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Renard's Suicide Submarine in TWINE - Just who was in the know of his sub reactor meltdown plan?

DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
edited October 2013 in Bond Movies Posts: 18,281
I see this has come up before on the community (though it was never answered adequately there), as I quote from @TheWizardOfIce below, but I thought it deserved a thread of its own as I've been pondering over this problem for some time and have not come to any one answer. Here's the question from @TheWizardOfIce which I second:

"All the guys helping make the plutonium rod seem to be in on the plan so I know Renard has nothing to live for but I'm sure these guys want to spend their ill gotten gains rather than blow themselves up. Are they all so devoted to Renard they are going to kill themselves alongside him? Or do they all have bullets lodged in their brains?"

It would be great if we could discuss this here anew in this thread as @TheWizardOfIce has neatly raised all of the points I have, only more eloquently, and if it ain't broke etc.

Comments

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    My guess is that Renard told the henchmen that they were just going to threaten to blow it up for a ransom. But in the end it's the 1999 version of Metz being used for Villainy.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited October 2013 Posts: 18,281
    Murdock wrote:
    My guess is that Renard told the henchmen that they were just going to threaten to blow it up for a ransom. But in the end it's the 1999 version of Metz being used for Villainy.

    Yes, I never looked at it from the Prof. Dr. Metz angle before; interesting observations @Murdock.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I was wondering this to when I watched TWINE a week ago. Ill have to rewatch the climax to spot any indicators as to the situation.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I've recently read the novelisation, and it's stated that Renard's men were under the impression that they'd be paid and that they weren't going to blow anything up.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    I've recently read the novelisation, and it's stated that Renard's men were under the impression that they'd be paid and that they weren't going to blow anything up.

    Oh, great! Thanks for that. I have the novelisation, but I never read it. That's pretty conclusive evidence, I'd say and kind of as I'd imagined. It's the only way that it makes sense to me.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ok that's that one seemingly solved.

    Now what about the blokes in the Amazonian control centre in MR?

    Presumably Drax has told them its all a project to see if people can live on a space station for a prolonged time. That gas globe will come as a bit of a surprise!

    Except he has the orchid in the control room and how about the guys who have designed the globes in the first place? And who is it who says 'operation orchid is go' or something like that? Is that when they are still on the ground or is it in orbit?
  • SiberiaSiberia
    Posts: 30
    MayDayDiVicenzo wrote:
    I was wondering this to when I watched TWINE a week ago. Ill have to rewatch the climax to spot any indicators as to the situation.
    Which climax? There were quite a few, if Bond is to be believed.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    Dragonpol wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    I've recently read the novelisation, and it's stated that Renard's men were under the impression that they'd be paid and that they weren't going to blow anything up.

    Oh, great! Thanks for that. I have the novelisation, but I never read it. That's pretty conclusive evidence, I'd say and kind of as I'd imagined. It's the only way that it makes sense to me.

    Yes, little did those poor, dumb, vodka swillers realize they were going to be martyrs for the cause. Looks like that holiday excursion to the Crimea isn't happening any time soon.

    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Ok that's that one seemingly solved.

    Now what about the blokes in the Amazonian control centre in MR?

    Presumably Drax has told them its all a project to see if people can live on a space station for a prolonged time. That gas globe will come as a bit of a surprise!

    Except he has the orchid in the control room and how about the guys who have designed the globes in the first place? And who is it who says 'operation orchid is go' or something like that? Is that when they are still on the ground or is it in orbit?

    After a good chuckle, I always wondered about that now that you bring it up. Assuming they didn't trek off themselves in the final shuttle launch to the flying stud farm, how could they have missed the fact that if they were staying behind, they were toast?

    You gotta love Muckraker ;)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Ok that's that one seemingly solved.

    Now what about the blokes in the Amazonian control centre in MR?

    Presumably Drax has told them its all a project to see if people can live on a space station for a prolonged time. That gas globe will come as a bit of a surprise!

    Except he has the orchid in the control room and how about the guys who have designed the globes in the first place? And who is it who says 'operation orchid is go' or something like that? Is that when they are still on the ground or is it in orbit?

    And I've always wondered about Cavendish the butler, too. Perhaps they all stay in an underground compound until the poison gas has dissipated.
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    edited November 2013 Posts: 6,396
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    I've recently read the novelisation, and it's stated that Renard's men were under the impression that they'd be paid and that they weren't going to blow anything up.

    Oh, great! Thanks for that. I have the novelisation, but I never read it. That's pretty conclusive evidence, I'd say and kind of as I'd imagined. It's the only way that it makes sense to me.

    Yes, little did those poor, dumb, vodka swillers realize they were going to be martyrs for the cause. Looks like that holiday excursion to the Crimea isn't happening any time soon.

    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Ok that's that one seemingly solved.

    Now what about the blokes in the Amazonian control centre in MR?

    Presumably Drax has told them its all a project to see if people can live on a space station for a prolonged time. That gas globe will come as a bit of a surprise!

    Except he has the orchid in the control room and how about the guys who have designed the globes in the first place? And who is it who says 'operation orchid is go' or something like that? Is that when they are still on the ground or is it in orbit?

    After a good chuckle, I always wondered about that now that you bring it up. Assuming they didn't trek off themselves in the final shuttle launch to the flying stud farm, how could they have missed the fact that if they were staying behind, they were toast?

    You gotta love Muckraker ;)

    Brilliant! I've always wondered that too. Also, Bond gets Drax to confirm that anyone not meeting his ideas of a 'perfect specimen' will be exterminated. Which begs the question as to what the hell would have happened to all those technicians up on the space station? It's not as though they had a lifetime's supply of food is it! Perhaps they were going to live up there for the rest of their days or were they expecting to return to Earth at some point and find a nice quiet villa to enjoy their retirement? Did none of them have families left on Earth or were they just content in the knowledge that their wives/children/parents etc. were about to be gassed?
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Siberia wrote:
    MayDayDiVicenzo wrote:
    I was wondering this to when I watched TWINE a week ago. Ill have to rewatch the climax to spot any indicators as to the situation.
    Which climax? There were quite a few, if Bond is to be believed.

    Eh? Inside the submarine? The ensuing struggle with Renard in the reactor room? What other climax are you referring to? The topic of this discussion is about the technicians on the submarine, I would have thought that would have been sufficient.
  • YojimboYojimbo
    Posts: 22
    MayDay, I believe you've missed Siberia's double entendre.

    "I thought Christmas only came once a year"
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Yojimbo wrote:
    MayDay, I believe you've missed Siberia's double entendre.

    "I thought Christmas only came once a year"

    Considerably. Alas, the double entendre was subtle.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    WillyGalore wrote:
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    I've recently read the novelisation, and it's stated that Renard's men were under the impression that they'd be paid and that they weren't going to blow anything up.

    Oh, great! Thanks for that. I have the novelisation, but I never read it. That's pretty conclusive evidence, I'd say and kind of as I'd imagined. It's the only way that it makes sense to me.

    Yes, little did those poor, dumb, vodka swillers realize they were going to be martyrs for the cause. Looks like that holiday excursion to the Crimea isn't happening any time soon.

    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Ok that's that one seemingly solved.

    Now what about the blokes in the Amazonian control centre in MR?

    Presumably Drax has told them its all a project to see if people can live on a space station for a prolonged time. That gas globe will come as a bit of a surprise!

    Except he has the orchid in the control room and how about the guys who have designed the globes in the first place? And who is it who says 'operation orchid is go' or something like that? Is that when they are still on the ground or is it in orbit?

    After a good chuckle, I always wondered about that now that you bring it up. Assuming they didn't trek off themselves in the final shuttle launch to the flying stud farm, how could they have missed the fact that if they were staying behind, they were toast?

    You gotta love Muckraker ;)

    Brilliant! I've always wondered that too. Also, Bond gets Drax to confirm that anyone not meeting his ideas of a 'perfect specimen' will be exterminated. Which begs the question as to what the hell would have happened to all those technicians up on the space station? It's not as though they had a lifetime's supply of food is it! Perhaps they were going to live up there for the rest of their days or were they expecting to return to Earth at some point and find a nice quiet villa to enjoy their retirement? Did none of them have families left on Earth or were they just content in the knowledge that their wives/children/parents etc. were about to be gassed?

    compartmentalisation would be the answer here, in that Drax told the various people different things and that only he and some trustees were completely in the loop. And as such he could oversee the whole plan and as such commit genocide. And indeed some of the austronauts might have conflicted feelings about it but in the end it is kind of nice to stay alive and live in comfort!

    It is not as if they were being chased by the worlds best cyber criminal, and the NSA had nothing on him or let the British Secret service muddle along, and then hide yourself in the middle of nowhere with NO backup whatsoever and leave breadcrumbs to let the man find you. It would have been far easier to eat a bullit in that case nobody would get hurt either and would have been a big finger to the baddie as well. So far Skyflop!

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    I'd be interested in hearing any other fresh or offbeat perspectives on what I call "The Renard Suicide Submarine Conundrum"...
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    @SaintMark- resorting to calling the most successful film in franchise history "Skyflop", one that exceeded Moonraker's take, shows the obvious weakness of your position. This is a fact that cannot be rationally argued. I guess you don't like seeing your personal opinion taking it on the chin.

    Most of us simply don't see Bond films in this manner. But then again, you like DAD better than QOS, so I guess I should expect such a reaction.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Ok that's that one seemingly solved.

    Now what about the blokes in the Amazonian control centre in MR?

    Presumably Drax has told them its all a project to see if people can live on a space station for a prolonged time. That gas globe will come as a bit of a surprise!

    Except he has the orchid in the control room and how about the guys who have designed the globes in the first place? And who is it who says 'operation orchid is go' or something like that? Is that when they are still on the ground or is it in orbit?

    Yes, and don't forget Cavendish, too: Drax's butler. Perhaps they will all just stay out of harms' way until Drax's finely wrought plan has reached its conclusion.
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