The WhatCulture James Bond Thread #6- 10 Best Bond Opening Titles

124

Comments

  • Fair enough. I gave my opinion (this is a message board last time I checked). And my opinion is that GE is a movie that relies on nostalgia and troupes to be successful. While CR is a movie that isn't afraid to tell a deeper story.

    @TheLivingRoyale It doesn't matter what spin you put on it, every Brosnan Bond film after GE was not particularly praised. They all got mixed to negative reviews. That's not an opinion, its fact. That's what I meant by 1-3.
  • Posts: 15,117
    chrisisall wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    The thing is Dalton would have been a bit too imposing against Sean Bean in many scenes, including and especially the monument graveyard scene.
    So they could have given Bean a make-up job so he'd be a bit older.

    It isn't so much Bean's age (although his character should have been and looked older) as his presence, something makeup does not bring. Opposite to Dalton, at the time, he wouldn't have been imposing enough. He was right for Brosnan though, one example of an actor's shortcoming that actually serves him.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    My input.

    Nostalga aside GE is a lot of fun and a consistently enjoyable entry for me. The cast are very good and there's some terrific action. But it's flawed. Some of its underwritten and Broz is awkward and self-conscious at times.

    CR is the all round better film and Bond film. It's better directed by Campbell (there aren't any shots of actors reading cards offscreen), more colourful and Craig outclassed Brosnan's debut performance.

    Brosnan is still the face that often comes to mind for me when I think of Bond. Similarly when I see him in other films I usually think of James Bond. I grew up with him and will always have a bit of love for him, but it is pretty much a fact that with Craig they are trying harder to make more fully rounded films complete with proper characters rather than just bombastic action films with eye candy for teenagers.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    My input.

    Nostalga aside GE is a lot of fun and a consistently enjoyable entry for me. The cast are very good and there's some terrific action. But it's flawed. Some of its underwritten and Broz is awkward and self-conscious at times.

    CR is the all round better film and Bond film. It's better directed by Campbell (there aren't any shots of actors reading cards offscreen), more colourful and Craig outclassed Brosnan's debut performance.

    Brosnan is still the face that often comes to mind for me when I think of Bond. Similarly when I see him in other films I usually think of James Bond. I grew up with him and will always have a bit of love for him, but it is pretty much a fact that with Craig they are trying harder to make more fully rounded films complete with proper characters rather than just bombastic action films with eye candy for teenagers.

    Well said. I'm not criticizing Brosnan the man, although I do believe he acted childishly in interviews after his contract was not renewed, but rather the Brosnan Era and him as Bond.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I enjoyed him as Bond and still do...but the Craig era has exposed the weaknesses of Brosnan's era.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    We'll move on to a new topic. Any 50 plus year old franchise is going to have it's share of moments that either haven't aged well or puzzle us. That being the case I give you,

    4) The 10 most awkward scenes in James Bond films

    http://whatculture.com/film/10-awkward-scenes-james-bond-films.php

    Number 3 gets my vote. AVTAK was either the 4th or 5th Bond film I ever saw. At that point I'd just discovered Bond and Roger Moore had become my new hero. His age didn't matter. Either way this scene came up my jaw hit the floor. Why was Bond so readily and happily jumping in the sack with arguably the most frightening Bond henchman or henchman in history? It's just something that should've never seemed like a good idea.

    This pretty much sums up my feelings.

    "Nothing about this sequence is right. Nothing about it should have been allowed to reach celluloid. There was no Bond fan on Earth who wanted to see Grace Jones manhandle a tired Roger Moore. There was no human being on Earth who wanted to see Grace Jones manhandle a tired Roger Moore. Awkward? This moment practically redefines the word".
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2014 Posts: 17,795
    I think that GE is a great Bond movie and that Brosnan's track record is 3-1 but what do I know? I'm not a real fan (because I happen to like films and an actor that you didn't).
    Guess I'm not a real fan either because I totally agree here @thelivingroyale.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    chrisisall wrote:
    I think that GE is a great Bond movie and that Brosnan's track record is 3-1 but what do I know? I'm not a real fan (because I happen to like films and an actor that you didn't).
    Guess I'm not a real fan either because I totally agree here @thelivingroyale.

    Are we still on this? I explained myself twice a couple days ago. If you want to keep discussing it be my guest but as a wise man once said,

    "I'm not dwelling on the past. I don't think you should either".
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited January 2014 Posts: 4,516
    RE: #1) 10 iconic things we miss from the classic James Bond films.
    http://whatculture.com/film/10-iconic-things-we-miss-from-classic-james-bond-films.php

    Playing with the number of his name, is something there should not do the whole time.
    I think Adele song are used on smart way,include the reference to Goldeneye.

    Not realy a big fan of Elvis, but atleast there try and i must say Silva have mabey to much Hechman on that Island, whyle if Macau 1-2 have more have been nice. Postive point of CR be that Villiers have a woman.

    Villainous Ambition. I think we get it slow back. I have a litle bit idea what Mr White/ Quantum whant. If there be one thing Skyfall not faild it be clear what Silva whant besides take revenge on M.

    It be nice if Daniel Craig get Ski scene/Snow, other things are more inportent and based how it is done.

    I whas happy Astin Martin be destroyd in QOS. So i agree, why alsways a car. Yes Bond should get trouble to get in somewhere or not get out the easy way.

    Impossibly Expensive Lairs. Peter Lamont Ice Palace be a nice try, but the last one before skyfall house that realy be used very well be satelite in GE.

    What i mis the moost be more varition in locations / culture in Bond movies. I also count under this the extra Bond girl in QOS and in Skyfall. Personaly i wish Bond be on that beach with her in Skyfall insteed of her home or get longer walk scene's on that beach.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    Alright I can see these lists are pretty hit-and-miss. Well if there's one thing that gets people talking on these boards (except Margaret Thatcher) it's the proto-Craig himself, Timothy Dalton. I've always found LTK to be a fascinating and invaluable entry into the Bond series. It's reputation as the "violent Bond film" along with the fact that it stands as a hybrid of James Bond, Miami Vice, and late 1980s action films like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon (all of which I love) has given a certain uniqueness to it. It's actually rather well liked by a couple of people I know that don't like most Bond films and has garnered a bit of a cult following. And for good reason. It doesn't nearly get the recognition it deserves. That being the case,

    5) 5 Reasons Why LTK is Actually a Great Bond Film

    http://whatculture.com/film/5-reasons-licence-kill-actually-great-bond-film.php
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I'll add my two cents. It's no surprise to me that I disagree with most of this list because I do not consider LTK to be a great Bond film. Before I raise the ire of the Daltonites, let me point out that I don't find Tim's performance to be the reason for the film being such a disappointment for me.

    5) I don't like Kamen's score. I find it to be rather bland and generic. It's Die Hard with the Bond theme thrown in. I also disagree with the author's point of it being one of the few non Barry scores that worked. Is he referring to just pre LTK or the whole series? I thought LALD and TSWLM worked very well. I'm certainly in the minority but I even liked the score for FYEO. I have mixed feelings about Arnold but I don't consider any of his offerings to be an outright failure.

    4) Carey Lowell certainly had the looks but I find her performance to be mediocre at best. At times she was downright awkward. She came off as tougher than her predecessors but in the end I don't find her to be any different from some of the other poor actresses that got the job because of their beauty.

    3) Besides the jet skiing scene I really don't find any of the action sequences to be "spectacular". I think that the tanker truck sequence is among the most overrated in the history of the series. It feels rather gimmicky, almost as if they were trying to see how many cool things they could do with a semi. Compared with the truck sequence in Raiders it falls completely flat.

    2) Now this is one that I agree with. Robert Davi gave an inspired performance.

    1) I'm not sure that this is Fleming's Bond. Dalton gave a good performance with what he had to work with but I don't like where the writers were going with this. I just can't see Fleming's Bond quitting his job to go on a murderous rampage all in the name of vengeance for Felix Leiter, of all people. I know that some members here have theorized that the death of Della reminded him of Tracy and that's what really pushed him over the edge but I just don't buy it.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2014 Posts: 17,795
    pachazo wrote:
    5) I don't like Kamen's score. I find it to be rather bland and generic. It's Die Hard with the Bond theme thrown in.
    I like the score, but I had to learn to like it. A Barry score would have mostly killed the "This doesn't feel like a Bond movie" criticisms. Kamen's music was so common to action films of the 80's how could it NOT give people an unappreciated 'Americanized' feel to the film?

    Other than that, I love the film.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Is LTK the most controversial Bond film of all time now that OHMSS is regarded as one of the best by many Bond fans? It certainly is an opinion divider although it seems that more people praise it now than they did in 1989.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    pachazo wrote:
    Is LTK the most controversial Bond film of all time now that OHMSS is regarded as one of the best by many Bond fans?

    HHmmmm,
    Tim fans love it.
    A lot of Moore fan think it's too violent.
    Fleming fans either love it or hate it.
    Connery & Lazenby fans like it.
    Craig fans like it a lot.
    Americans like it a bit more than Brits.

    Just my take here. Yeah, I'd say it the most divisive at the moment.
  • 5. I think the score is okay. It's not my favourite, but it does what it needs to do.
    4. Pam is a great Bond girl IMO, third from best (behind Vesper and Tracy, don't think anyone will ever beat those two for me)
    3. The action sequences weren't quite as good as the previous entry in the series, but the tanker chase stood out and the PTS was memorable as well.
    2. Best Villain, full stop.
    1. I'd say TLD is probably closer to the Fleming formula than LTK, but LTK is still closer than basically every film aside from TLD since FRWL.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    It's a decent flick but not one of the true greats IMO. It does feel more 80sthriller than Bond film at times and I think that, on the whole, TLD holds up better than this (Dalton has even said he prefers that film overall). Probably the cheap look LTK has doesn't help. However the film has several notable plus points including Davi, Del-toro and Lowell who make up for the lesser performances.

    Dalton is good but I prefer him in TLD overall I think.

    The story, despite its occasionally generic feel, is compelling for the most part. However the end is something of a disappointment. I sometimes wonder if it would have been more effective to end the film after Pam picks Bond up and drives away in the tanker.

    A solid 7/10 film but not anymore than that.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited January 2014 Posts: 4,516
    Source of things i like from QOS locations and production design is LTK. Bond girl with balls (Pam). Same Felix as LALD, great openings and Q get more screentime like as in MR. There try to make Dalton FYEO/TMWTGG with more violence, drugs and the end iam not fan from. This be a movie that must grow on you.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    5) Michael Kamen's Unique Score
    4) A Tough Bond Girl
    3) Spectacular Action Sequences
    2) A Believable Villain
    1) An authentic "Ian Fleming" James Bond


    Though I prefer The Living Daylights for it's class, it is still nice to see my 2nd favourite Bond film get the appreciation that it deserves. For what it's worth, I think Dalton perfectly captured the literary Bond in The Living Daylights. Licence To Kill goes somewhere beyond Fleming.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Though I prefer The Living Daylights for it's class, it is still nice to see my 2nd favourite Bond film get the appreciation that it deserves. For what it's worth, I think Dalton perfectly captured the literary Bond in The Living Daylights. Licence To Kill goes somewhere beyond Fleming.

    In a series where 'somewhere beyond Fleming' can mean Bond in space, I'm perfectly fine with Tim's version of it. :))
    Now if I could just make a version of LTK with the score from DAF replacing Kamen's, it would be my #1 instead of #2... ;)
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    chrisisall wrote:
    Now if I could just make a version of LTK with the score from DAF replacing Kamen's, it would be my #1 instead of #2... ;)
    LTK with the DAF score? Fascinating. Sign me up. I want to see it now too!
  • Posts: 1,052
    I love LTK, I don't buy into a lot of the usual criticisms thrown at it! Dalton is great, Pam is great, Sanchez is a quality villian, what's not to like?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    pachazo wrote:
    Is LTK the most controversial Bond film of all time now that OHMSS is regarded as one of the best by many Bond fans? It certainly is an opinion divider although it seems that more people praise it now than they did in 1989.

    Along with YOLT, LALD, FYEO and OP, it certainly divides opinion around here. One of those films a great deal of fans either love or hate. Top 10 for me.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    5) This I agree with more than anything else on the list. I'll even commit sacrilege and say I enjoyed Kamen's score for LTK more than Barry's for TLD. There's something so visceral and intense about the score for LTK that completely matches and compliments Dalton's portrayal. There are tracks, such as "License Revoked" that just punch you right in the face. Kamen's work stands as my favorite non-Barry James Bond score.

    4) Going to have to disagree with this one. Lowell's performance is just too bland and wooden for me to consider her special. Dalton certainly got the short end of the stick when it came to leading ladies. I'd say he was the only Bond to never get a good actress to work with.

    3) Defiantly agree. Not only is the tanker chase great but the entire underwater wave crest sequence is what I consider the best underwater action scene in the entire Bond series (not counting the Lotus from TSWLM as Bond himself isn't underwater). Those in Thunderball, FYEO, TND just dragged on and became redundant and boring.

    2) Again I totally agree with this point. They really made up for Dalton's lack of good villains in TLD with Sanchez. Davi's inspiration from Casino Royale of Le Chiffre and Bond being "mirror images" of one another was an inspired direction to go in. Sanchez almost comes off as the evil hispanic 007.

    1) Yes and No. Up until Daniel Craig I believed Dalton was the closest interpretation of Fleming's Bond. However I think they went too far with his disheveled look. It's funny in TLD I think Dalton was a bit too light-hearted and jokey and LTK I thought he was too serious at times. Maybe a perfect balance would've been reached with Dalton's 3rd film.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Dalton certainly got the short end of the stick when it came to leading ladies. I'd say he was the only Bond to never get a good actress to work with.
    Maryam d'Abo wasn't bad. At least the two of them had good chemistry together. I will certainly say that Dalton never had an actress of his caliber to work with though. He only got two films and them's the breaks. That Lazenby guy really lucked out.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    pachazo wrote:
    Dalton certainly got the short end of the stick when it came to leading ladies. I'd say he was the only Bond to never get a good actress to work with.
    Maryam d'Abo wasn't bad. At least the two of them had good chemistry together. I will certainly say that Dalton never had an actress of his caliber to work with though. He only got two films and them's the breaks. That Lazenby guy really lucked out.

    I know d'Abo has her fans but I never saw much in her. At her best she was mediocre/passable, at her worst he looked she didn't belong on screen with Dalton. Every other Bond had either a talented leading lady or at least a very memorable Bond girl (one who might not have been a great actress but made a big impression).

    Connery- Ursula Andress, Honor Blackman
    Lazenby- Diana Rigg
    Moore- Jane Seymor, Maud Adams (I thought she did a great job)
    Brosnan- Isabella Scorupco, Sophie Marceau
    Craig- Eva Green (Maybe the best actress to be a Bond leading lady since Rigg)
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I think Lowell is one of the stronger actresses in the film. I like the look she gives Bond when she's adjusting her skirt in the hotel elevator and overall I think she's fairly believable as a "Bond equal". My main issue is that they sometimes give her some dodgy material (i.e. her jealousy and immature reaction when she realises Bond slept with Lupe as well as her remark of not having a cigarette for 5 years, which feels like a contribution from the anti-smoking campaigners).

    Personally I wouldn't say she was wooden at all.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    Lowell, like d'Abo, is capable at times but ultimately forgettable when one looks at the whole catalogue of Bond girls. Whenever I see a website or magazine rank their favorite Bond girls Dalton's leading ladies are nowhere in sight.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Personally I wouldn't say she was wooden at all.

    Thank you. THANK YOU, sir! =D>
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Lowell, like d'Abo, is capable at times but ultimately forgettable when one looks at the whole catalogue of Bond girls. Whenever I see a website or magazine rank their favorite Bond girls Dalton's leading ladies are nowhere in sight.

    Yes I'll give you that, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's not affective in the film.
Sign In or Register to comment.