MGM & Producers finally settle with McClory Estate

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  • I agree with @RC7. I've never been bothered about what McClory contributed regarding TB, SPECTRE and Blofeld. I was concerned with the muppet from yesterday who was adamant that McClory was co-responsible for the cinematic version of Bond. That, as we say in the UK, was a massive 'Head's Gone'.

    Yup, agreed :-).
  • I agree with @RC7. I've never been bothered about what McClory contributed regarding TB, SPECTRE and Blofeld. I was concerned with the muppet from yesterday who was adamant that McClory was co-responsible for the cinematic version of Bond. That, as we say in the UK, was a massive 'Head's Gone'.

    Could it be that Kevvy's sycophantic flunky is gone now that JP has exposed him/her as a "patent troll"?

  • edited November 2013 Posts: 6,396
    I agree with @RC7. I've never been bothered about what McClory contributed regarding TB, SPECTRE and Blofeld. I was concerned with the muppet from yesterday who was adamant that McClory was co-responsible for the cinematic version of Bond. That, as we say in the UK, was a massive 'Head's Gone'.

    Could it be that Kevvy's sycophantic flunky is gone now that JP has exposed him/her as a "patent troll"?

    Yeah, he made no further comment after what JP posted. Funny that!
  • Posts: 15,106
    I agree with @RC7. I've never been bothered about what McClory contributed regarding TB, SPECTRE and Blofeld. I was concerned with the muppet from yesterday who was adamant that McClory was co-responsible for the cinematic version of Bond. That, as we say in the UK, was a massive 'Head's Gone'.

    Yup, agreed :-).

    Yes, sure, I agree with that too.
  • Posts: 1,548
    RC7 wrote:
    LeChiffre wrote:
    Thunderball is classic Connery no doubt but I personally disagree that any of it's success is down to Mcclory.

    We're better than this guys. If we can prove what McClory did and didn't do then fine, otherwise I'd suggest we don't fuel the fire of hatred.


    OK. Agreed. "Never Say Kevin Again!"
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Sean's performance in Thunderball is my personal favorite. And I can safely say that Kevvy has nothing to do with how he was directed. I shudder to think what would have happened to the future of Bond should he have usurped control of the cinematic character. What we can say is that TB was a collective effort of ideas by Ian Fleming, Kevin McGlory, and Jack Whittingham, and McGlory's participation in the effort is clear. To my knowledge, that is all the courts ever affirmed, not specifically who contributed what to the story.

    "In 1958 Fleming approached McClory to produce the first Bond film. McClory rejected all of Fleming's books but felt that the character James Bond could be adapted for the screen. McClory, Bryce, Fleming and Jack Whittingham developed the new James Bond character through a number of treatments and screenplays. McClory, Fleming and Bryce settled on the screenplay Longitude 78 West (later renamed Thunderball) and went into pre-production."

    "On arriving in Nassau McClory searched for possible locations to shoot many of the key sequences of the film and used the home of a local millionaire couple, the Sullivans, for Largo's estate."

    If this is the case and 'Thunderball' was Flemings novelization of the final screenplay, then both McGlory and Fleming, together with Whittingham and Bryce, came up with SPECTRE and Blofeld :-). We don't know exactly which of the four person's screamed: "Let's call it SPECTRE and let the villain be called Blofeld!". Fact is, pure statistically McGlory was 25% of a group of four talented, creative people.

    Regarding McGlory's producer's credits.....before we start slamming down McGlory, can SOMEONE in here be the 'research journalist' and find out exactly what he did during production of 'Thunderball'?

    I'd gladly take on that assignment, sir. I'll report back to you when I get the answers!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Some choice quotes from the site James Page alluded to, Kevinmcclory.com (well I say 'site' it's basically just one page) written by one Morgan Fullam:

    'Before his collaboration with Ian Fleming, McClory was one of the most in demand young director-producers in Hollywood.' - You sure about that? Remind me again how much 'The Boy And The Bridge' made again?

    'Producer Mike Todd hired Kevin for Around the World in Eighty Days. The epic film took three years to make with Kevin directing the picture in Paris, Kuwait, Karachi, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Thailand, Hong Kong and Japan. When the film’s associate producer, Academy Award winning William Cameron Menzies (Gone With The Wind), developed cancer early on in the production, Kevin was promoted to replace him. The partnership was a great success and McClory quickly became Todd’s right hand man. In deference to the ailing Menzies, Todd asked Kevin to forgo his Associate Producer screen credit. Kevin agreed and in doing so passed up on one of the film’s five Oscars.' - Forwent his Oscar to give it to a bloke with cancer; that's our Kev. What a guy!

    'Kevin had been secretly seeing starlet Elizabeth Taylor for some time and following her divorce from Michael Wilding they were free to marry. Todd asked Kevin for an introduction and after a whirlwind courtship McClory was dumped.' - Oh no! What a rotten stroke of luck. Always the bridesmaid hey Kev?

    'McClory teamed up with John Steinbeck and Burgess Meredith to begin work on a story for the underwater film.' - Hello! This is a surprisingly candid admission. So the 'original' idea of an underwater action film which was pretty much all Kev brought to the table with Fleming and Whittingham might not have been his all along. Might then the Steinbeck and Meredith families have a claim on some of Kev's 'rights' then? It's a murky old business this intellectual property stuff isn't it Kev?

    'As Kevin was editing The Boy and the Bridge , Bryce brought his close friend Ian Fleming to view an early rough cut. Fleming’s literary star was waning' - This couplet is priceless. After 10 minutes of googling I can't find anywhere a single reference to any box office figures for The Boy And The Bridge so to claim Fleming's star was waning right after your own has just turned into a white dwarf seems a bit rich.

    'The Irishman told Fleming that none of the books were suited to the screen' - Cubby and Harry begged to differ and the box office for DN, FRWL and GF (not to mention the cinematic brilliance of OHMSS to come), which are all about 85% faithful to the source novels, would seem to concur.

    'McClory insisted that they do away with the prohibition on Bond having romantic relations on the job.' - So Bond trying his luck with Solitaire, Gala, Tiffany and Tania (albeit he was under orders there) before the job was done escaped Kev when he was reading Fleming's novels and deciding they were a load of old toss?
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 6,396
    This one is a real beauty:

    "In 1976 it emerged that Broccoli was to use much of Kevin’s property including SPECTRE and Blofeld in his next film The Spy Who Loved Me".

    Ok so we're all well aware McClory owned SPECTRE/Blofeld but what else of "Kevin's property" was Cubby planning on using? Anyone?

    Oh and this:

    "Despite Octopussy’s more favorable release date, it was no match for Never Say Never Again which was a box office smash and remains the better reviewed of the two films."

    =))

    Does Mr Morgan not realise OP took more money than NSNA and on a smaller budget?
  • I'm thinking Morgan has quite the vivid imagination. No doubt induced by huffing some vintage 1965 SPECTRE brand chloroform.
  • Posts: 6,396
    And you thought those cretins on DCINB were deluded tossers!
  • And you thought those cretins on DCINB were deluded tossers!

    They would probably laugh Morgan out of their room too ;)

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    This one is a real beauty:

    "In 1976 it emerged that Broccoli was to use much of Kevin’s property including SPECTRE and Blofeld in his next film The Spy Who Loved Me".

    Ok so we're all well aware McClory owned SPECTRE/Blofeld but what else of "Kevin's property" was Cubby planning on using? Anyone?

    Oh and this:

    "Despite Octopussy’s more favorable release date, it was no match for Never Say Never Again which was a box office smash and remains the better reviewed of the two films."

    =))

    Does Mr Morgan not realise OP took more money than NSNA and on a smaller budget?

    The OP box office one is the best. In Mcclory/Morgan work if you can't spin the facts in your favour just blatantly lie.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 6,396
    In between TB and NSNA, McClory only worked on Circasia (1975). No don't worry, I've never heard of it either!

    One film in nearly twenty years. So clearly McClory was a brilliant and sought after Producer just like Morgan claims...

    Perhaps if McClory wasn't so hell bent on trying to get a piece of something that didn't belong to him and used his "talent" to produce other films, maybe he could have been remembered for something other than just a bitter and jealous man.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Well, I think we've won this "pissing contest". I guess we "pissed on his parade". Now he's "pissed off" and won't return.

    Shame. We barely got to know each other. Did Kevvy suggest that line too?
  • Posts: 6,396
    Well, I think we've won this "pissing contest". I guess we "pissed on his parade". Now he's "pissed off" and won't return.

    Shame. We barely got to know each other. Did Kevvy suggest that line too?

    I'm sure he did. Probably also invented the gunbarrell too. That b***ard Binder must have nicked the idea off him. And he was all ready to hire that new Welsh singing sensation Shelley Bassell until EON came along with their imposter!
  • I do think, however, that TSWLM was done the way it was to compete and outflank any underwater themed movie from McClory. Even the Nobody Does it Better might have been about that... though I think the song writer had a different view. At that time Warhead was a prospect, and the Atlantis spider hideout and whole shenanigan did seem all about making Warhead a pointless prospect; even the bit where Bond has to worry about sinking the enemy vessel cos the gal is being held hostage there, that's from the last scenes of the Thunderball novel and is weaved into TSWLM.

    Just as NSNA probably helped make OP the better movie, so the unmade Warhead helped TSWLM raise its game.

    And I doubt that OHMSS would have been so great as Connery's 4th film, though at least it would make more sense having Bond and Blofeld not recognise each other. In some ways, TB might make more sense coming after OHMSS. Also, TB was slated as the first Bond movie and got bumped due to the screen problems, and I'm happy that Dr No was the first film, history went the right way.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 4,622
    I do think, however, that TSWLM was done the way it was to compete and outflank any underwater themed movie from McClory.
    Interesting that. I think there might be something there.
    I grew up loathing Kevin McClory, purely from a Bond fan's perspective. That is my beef with the man. He put his own money grubbing interests ahead of the Bond franchise. I am all for business people maxing profits, as that's what they should be doing, but there is also something to be said for artistic merit or even public demand, when it comes to entertainment properties.
    IMO there was nothing of any artistic or creative merit to be gleaned from milking the rights to TB beyond the release of the original film and the 10 year license sold to Eon beyond TB.
    McClory got fair due, with regards to his involvement with TB and that should have been the end of it.
    As a fan I loathe McClory for interfering in the plans to use Blofeld and Spectre in TSWLM.
    I think Spy would have been a much better film with Blofeld, rather than the limp Blofeld impersonator Stromberg. If McClory had attempted to renew the rights deal he had with Eon, that might have been an honorable approach, but I am not aware that he attempted any such thing. Rather it appears he wanted to hit a home run with another big Blofeld/TB Bond film of his own.
    McClory may have been exercising his legal right to Blofeld and Spectre yadda yadda, but he can't have it both ways. The fall out is that he is mostly universally loathed by Bond fandom. We resent the roadblocks he put in the way of the production company that had been very successfully driving the Bond movie franchise.
    McClory's attempts to continue to cash in on his rights with dubious projects and claims is infuriating to the fandom.
    What would have been more palatable from a fan's perspective, would have been if McClory had continued to work with Eon in licensing his limited rights to the broader franchise.
    This approach would have had artistic merit. IMO true artists put the art first, not the money. If you do things right, often the money follows anyway and in even greater amounts, than if crass commercial considerations had been given first priority.
    I am a huge Sean Connery fan, but I do not like the film NSNA. It's a limp Bond effort. Sean looked great, had his moments, but its a generally a flat effort by Sean in a flat Bond film. Flat that is, compared to what Eon was doing with the franchise. ie OP is a far superior Bond film than NSNA is IMO.
    Personally I would trade NSNA and wipe it from the record, for McClory continuing to have licensed his rights to Eon.
    In that sense, with the benefit of much hindsight, I'd trade NSNA and a less than thrilling performance from Sean for a TSWLM film featuring Blofeld and Spectre.
    McClory is rightly villified by fans, primarily for his post 1975 antics.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 2,015
    (...) So despite all the negativity surrounding McGlory -I do think the recent article on MI6's frontpage '10 Negative Ways Kevin McClory Affected The 007 Franchise' is actually insightful and quite good-, he clearly contributed to the Bond franchise. From a pure cinematic perspective, it is quite an interesting, almost soap-ish contribution.

    1) It's not surprising you have a better opinion of McClory than others here : after all, Never Say Never Again is a bit Gustav Graves preparing a James Bond movie in 1980/1981 :) "Budget is not a problem ! Take all the oscars-winning, oscar-nominees actors and technicians you can get, and I want the director of the most successful movie ever of this year".

    Indeed list the cast and the crew of NSNA, the number of nominations and wins at the time of the movie is impressive (even Skyfall has less overall). And Irvin Kershner had just done the Empire Strikes Back !

    Well, it turns out that stellar cast and stellar crew is not enough (even though I like a lot the beginning of the movie).

    2) I won't comment in deep the frontpage paper about McClory, I was involved in a James Bond fan club a long time ago and I know what it means to discuss publicly legal battles in this case :) I just would like to point out one very little part of this paper.

    "[Legal right and Sean Connery] were not enough to make this Bond movie a Bond movie. No gun barrel, no James Bond theme, (...)"

    Ah, remember, for months, we've kept reading by several posters here how anyone "needing" the gunbarrel and/or the Bond theme in a Bond movie was not really a Bond fan but rather some young stupid lazy moviegoer :) So talking about McClory creates some passion, but also seems to force some to finally remember Bond movies are also made of some iconic elements ! And now the iconic Blofeld is back as a possibility...

    3) OP benefited from NSNA ! The "Battle of the Bonds" was discussed quite a lot in the media... And both were very successful at the box office.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Thank goodness that this is one saga that can FINALLY be put to bed!!! <:-P
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,161
    Having rewatched NSNA recently, I can honestly say it's about time his 'property' was delivered to EON. McClory claimed he thought up Spectre and Blofeld, two iconic elements from the Bond mythology. But only two. What he got in return is preposterous! If anything, EON should have filed suit against him more often.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    After watching SPECTRE, I believe Blofeld and his organization shouldn't belong to EON.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    What I think happened is that Fleming, McClory, and Whittingham were "spitballing" ideas during the Thunderball scripting phase. It happens a lot. "Authorship" can be difficult to determine. It's a collaborative medium.

    But the Bond films became so successful that anyone who had even the smallest claim decided to sue and get a piece of the action. Note that people do not sue when films flop (which DN could easily have done).
  • Posts: 4,622
    @echo True.
    When TB script was dropped though, Fleming and his legal, with benefit of hindsight mind you, really should have got Kevin and Jack to sign off on his book. Just to be safe.
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