things out in favour of TLD. Unfortunately, this is the only category where GF stood a chance.
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights
    Overall Plot: The Living Daylights. GF's plot is terrible.
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights. One of Barry's holy trifecta (TB, OHMSS, TLD) against a score where he'd yet to come into his own. GF does still have a great soundtrack though, and I actually own the LP for it.
    Settings: The Living Daylights. Six countries and three continents? Yes please!
    Action: The Living Daylights. Ice chase and cargo net fight against the tedious Fort Knox standoff.
    Humor: The Living Daylights. This was quite close, actually. I think Dalton manages the humour fine though, and the writing is better.
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights. The action shots are perfect.
    Benign Bizarre: The Living Daylights. Neither film really has it, but why give GF a point for no reason?
    Suspense: The Living Daylights. Oh completely. All Goldfinger has is the laser table scene.
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights. Pushkin. Kamran Shah. Even the assassin in the PTS who never speaks a word is one of the most memorable characters in the series!
    Glamour: The Living Daylights. What does Goldfinger really have other than a bunch of gold? I find TLD to be very exotic at times.
    Ally: The Living Daylights. Oh god, Linder's Leiter is abysmal.

    Clean sweep for The Living Daylights.
  • Posts: 6,396
    PTS: The Living Daylights. As important as the GF one is, it's not even close. Probably the best in the series.
    Title Track: The Living Daylights. This is closer but GF is overplayed whereas this gets an incredible amount of flack.
    Title Credits: The Living Daylights. This is Binder's best effort of the 80s and certainly better than Brownjohn's.
    Main Villain: The Living Daylights. I did this by weighted average. Yes, I have Whitaker very low, but same goes to Goldfinger. Koskov, who I adore, balances things out in favour of TLD. Unfortunately, this is the only category where GF stood a chance.
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights
    Overall Plot: The Living Daylights. GF's plot is terrible.
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights. One of Barry's holy trifecta (TB, OHMSS, TLD) against a score where he'd yet to come into his own. GF does still have a great soundtrack though, and I actually own the LP for it.
    Settings: The Living Daylights. Six countries and three continents? Yes please!
    Action: The Living Daylights. Ice chase and cargo net fight against the tedious Fort Knox standoff.
    Humor: The Living Daylights. This was quite close, actually. I think Dalton manages the humour fine though, and the writing is better.
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights. The action shots are perfect.
    Benign Bizarre: The Living Daylights. Neither film really has it, but why give GF a point for no reason?
    Suspense: The Living Daylights. Oh completely. All Goldfinger has is the laser table scene.
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights. Pushkin. Kamran Shah. Even the assassin in the PTS who never speaks a word is one of the most memorable characters in the series!
    Glamour: The Living Daylights. What does Goldfinger really have other than a bunch of gold? I find TLD to be very exotic at times.
    Ally: The Living Daylights. Oh god, Linder's Leiter is abysmal.

    Clean sweep for The Living Daylights.

    So on what basis do you give TLD the point instead if neither film has it? Makes no sense.
  • Posts: 2,402
    PTS: The Living Daylights. As important as the GF one is, it's not even close. Probably the best in the series.
    Title Track: The Living Daylights. This is closer but GF is overplayed whereas this gets an incredible amount of flack.
    Title Credits: The Living Daylights. This is Binder's best effort of the 80s and certainly better than Brownjohn's.
    Main Villain: The Living Daylights. I did this by weighted average. Yes, I have Whitaker very low, but same goes to Goldfinger. Koskov, who I adore, balances things out in favour of TLD. Unfortunately, this is the only category where GF stood a chance.
    Main Bond Girl: The Living Daylights
    Overall Plot: The Living Daylights. GF's plot is terrible.
    Dialogue: The Living Daylights
    Score: The Living Daylights. One of Barry's holy trifecta (TB, OHMSS, TLD) against a score where he'd yet to come into his own. GF does still have a great soundtrack though, and I actually own the LP for it.
    Settings: The Living Daylights. Six countries and three continents? Yes please!
    Action: The Living Daylights. Ice chase and cargo net fight against the tedious Fort Knox standoff.
    Humor: The Living Daylights. This was quite close, actually. I think Dalton manages the humour fine though, and the writing is better.
    Cinematography: The Living Daylights. The action shots are perfect.
    Benign Bizarre: The Living Daylights. Neither film really has it, but why give GF a point for no reason?
    Suspense: The Living Daylights. Oh completely. All Goldfinger has is the laser table scene.
    Minor Characters: The Living Daylights. Pushkin. Kamran Shah. Even the assassin in the PTS who never speaks a word is one of the most memorable characters in the series!
    Glamour: The Living Daylights. What does Goldfinger really have other than a bunch of gold? I find TLD to be very exotic at times.
    Ally: The Living Daylights. Oh god, Linder's Leiter is abysmal.

    Clean sweep for The Living Daylights.

    So on what basis do you give TLD the point instead if neither film has it? Makes no sense.

    I figured at that point, the winning film might as well have the point. Besides, I find Whitaker's statues and Necros' personality slightly strange. I don't find anything in GF strange.
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