Fleming titles: what's all the fuss about?

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  • RC7RC7
    edited February 2014 Posts: 10,512
    Risico007 wrote:
    the problem is even the original titles try and sound flemingesque so Why not just go for something fleming?

    Because the title should be appropriate to the film. There's no point shoe-horning in a Fleming phrase or chapter title when you can have a title which suggests some relevance to the picture while maintaining an essence of Fleming. To be fair, SF is the first original title they've nailed and I'm hoping they do something similar next time. As has been said above, 'Tomorrow Never Lies' would have beaten SF to it if they hadn't dropped the ball in the way they did.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Risico007 wrote:
    the problem is even the original titles try and sound flemingesque so Why not just go for something fleming?

    Exactly. I say use a title that sounds Flemingesque and of course fits the story, if it is directly from Fleming, then all the better.
  • Posts: 9,846
    RC7 wrote:
    Risico007 wrote:
    the problem is even the original titles try and sound flemingesque so Why not just go for something fleming?

    Because the title should be appropriate to the film. There's no point shoe-horning in a Fleming phrase or chapter title when you can have a title which suggests some relevance to the picture while maintaining an essence of Fleming. To be fair, SF is the first original title they've nailed and I'm hoping they do something similar next time. As has been said above, 'Tomorrow Never Lies' would have beaten SF to it if they hadn't dropped the ball in the way they did.

    So if for argument sake Logan creates a character Alberto Risico we can use that title right?
  • Posts: 3,327
    I like Colonel Sun as a title, which is probably the closest novel we have to Fleming's work, but as many have said countless times on here, there is still plenty of unused (and very good) Fleming material left untapped yet before they start resorting to novels outside of Fleming.

    As for Fleming titles, Risico is probably the best, although a chapter title like `Magic 44' could work too.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I like Colonel Sun as a title, which is probably the closest novel we have to Fleming's work, but as many have said countless times on here, there is still plenty of unused (and very good) Fleming material left untapped yet before they start resorting to novels outside of Fleming.

    As for Fleming titles, Risico is probably the best, although a chapter title like `Magic 44' could work too.

    What about "Death for Breakfast"? ;)
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited February 2014 Posts: 3,157
    They should chose the title from the story, not write the story based on the title.
    If they can find a Fleming title which fits the story and does feel forced, then they should use it. But if they call the movie "A whisper of hate" - no matter what the scrupt is, or even before writing the script - just for the sake of using a Fleming title, then they better avoid it.
  • Pajan005Pajan005 Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 432
    I think Risico is the best way to go with future installments.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Walecs wrote:
    They should chose the title from the story, not write the story based on the title.
    If they can find a Fleming title which fits the story and does feel forced, then they should use it. But if they call the movie "A whisper of hate" - no matter what the scrupt is, or even before writing the script - just for the sake of using a Fleming title, then they better avoid it.

    on principle I agree with you, but sometimes authors find the story after the title, it is one way to be inspired. If I'm not wrong it was also sometimes the case of Fleming himself.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Ludovico wrote:
    on principle I agree with you, but sometimes authors find the story after the title, it is one way to be inspired. If I'm not wrong it was also sometimes the case of Fleming himself.

    You're right, and there's nothing bad about it as long as it doesn't feel forced.
  • Posts: 2,341
    Pajan005 wrote:
    I think Risico is the best way to go with future installments.

    Risico is out since they used elements of that story in the 1981 film, FYEO.
    Parts of Property of a Lady were used in OP.

    There were only like 13 books and about 5-7 short stories. After 23 films they have used up all the titles. So why not just keep making their own?
    TLD and FYEO were based on short stories.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,355
    They've used the elements but not the titles. I wouldn't bet against them being used one day.
  • Pajan005Pajan005 Stockholm, Sweden
    edited February 2014 Posts: 432
    QoS wasn't based on the short story was it?
  • Posts: 15,117
    Pajan005 wrote:
    QoS wasn't based on the short story was it?

    I have read somewhere here that they wanted to include an abridge version of it in the movie, when Mathis talks to Bond in the plane. It would have been perfect there, and made the title way more relevant.

    Interestingly enough, there is a good deal of The Hildebrand Rarity that could be used in a film.
  • Pajan005Pajan005 Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 432
    What does the name "Hildebrand" refer to? I never read the short stories.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Pajan005 wrote:
    What does the name "Hildebrand" refer to? I never read the short stories.

    The Hildebrand rarity is a rare sort of fish. The story has nothing to do with espionage, but there is plenty of death and drama that could be adapted in a movie. So could the fish and the title.
  • Ludovico wrote:
    Interestingly enough, there is a good deal of The Hildebrand Rarity that could be used in a film.

    from what I saw, they pretty much covered the Hildebrand Rarity in LTK
  • Posts: 15,117
    Not really. Milton Krest is a very different character in the short story and there is no... Hildebrand rarity in.LTK. there's a lot still to adapt, including of course the title.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 1,778
    Ludovico wrote:
    Not really. Milton Krest is a very different character in the short story and there is no... Hildebrand rarity in.LTK. there's a lot still to adapt, including of course the title.

    Right. As far as I know they only aspects from The Hildebrand Rarity that made it into LTK are the name Milton Krest, the Wavekrest, and a man beating his lover with a stingray tail. I'm not sure there's much that could be adapted into a film. The whole story Bond is on vacation.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Make the fish a MacGuffin. Have the villain be motivated by it the same way Blofeld wants to become comte de Bleuville. That could be his Achilles heel. That's more than enough to trigger a story.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Ludovico wrote:
    Make the fish a MacGuffin. Have the villain be motivated by it the same way Blofeld wants to become comte de Bleuville. That could be his Achilles heel. That's more than enough to trigger a story.

    This.
  • Posts: 367
    I've said before that John Gardner has some great book titles and chapter titles that can be used for films.

    'The Hildebrand Rarity' is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,355
    I can't see ever see a John Gardner book title being used personally, despite some being very good EON would rather create their own and with only three Fleming titles left, of course we are now scraping the bottom of the barrel.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 316
    Ludovico wrote:
    Not really. Milton Krest is a very different character in the short story and there is no... Hildebrand rarity in.LTK. there's a lot still to adapt, including of course the title.

    Right. As far as I know they only aspects from The Hildebrand Rarity that made it into LTK are the name Milton Krest, the Wavekrest, and a man beating his lover with a stingray tail. I'm not sure there's much that could be adapted into a film. The whole story Bond is on vacation.

    not much that could transition well to film, i meant.

    and I kinda got the same vibe from the movie Krest and the story Krest, especially in the scene with him and Lupe on the boat
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Pajan005 wrote:
    I think all those titles with the words "Die" or "Kill" are too easy to use.

    It has been a little overkill with those, havent it?
    Still, would love for a Bond film to be called DEATH TO SPIES.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 1,778
    Pajan005 wrote:
    I think all those titles with the words "Die" or "Kill" are too easy to use.

    It has been a little overkill with those, havent it?
    Still, would love for a Bond film to be called DEATH TO SPIES.

    Those have definately been overused. It's almost become a parody in of itself. The worst was Tomorrow Never Dies and Die Another Day being released only 5 years apart from one another. I can't tell you have many people I've met who always mix those two up. Tomorrow Never Dies Another Day or Die Another Day Tomorrow. Skyfall gets my vote as the best original title EON has come up with. It has a Flemingesque sound to it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    And AVTAK and LTK just four years apart. Yes, SF is definitely the best original title so far.
  • Pajan005Pajan005 Stockholm, Sweden
    edited February 2014 Posts: 432
    AVTAK's original title was going to be From a View to Kill. I wonder why they took out the word "From".
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    And AVTAK and LTK just four years apart. Yes, SF is definitely the best original title so far.

    AVTAK is a great title imo. LTK is simply lazy, they should've ignored the bloody yanks and gone with Revoked. SF definitely gets the best original title accolade for me, too.
  • Pajan005Pajan005 Stockholm, Sweden
    edited February 2014 Posts: 432
    I also agree with SF. I also like GE, which pays homage to Fleming.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    RC7 wrote:
    And AVTAK and LTK just four years apart. Yes, SF is definitely the best original title so far.

    AVTAK is a great title imo. LTK is simply lazy, they should've ignored the bloody yanks and gone with Revoked. SF definitely gets the best original title accolade for me, too.

    Maybe its just me but isn't the phrase "Licence Revoked" somewhat American? I've never heard the phrase here and I'm British.

    I'm just looking it up online. Seems I'm wrong :-S
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