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Yes I agree. TSWLM doesn't go as far as MR in silliness (double taking pigeons, gondolas, Jaws falling in love, etc.) but certain key scenes are far more memorable in MR -
- the centrifuge scene (arguably one of the best scenes ever, probably the most Flemingesque moment, and the one time we genuinely feel scared for Bond in the Moore era)
- the PTS
- the cable car chase
- the giant snake in the pond/lake
- the dogs chasing in the forest
- Bond shooting down the sniper out of the tree
Add one of John Barry's best scores, and you can see why MR is highly thought of. For all its camp and silliness, there are genuinely serious moments too. I also think its Moore's best performance as Bond.
I agree. I love Barry's music and I'll adjust my previous comment to include Drax as a better villain, but I think that's about it. Moonraker is pretty naff otherwise, and I think Spy is the one that does most things better. I can't agree that there's too many serious moments in it, Corinne's death being the only one that immediately springs to mind - a legitimately great scene.
Granted, I've been fairly vocal about the Moore era not being my favourite, so perhaps my opinion is not up to much in this case.
Where are the serious moments in Spy then?
Both films make it clear they don´t want to be taken too seriously, that we should not overthink, look for much meaning or sense, just relax and enjoy the adventure. So which of the two do I enjoy the most if I feel like switching my brain off for an afternoon? I´d say they are pretty much neck and neck.
As someone else said before I think the space stuff is actually reasonably well done. It's Ken Adam's last Bond film. It actually looks quite good.
The long wait before Bond's parachute deploys, Anya reminding Bond his dead wife, Jaws's first couple of murders, Bond and Anya's confrontation after she learns what happened to her lover, the Liparus battle, removal of the timer from the nuke, the countdown to the subs firing, the execution of Stromberg.
You are certainly right that neither film wants to be taken dead seriously, but MR takes on more outlandishness and silliness than any Bond film can handle without capsizing. The centrifuge scene and death of whats-her-name are excellent and sober scenes, but they're dealt with in the film's first third.
Fully agreed.
The death of Fekesh? The shooting of Stromberg? The shark murder of Stromberg Secretary? The murder of the Scientists?
That's pretty much it for me. Also, I'm never keen on Bond movies laying a bit too heavily on scifi. And TSWLM was a tad too derivative, basically a rewritten YOLT.
In a sense YOLT- MR- DAD- SP had some great moments but failed as a whole. Still enjoyable though, depends on the mood.
What was the point of the Stromberg guards in the jeep? Did these guys really think they were about to make a turning point in the battle by charging at their opponents? And nothing like a handy flame thrower to deal with any pesky intruders who may dare to attack the control room.
That battle pales compared with YOLT's. Sure there are also machine guns, grenades and pistols, but accompanied by unforgettable shots of the ninjas descending from the top, the ninja swordsman going off, using throwing stars and other exotic weapons and Kissy actually contributing to the cause.
Now I will give TSWLM more credit in how they have to get to the control room and then stop the attack. Good suspense there. With YOLT it's defeating one guy, climbing some stairs and reaching an exploder button, which Blofeld explained with the patience and manner of a preschool teacher.
Good summary and I agree completely.
I will add that the mere fact that this is so obviously a copy of the volcano battle in YOLT down to basically every tiny detail, makes it even more dreary, predictable and dull.
I wonder what made Lewis Gilbert copy some things from YOLT exactly, like Bond arriving at the prison cells on the monorail.
Sure - I agree with that. It's the other hour and forty minutes of each movie that makes TSWLM >>>>>> YOLT.
+1
Wholeheartedly agree.
But at the same in the 1970s, Bond was associated with the Aston Martin DB5. The DB5 was always more elegant and sexy. The Espirit always struck me as being a more Playboy supercar. More in league with a Ferrari or a Lamborghini....
I suppose it suited Roger's interpretation of the character. A little more flash, flamboyant and ostentatious. Also, it's white! For those reasons, I kinda love it. It almost feels like a car a hip-hop car would want these days.
Plus it suits the Sardinian setting with those blue skies and oceans. It really brings to mind images of the jetset lifestyle of the 1970's.
I don't think it was, I might be wrong but Lotus hasn't ever really been a luxury brand like Aston or Ferrari, it's more of a racy one- five years before this they were selling road legal small racing cars in kit form that you build yourself. What really helped is that Lotus got Giugiaro to design the Esprit, and that made it pretty much the best and classiest-looking Lotus ever if you ask me. I think it made him seem more modern and up to date.
Isn't that a problem with all of the 'big battle' finales though?
True, but a lot of my comparison in this case was directly with YOLT's, which has more than just guys firing guns and tossing grenades. It's got the spectacular sight of the ninjas sliding down from the top; the ninjas with the swords, especially the guy who acts like a whirlwind knocking off the various guards; ninja throwing stars; a rocket launching pad in the background; and it's in a volcano, so the setting really adds to it all. To top it off, the pace is much quicker, it really moves and gets to the end, whereas TSWLM's doesn't so much.
I must admit that stuff leaves me a bit cold in both. You could say that Spy's has a bit more plot to it: they have to free the crews, obtain the missile detonator, blow the shutters etc. But yeah, I think neither are my favourite moment of either film.
I see folk wanting to see big battles at the end of more Bond films but I can really do without them.
It's funny, mtm. Whereas the big battle used to be the norm, now it has gone in the opposite direction of Bond and the girl against the villain and his minions for the finale, which made me long for a return to some of those instead.
I think it's safe to say the best part of a Bond film is the ride getting to the finale rather than the finale itself. Although the Craig era at least has done away with the traditional clinch with the girl and the cringey line.
Or actually, another one which I think has a really satisfying action climax? A View To A Kill. Absolutely nothing wrong with a fight on a massive bridge if you ask me! :)
LTK has the best climax of all the films in my opinion. Absolutely brilliant action and suspense! I am also a fan of the ending in FRWL. The action might not be incredible in isolation, but the concept of Bond having to face of a selection of obstacles of different kinds, demonstrating different skills as he goes along, is intriguing to me. The finale in FYEO also appeals to me. The mountain climbing element is such a unique feature and incredibly suspensefull. I definitely prefer these climaxes to the 'army vs army' scenarios, or even worse, god forbid, 'Bond with machine gun vs army' which we see in the Brosnan era.
I'll resort to this, Norwegian saying: "Tastes are a like your bottom: They're split." ;))
The finale in TND is by far my least favorite. It's absolutely horrible! #-o
Yeah, I get that. The stakes aren't that high....But it's just Bondian fun for me though.
Yeah, it's not my favourite movie but I can't argue with the ending at all. If I had to pick a fault it's maybe that Sanchez's end comes a bit quickly, but otherwise it's an amazing climax. It might well be the best one for my money too, I can't think of another one which tops it. Skyfall, perhaps: the whole film builds to it and it's gripping stuff.
Yeah I like that a lot, even if perhaps it feels like the defeat of Grant is the most important part. But it's all great, you're right.
Yes, agreed.
I guess, funnily enough, the last time we get a 'army vs army' ending is actually Tomorrow Never Dies: it's just that in this one Bond's allies never get out of their (model) boats!
I have a soft spot for it. Many refer to it as 'Machine Gun Bond' but it never impacts my enjoyment of it. It's a well-crafted sequence and to be honest, the bullets firing around are no less indulgent than similar sequences in similar Bond films like TSWLM and YOLT. Bond was an officer in the armed forces, after all. It works as an occasional tangent.
I rewatched TSWLM at the weekend and it certainly is Roger's best. I love his performances in his previous two films, but this feels like a natural peak for him. He was at his most comfortable here, and the film goes all out in its excesses and it is a blast to watch.
Yeah, TND has Picturesque Bondian stuffs....The female Countdown voice also adds a bit of a Sci-fi feel to it.
Definitely, TSWLM is Moore's Best, there is a more 'Man On A Mission' Demeanour in his performance.