MGM & Producers finally settle with McClory Estate

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Comments

  • edited November 2013 Posts: 6,396
    What matters is what the history books say. And what they certainly don't say is that Kevin McClory had co-credit for the cinematic success of James Bond. End of.

    Yes but they should do. Have you not been listening to Morgan? All he's asking for is justice for Kevin.

    Perhaps we should start a crusade on his behalf.

    How about the Justice, Equality and Recognition for Kevin campaign?

    Better known as J.E.R.K. ;-)
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 3,494
    What matters is what the history books say. And what they certainly don't say is that Kevin McClory had co-credit for the cinematic success of James Bond. End of.

    Yes but they should do. Have you not been listening to Morgan? All he's asking for is justice for Kevin.

    Perhaps we should start a crusade on his behalf.

    How about the Justice, Equality and Recognition for Kevin campaign?

    Better known as J.E.R.K. ;-)

    :))
  • JamesPageJamesPage Administrator, Moderator, Director
    edited November 2013 Posts: 1,380
    Morgan wrote:
    ...comments about urinals and bladders are vile and disgusting yet unfortunately appear to be a very accurate measure of the standard of discussion on this forum. Mods?

    Better try www.kevinmcclorycommunity.com

    This is the guy who had his website vote reset went it went against his favor when true Bond fans voted en masse against his Bond ownership (claiming the site 'got hacked') and told the courts in 2000/2001 that he suffered death threats via the internet (assuming those were from real people that time, not 'hacked'). These are some of the reasons the online fan community has very little sympathy for the man.

    In the tech/IP field they call this patent-trolling.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 6,396
    Thanks for the update @James. That just about says all I needed to know about the twat. He is the worst kind of troll and hopefully he'll be ejected as swiftly as possible.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 3,494
    "James Page. You've just killed Kevin McGlory's greatest ally!"

    "Is that who it was?"


    Time to take out the trash. And send that man to Disney World :)

    trash1.jpg
  • Posts: 6,396
    @SirHenry

    You might want to go with this ;-)

  • Willy, I'll pay for a trip for two!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited November 2013 Posts: 18,264
    What matters is what the history books say. And what they certainly don't say is that Kevin McClory had co-credit for the cinematic success of James Bond. End of.

    Yes but they should do. Have you not been listening to Morgan? All he's asking for is justice for Kevin.

    An Irishman in a miscarriage of justice case?! Shock horror. That's never happened before now, has it? New to British legal history that. ;)

    And how about this Irish train announcer to deal with trolls?



    I think he's just what we need here on MI6 Community!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Kevin
    Dragonpol wrote:
    An Irishman in a miscarriage of justice case?! Shock horror. That's never happened before now, has it? New to British legal history that. ;)

    Very good Draggers. They were all found completely 'innocent' though werent they?

    I note Morgan is online at this very moment, I would like to ask him why he is so vehemently pro Mcclory?

    Giving the bloke his fair dues (which I think I have done - I admitted he made a 'contribution') is one thing but just why are you so keen to push the idea that this guy somehow gave us Bond? Seems to me that you have gone beyond playing mere devils advocate and have some personal investment. I can only conclude you are a relative or have some such connection with Kev or are some sort of troll who clearly has a great depth of Bondian knowledge but prefers just to wind people up.

    Do you have any opinions on any other topics?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Yes, certainly, they were all "innocent"...because the court couldn't find them guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Sure they're laughin'
  • JamesPage wrote:
    Morgan wrote:
    ...comments about urinals and bladders are vile and disgusting yet unfortunately appear to be a very accurate measure of the standard of discussion on this forum. Mods?

    Better try www.kevinmcclorycommunity.com

    This is the guy who had his website vote reset went it went against his favor when true Bond fans voted en masse against his Bond ownership (claiming the site 'got hacked') and told the courts in 2000/2001 that he suffered death threats via the internet (assuming those were from real people that time, not 'hacked'). These are some of the reasons the online fan community has very little sympathy for the man.

    In the tech/IP field they call this patent-trolling.

    I prefer to have my own opinion about Kevin McGlory. I don't know if I have the typical 'character traits' for a Bond fan....and I don't really care. Yes, for the most part he's quite a prick. It is a fact that he polluted the franchise with unnecessary lawsuits.

    Still, the man did co-produce 'Thunderball'. One of my personal favourite Bond films and IMO Connery's best. The most 'aquatic' Bond films of the bunch, with wunderful expensive, sultry watersports locale. It was McGlory's passion for watersports that gave 'Thunderball' this unique look and feel.

    Concerning 'Never Say Never Again', I do agree that the film was weaker than 'Octopussy'. But apart from being an unofficial Bond film, it still is a standalone action flick with wunderful acting. Barbara Carrera's Golden Globe nomination is easily forgotten, but what she did with Fatima Blush was delightful. It brought me back to the good old Rosa Klebb-days. Klaus Maria Brandauer gave us a wunderful rendition of Largo, IMO more psychotic and scary than Kamal Khan. Then Sean vs. Roger. I was asking myself: If ONLY Sean was Bond in 'Octopussy'. Also, I can still name three or four official Bond films that I consider weaker from a cinematic perspective than the unofficial 'NSNA'

    So despite all the negativity surrounding McGlory -I do think the recent article on MI6's frontpage '10 Negative Ways Kevin McClory Affected The 007 Franchise' is actually insightful and quite good-, he clearly contributed to the Bond franchise. From a pure cinematic perspective, it is quite an interesting, almost soap-ish contribution.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    JamesPage wrote:
    Morgan wrote:
    ...comments about urinals and bladders are vile and disgusting yet unfortunately appear to be a very accurate measure of the standard of discussion on this forum. Mods?

    Better try www.kevinmcclorycommunity.com

    This is the guy who had his website vote reset went it went against his favor when true Bond fans voted en masse against his Bond ownership (claiming the site 'got hacked') and told the courts in 2000/2001 that he suffered death threats via the internet (assuming those were from real people that time, not 'hacked'). These are some of the reasons the online fan community has very little sympathy for the man.

    In the tech/IP field they call this patent-trolling.

    I prefer to have my own opinion about Kevin McGlory. I don't know if I have the typical 'character traits' for a Bond fan....and I don't really care. Yes, for the most part he's quite a prick. It is a fact that he polluted the franchise with unnecessary lawsuits.

    Still, the man did co-produce 'Thunderball'. One of my personal favourite Bond films and IMO Connery's best. The most 'aquatic' Bond films of the bunch, with wunderful expensive, sultry watersports locale. It was McGlory's passion for watersports that gave 'Thunderball' this unique look and feel.

    Concerning 'Never Say Never Again', I do agree that the film was weaker than 'Octopussy'. But apart from being an unofficial Bond film, it still is a standalone action flick with wunderful acting. Barbara Carrera's Golden Globe nomination is easily forgotten, but what she did with Fatima Blush was delightful. It brought me back to the good old Rosa Klebb-days. Klaus Maria Brandauer gave us a wunderful rendition of Largo, IMO more psychotic and scary than Kamal Khan. Then Sean vs. Roger. I was asking myself: If ONLY Sean was Bond in 'Octopussy'. Also, I can still name three or four official Bond films that I consider weaker from a cinematic perspective than the unofficial 'NSNA'

    So despite all the negativity surrounding McGlory -I do think the recent article on MI6's frontpage '10 Negative Ways Kevin McClory Affected The 007 Franchise' is actually insightful and quite good-, he clearly contributed to the Bond franchise. From a pure cinematic perspective, it is quite an interesting, almost soap-ish contribution.

    Well Mcclory contributed practically zero to NSNA apart from his 'rights'.

    And TB is ploddingly dull, in no small part thanks to the relentless underwater scenes. How many times do we need to see a bloke get his mask pulled off before it becomes boring? TB answers this question for you. And then does it another 50 times into the bargain.
  • Posts: 1,817
    For me, the only thing wrong with Thunderball is having McClory in the credits as producer (and his cameo).
  • [/quote]
    Still, the man did co-produce 'Thunderball'. One of my personal favourite Bond films and IMO Connery's best. The most 'aquatic' Bond films of the bunch, with wunderful expensive, sultry watersports locale. It was McGlory's passion for watersports that gave 'Thunderball' this unique look and feel.[/quote]

    Thunderball is quite an incredible film. It is my joint favourite Connery Bond along with From Russia with Love. Sure, some people complain that there are too many underwater scenes and that they are quite lengthy, but when watching the awesome remastered Blu Ray of Thunderball, the underwater scenes really stand out and are really ambitious.
  • Posts: 15,106
    I love TB too, but does it owe that much if anything to McClory? The basic story is all Fleming, so is the main villain, the antagonism and love triangle too...
  • Posts: 1,052
    The only reason EON would bring back Blofeld is because bald actors are cheaper than ones with long flowing locks?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited November 2013 Posts: 18,264
    I think that Thunderball unfairly gets a lot of stick from Bond fans these days and it's not at all justified. I don't hate Kevin McClory as much as some seem do (the man's dead, let it go) but then again I'm no expert on the whole affair (though I do have an excellent book on it, The Battle For Bond, by Robert Sellers). I think that Thunderball has one of the most scarily realistic plots of all of the Bond films, one of the best PTS fights and one of the best climactic fights on the Disco Volante replete with Peter Hunt's pioneering action scene editing. I even like the underwater scenes, which while apparently boring now were fairly revolutionary at the time. It also contains Sean Connery last great portrayal of James Bond in my view. And let's not forget the fact that Thunderball was also the most successful James Bond film (even film?) at the box office until Skyfall, and that's quite a record. Please don't let Kevin McClory's involvement poison your judgement of an excellent James Bond film that stays very faithful to the Fleming source material.
  • RC7RC7
    edited November 2013 Posts: 10,512
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I think that Thunderball unfairly gets a lot of stick from Bond fans these days and it's not at all justified.

    Does it get that much stick?

    TB is beautifully shot and features some great moments, but it's pacing is a little awry and certain scenes, such as the Junkanoo, seem to meander. It's probably top of my list in terms of Bond movies that need a good old trim. GF set a template, in terms of structure, that should have been capitalised on. I know GF itself suffers at points, with the Auric Stud scenes taking a bit of the sting out of the movie, but other than that it rattles along. I think they got a little carried away with the success of GF and took the 'bigger is better' approach a little too literally. It's saving graces for me are a beautifully assured performance by Connery, the best SPECTRE scene of the series, lush cinematography, Barry's score and the innovative nature of the underwater battles (although they totally overindulged themselves).
  • RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I think that Thunderball unfairly gets a lot of stick from Bond fans these days and it's not at all justified.

    Does it get that much stick?

    TB is beautifully shot and features some great moments, but it's pacing is a little awry and certain scenes, such as the Junkanoo, seem to meander. It's probably top of my list in terms of Bond movies that need a good old trim. GF set a template, in terms of structure, that should have been capitalised on. I know GF itself suffers at points, with the Auric Stud scenes taking a bit of the sting out of the movie, but other than that it rattles along. I think they got a little carried away with the success of GF and took the 'bigger is better' approach a little too literally. It's saving graces for me are a beautifully assured performance by Connery, the best SPECTRE scene of the series, lush cinematography, Barry's score and the innovative nature of the underwater battles (although they totally overindulged themselves).

    One could argue if either GF or TB was Sean's best. Despite the fact that I think FRWL is Sean's best Bond film, I think Sean's best Bond performance was in TB.

    And GF, TB and SF share something unique within the Bond franchise: Together they won 4 Oscars ;-).
  • Posts: 15,106
    I find TB superior in many ways to GF. But the qualities of TB I fail to find one due to McClory.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote:
    I find TB superior in many ways to GF. But the qualities of TB I fail to find one due to McClory.

    That's a difficult statement to qualify though, isn't it? Unless we have a definitive breakdown of what McClory did and didn't contribute.

    @Gustav_Graves - I'd personally argue that DN is Connery's best. Ironically, I don't think he ever topped his opening scene. It's pure perfection.
  • RC7 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I find TB superior in many ways to GF. But the qualities of TB I fail to find one due to McClory.

    That's a difficult statement to qualify though, isn't it? Unless we have a definitive breakdown of what McClory did and didn't contribute.

    @Gustav_Graves - I'd personally argue that DN is Connery's best. Ironically, I don't think he ever topped his opening scene. It's pure perfection.

    Hmmm, but solely based on that scene @RC7 ;-)? I am talking about the entire performance.....but I think you too no?
  • Posts: 1,548
    Thunderball is classic Connery no doubt but I personally disagree that any of it's success is down to Mcclory.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Sean's performance in Thunderball is my personal favorite. And I can safely say that Kevvy has nothing to do with how he was directed. I shudder to think what would have happened to the future of Bond should he have usurped control of the cinematic character. What we can say is that TB was a collective effort of ideas by Ian Fleming, Kevin McGlory, and Jack Whittingham, and McGlory's participation in the effort is clear. To my knowledge, that is all the courts ever affirmed, not specifically who contributed what to the story.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I find TB superior in many ways to GF. But the qualities of TB I fail to find one due to McClory.

    That's a difficult statement to qualify though, isn't it? Unless we have a definitive breakdown of what McClory did and didn't contribute.

    @Gustav_Graves - I'd personally argue that DN is Connery's best. Ironically, I don't think he ever topped his opening scene. It's pure perfection.

    Hmmm, but solely based on that scene @RC7 ;-)? I am talking about the entire performance.....but I think you too no?

    I think he's cool as you like in TB, but almost too cool. I love his flippancy after the Volpe scene 'You can't win them all', but I never feel his Bond is under threat in TB. He cruises through it, albeit beautifully. I enjoy the duality of his performance in DN (which he also carries over into FRWL). By GF he is playing his 'too cool for school' Bond, which is massively enjoyable, but doesn't have as many facets as his DN/FRWL performances. Just my opinion.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    LeChiffre wrote:
    Thunderball is classic Connery no doubt but I personally disagree that any of it's success is down to Mcclory.

    We're better than this guys. If we can prove what McClory did and didn't do then fine, otherwise I'd suggest we don't fuel the fire of hatred.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 11,119
    Sean's performance in Thunderball is my personal favorite. And I can safely say that Kevvy has nothing to do with how he was directed. I shudder to think what would have happened to the future of Bond should he have usurped control of the cinematic character. What we can say is that TB was a collective effort of ideas by Ian Fleming, Kevin McGlory, and Jack Whittingham, and McGlory's participation in the effort is clear. To my knowledge, that is all the courts ever affirmed, not specifically who contributed what to the story.

    "In 1958 Fleming approached McClory to produce the first Bond film. McClory rejected all of Fleming's books but felt that the character James Bond could be adapted for the screen. McClory, Bryce, Fleming and Jack Whittingham developed the new James Bond character through a number of treatments and screenplays. McClory, Fleming and Bryce settled on the screenplay Longitude 78 West (later renamed Thunderball) and went into pre-production."

    "On arriving in Nassau McClory searched for possible locations to shoot many of the key sequences of the film and used the home of a local millionaire couple, the Sullivans, for Largo's estate."

    If this is the case and 'Thunderball' was Flemings novelization of the final screenplay, then both McGlory and Fleming, together with Whittingham and Bryce, came up with SPECTRE and Blofeld :-). We don't know exactly which of the four person's screamed: "Let's call it SPECTRE and let the villain be called Blofeld!". Fact is, pure statistically McGlory was 25% of a group of four talented, creative people.

    Regarding McGlory's producer's credits.....before we start slamming down McGlory, can SOMEONE in here be the 'research journalist' and find out exactly what he did during production of 'Thunderball'?
  • Posts: 15,106
    I find TB superior in many ways to GF. But the qualities of TB I fail to find one due to McClory.
    RC7 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I find TB superior in many ways to GF. But the qualities of TB I fail to find one due to McClory.

    That's a difficult statement to qualify though, isn't it? Unless we have a definitive breakdown of what McClory did and didn't contribute.

    @Gustav_Graves - I'd personally argue that DN is Connery's best. Ironically, I don't think he ever topped his opening scene. It's pure perfection.

    Did McClory create Largo? Domino? How much of the plot did he contribute to? That's what I mean. Wanting Nassau as a setting and underwater sequences is a pretty thin contribution. And at the core of TB, there is an amazing novel by Fleming. And who developed Blofeld? Again, Fleming. Granted, in the movies we see little of the character, but nevertheless, the puritan with a work ethic in crime is still there.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote:
    I find TB superior in many ways to GF. But the qualities of TB I fail to find one due to McClory.
    RC7 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I find TB superior in many ways to GF. But the qualities of TB I fail to find one due to McClory.

    That's a difficult statement to qualify though, isn't it? Unless we have a definitive breakdown of what McClory did and didn't contribute.

    @Gustav_Graves - I'd personally argue that DN is Connery's best. Ironically, I don't think he ever topped his opening scene. It's pure perfection.

    Did McClory create Largo? Domino? How much of the plot did he contribute to? That's what I mean. Wanting Nassau as a setting and underwater sequences is a pretty thin contribution. And at the core of TB, there is an amazing novel by Fleming. And who developed Blofeld? Again, Fleming. Granted, in the movies we see little of the character, but nevertheless, the puritan with a work ethic in crime is still there.

    Sorry, you misunderstand me. I meant qualifying McClory's role as 'Producer'. We don't disregard Cubby and Harry's input, mainly because we don't have a full picture of what they did and didn't contribute, just anecdotes. What I'm implying is, there may well be decent elements to the picture that are attributable to McClory, we just don't know.
  • Posts: 6,396
    I agree with @RC7. I've never been bothered about what McClory contributed regarding TB, SPECTRE and Blofeld. I was concerned with the muppet from yesterday who was adamant that McClory was co-responsible for the cinematic version of Bond. That, as we say in the UK, was a massive 'Head's Gone'.
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