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The WhatCulture James Bond Thread #6- 10 Best Bond Opening Titles

DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
edited January 2014 in Bond Movies Posts: 1,778
Greeting gents. It's good to be back.

WhatCulture.com is one of my favorite websites to visit for all things pop culture. Naturally they're huge Bond fans and have a vast library of Bond related lists and articles. That being the case, barring the moderator's permission, I'd to start a thread where every few days I'll post a new list. There are plenty of good ones.

#1) 10 iconic things we miss from the classic James Bond films.

http://whatculture.com/film/10-iconic-things-we-miss-from-classic-james-bond-films.php
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Comments

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,248
    Changed from news to Bond movies section.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Anybody?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited January 2014 Posts: 14,662
    10. Well firstly, I wouldn't consider an inaccurate countdown timer something I miss from the films. I find it more fascinating when the timing is spot-on, as it shows the brilliance of the editor. An example is when Rog' uses his watch detonator in Moonraker. Its display remains pretty much 'bang on time'.

    9. Yes, there has been a lack of decent henchmen/women in Craig's tenure. I don't think physical traits are needed to make a memorable one, but I miss them, and believe they can still be achieved with realism.

    8. Although we've already seen Craig up against dangerous creatures (scorpion/komodos- Skyfall) he is yet to take on one belonging to the villain. I think it would be cool to see Craig's version of Dr. No's tarantula/Moonraker's anaconda (actually a python) scene.

    7. I'm pretty satisfied with the current villains' schemes, but we could always do with an updated take on 'world domination'. I'm sure we'll see it in the near future.

    6. The lack of skiing in Craig's tenure gets mentioned a lot in the 'Bond24 wishlist' thread, and I agree. Whether it's actually skiing or something similar, Craig needs to get some snow on his suit. I'd like to see a snow mobile or snowcat chase.

    5. The quirky modes of transport are a staple of the Bond films- something I forgot about until just mentioned now- and I truly do miss them. The question is, what hasn't been done yet? I think there's room for some interesting aircraft. Maybe the villain holds his meetings on a massive <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Iwo_Jima_Osprey.jpg/481px-Iwo_Jima_Osprey.jpg">transverse rotor rotorcraft</a>, or Bond can get around in a <a href="http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/wingsuit-flying-1.jpg">flying wingsuit</a> or on a <a href="http://students.egfi-k12.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/waterscooter.jpg">waterscooter</a>.

    4. Giant lasers- I don't miss them, but they're definitely a minor element of the films which have been lacking since Die Another Day. If we are to see lasers in Craig's tenure, I'd like to think they'd be scaled down to a small size and used for information gathering.

    3. The in-jokes that break the fourth wall or become self-conscious such as Vijay playing the Bond theme- I get a very small bit of amusement out of them- but they don't belong in the Craig era. However, I'm all for *subtle* homages or references to previous films, such as in Quantum of solace, where Bond has a Universal Exports card with the name R. Sterling (a reference to his undercover name in The Spy Who Loved Me).

    2. Bond walking into M's office and knowing everything about every subject is unrealistic. Sure, he needs to be knowledgeable, but there are limits. This only really got annoying during Roger's tenure- the other Bonds at least showed moments of being uninformed.

    1. Expensive lairs seriously need to make comeback, provided they remain plausible. There are some great ideas for lairs in the Bond 'location thread'.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    Yes to all of the above,
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    I guess this subject really isn't catching on. We'll move on the something more specific.

    #2) 5 Reasons Goldeneye would've been better with Timothy Dalton

    As a kid I used to view GE as Pierce Brosnan's coming out party. And what a coming out party it was. But now as an adult I view Goldeneye more as what should've been a continuation of the James Bond 3rd movie tradition. GE should've been Dalton's Goldfinger, The Spy Who Loved Me and more than anything else Skyfall (both deal with a Bond who is a relic in a new world and a turncoat MI6 agent as a villain). And when you eliminate nostalgia and look at the film unbiasedly GE has alot more in common with The Living Daylights (cold war spy games) and License to Kill (Bond up against a villain who has personally wronged him) than anything in TND, TWINE, or DAD. In many ways GE is a hybrid or Dalton's two films and is a Timothy Dalton Bond film starring Pierce Brosnan. Anyhow check out these 5 points.

    All are valid points but I particularly agree with the theory that the advertising campaign in LTK is what really screwed Dalton over.

    http://whatculture.com/film/5-reasons-goldeneye-would-have-been-better-with-timothy-dalton.php
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    As much as I love GE as is, yes, it'd be better with Dalton, definitely. I pretty much agree with all of it. And Pierce STILL would have been able to make TND (his best Bond IMO).
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    chrisisall wrote:
    As much as I love GE as is, yes, it'd be better with Dalton, definitely. I pretty much agree with all of it. And Pierce STILL would have been able to make TND (his best Bond IMO).

    I recall an interview with Barbara Broccoli where she stated had Dalton returned he would've starred in at least one more Bond film after GE. I don't have a link. I heard from a poster on this site a long time ago but I doubt they would've recast the role after reintroducing Dalton as 007 after six and a half years.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2014 Posts: 17,823
    DoubleOhhSeven wrote:
    I recall an interview with Barbara Broccoli where she stated had Dalton returned he would've starred in at least one more Bond film after GE.
    Okay, if that's the case- if it's a choice between Dalton doing at least two more & never having Brosnan, then I must say that it all worked out for the best then. The thought of Dalton doing a TND or TWINE (to use the words of Henry Jones Sr.) is intolerable! Dalton was meant for tight, small Bonds, not blockbuster fun.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    chrisisall wrote:
    DoubleOhhSeven wrote:
    I recall an interview with Barbara Broccoli where she stated had Dalton returned he would've starred in at least one more Bond film after GE.
    Okay, if that's the case- if it's a choice between Dalton doing at least two more & never having Brosnan, then I must say that it all worked out for the best then. The thought of Dalton doing a TND or TWINE (to use the words of Henry Jones Sr.) is intolerable! Dalton was meant for tight, small Bonds, not blockbuster fun.

    He wouldn't have been in TWINE. GE and Bond 18. I doubt it would've been TND. They would've tailored it to fit Dalton's Bond.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    Ahhh, but we will never know, eh?
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,425
    As TND is my 'favourite' of the Brosnan era I have to say that I think Dalts could have handled it pretty well. Replace that awful American woman with Monica Belluci, as was originally intended, and give her a few scenes as Dalt's old flame - would have been amazing! TWINE and DAD were just awful and unredeamable by pretty much any one. GE and TND would have still not been great but would certainly have been improved by Dalt's presence. The whole GE story just makes a lot more sense with Dalton in the lead.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited January 2014 Posts: 16,357
    Getafix wrote:
    As TND is my 'favourite' of the Brosnan era I have I think Dalts could have handled it pretty well. Replace that awful American woman with Monica Belluci, as was originally intended, and give her a few scenes as Dalt's old flame - would have been amazing!

    As she was going to be Natalya originally, I wonder what TND would have been like with Dalts and Pam returning as the old flame.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Murdock wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    As TND is my 'favourite' of the Brosnan era I have I think Dalts could have handled it pretty well. Replace that awful American woman with Monica Belluci, as was originally intended, and give her a few scenes as Dalt's old flame - would have been amazing!

    As she was going to be Natalia originally, I wonder what TND would have been like with Dalts and Pam returning as the old flame.

    Seriously? I'd never heard that. I was not a huge fan of Pam, so would have prefered seeing Belluci come back in TND.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited January 2014 Posts: 16,357
    Getafix wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    As TND is my 'favourite' of the Brosnan era I have I think Dalts could have handled it pretty well. Replace that awful American woman with Monica Belluci, as was originally intended, and give her a few scenes as Dalt's old flame - would have been amazing!

    As she was going to be Natalia originally, I wonder what TND would have been like with Dalts and Pam returning as the old flame.

    Seriously? I'd never heard that. I was not a huge fan of Pam, so would have prefered seeing Belluci come back in TND.

    Yeah In the earliest script for TND IIRC, Natalya was originally going to be in place of Paris.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I see. Interesting. So Natalia was supposed to become Mrs Carver? Bit of an unusual continuity thing going on there - a potential precursor of CR and QoS.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    Getafix wrote:
    I see. Interesting. So Natalia was supposed to become Mrs Carver? Bit of an unusual continuity thing going on there - a potential precursor of CR and QoS.

    I'm glad it never happened though. Natalya is one of my favorite Bond girls. Seeing her killed off would break my heart. much like Tracy.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Murdock wrote:
    I'm glad it never happened though. Natalya is one of my favorite Bond girls. Seeing her killed off would break my heart. much like Tracy.
    I think that's exactly why it would have been better. We weren't invested enough in Paris to find her death heartbreaking like Bond did.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    pachazo wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    I'm glad it never happened though. Natalya is one of my favorite Bond girls. Seeing her killed off would break my heart. much like Tracy.
    I think that's exactly why it would have been better. We weren't invested enough in Paris to find her death heartbreaking like Bond did.

    Not only were we not invested but Teri Hatcher was so annoying alot of people were probably happy that she wouldn't have any more screen time. Natalya on the other hand was not only much more likable than the wooden Ms. Hatcher but we saw her go thru an entire adventure (a well received one at that) with Bond. An adventure where she actually helped Bond and was a useful alley rather than just standing around looking pretty. Her death would have been a bitter one to accept.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Yes, I think everyone was quite happy when Teri was done in.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    God Hatcher was bad in that film.

    "I made my bed...you don't sleep in it anymore"

    "No-one can protect me from him...not even you"

    "I told you he's a banker...I met him in Zurick"

    It didn't help that the character was very one note.

    By contrast I love Natalya. Having said that I'm glad she didn't die. Shame Jinx wasn't cast then come to think of it.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,425
    By contrast with Hatcher almost any one else would have been preferable.

    One of the worst bits of casting in the series' history.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    Natalya in TND would have brought much more gravitas to her death and would have improved the movie tremendously. Now about the OP, while I know Brosnan is a more limited actor, I don't think GE would have been better with Dalton overall. The meeting with Janus everybody mentions for instance works better with a younger looking Bond, someone who does not dominate Sean Bean in maturity or presence. With Dalton as Bond, Bean would have come off as an angry teenager, not someone who could get the upper hand against 007.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Ludovico wrote:
    Natalya in TND would have brought much more gravitas to her death and would have improved the movie tremendously. Now about the OP, while I know Brosnan is a more limited actor, I don't think GE would have been better with Dalton overall. The meeting with Janus everybody mentions for instance works better with a younger looking Bond, someone who does not dominate Sean Bean in maturity or presence. With Dalton as Bond, Bean would have come off as an angry teenager, not someone who could get the upper hand against 007.

    Easily solved - recast Janus. I mean, Sean Bean with a dodgy posh accent as the main Bond villain - has to be a low-point in the series.

    The scene that actually comes to mind for me is the initial meeting between Bond and M/Dench. That would have worked much better with a slightly older Dalton. And since I'm on the fantasy recasting bandwagon, let's ditch Dench and bring in Mirren or even Vanessa Redgrave? The chemistry would have been fantastic.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    Yes but now you have a completely different movie. Would GE as it was written, cast and shot have been better with the sole difference of having Dalton? I don't think so.

    As for Sean Bean, he is a fine actor but was too young for his background. But he was well suited against Brosnan, much more than he would have been against Dalton. Unless he plays a henchman to a more seasoned villain. But then again it becomes a different movie.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    If Dalts had quit worrying about his hair and gone for this kind of look, he would've been better, and I agree GE would have worked for him. Brosnan was still a little unsure of himself in that film.
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSftLiM9har6B0dDbXN9eYsPjoecmdYT93SusEO1voPmIOqbaWL
    Short hair suits him
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Dalton was an idiot for turning down the opportunity to do a third film. He has done practically nothing of consequence since. For me it's a funny paradox that while I much prefer Dalton as Bond, I much prefer Brosnan the man. Dalton comes across in interviews as taking himself a bit too seriously for my liking. As a consequence he handled his career pretty poorly IMO. Turning down Bond once was bad enough, but the two or three times he is reported as having said no reflects badly on him - it's not as if he was inundated with top notch work. Had he done three or four Bonds he would have cemented himself in people's minds as one of the main Bond actors and could have used it as a spring board to other high profile work as Pierce has done. But look where he ended up - nowhere, frankly. I am glad Dalton showed the character the respect and seriousness that he did, but he should never have walked away in 94.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    In the end he did it his way and I respect him for that. I know that the Daltonites would have loved more Bond films from him but at least you never had to experience your favorite actor being too old or too fat for the role. Or have to watch him give an uninspired performance. Dalton will always be Bond in his prime and that's pretty awesome when you think about it.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    pachazo wrote:
    In the end he did it his way and I respect him for that. I know that the Daltonites would have loved more Bond films from him but at least you never had to experience your favorite actor being too old or too fat for the role. Or have to watch him give an uninspired performance. Dalton will always be Bond in his prime and that's pretty awesome when you think about it.

    True, although I think he was a long way from being past it in 94/95.
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    As far as I know, opinions differ, whether or not he was made to leave or not, but even if HE was the one quitting, I can understannd that. Lets say, you ARE doing something in front of an audience and you know by the applause, you are not really connecting. Would you care to go on? I believe there is a little thing called pride plus the financial aspect of those films.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2014 Posts: 11,425
    I think you'll find opinions differ on a great number of things, including your precious DC, but if pride is a factor in these things then Moore should have walked after TMWTGG and Brosnan would have been quite justified in jumping off a high ledge after DAD - instead he was most definitely pushed. According to some on here QoS is one of the worst Bond films ever made - should Craig have thrown in the towel in 2008?

    You've already said you think Dalton was the worst Bond, but you only have to look at most people's rankings on this site to see that for many fans he's up there as one of the best.

    I don't normally defer to IMDB, but since popularity contests seem to carry such weight with you, you might want to consider that TLD is ranked above TND, TWINE, DAD and QoS. So on this basis, given that those films were all big commercial successes that 'connected' with audiences, surely Dalton must have been doing something right?

    So LTK divides opinions. It is ranked (incorrectly IMO) as one of the best in the series by some and reviled by others. And on IMDB, it is still ranked more highly than Brosnan's last 3 films.

    Isn't it time you learned to love the Daltonator?
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