Which bit undermines an otherwise good film...

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  • edited February 2014 Posts: 2,189
    I've always been bothered by the fact that my father only remembers OHMSS as the film where Bond cries at the end. As a result he wrights off the whole movie and George's performance, both of which I have always healed in high regard...
  • Posts: 15,235
    Another thing that doesn't make sense is that Blofeld and Bond don't recognize each other in OHMSS, despite the fact that they had just met in YOLT (both characters were played by different actors, of course).

    I always explained it like this: Blofeld we know already had plastic surgery, while Bond when he met Blofeld in YOLT still had some Japanese makeup (okay, not in the movie, but that is minimal retcon). In the novel YOLT, Blofeld did not recognised Bond immediately, it is important to remember.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote:
    Another thing that doesn't make sense is that Blofeld and Bond don't recognize each other in OHMSS, despite the fact that they had just met in YOLT (both characters were played by different actors, of course).

    I always explained it like this: Blofeld we know already had plastic surgery, while Bond when he met Blofeld in YOLT still had some Japanese makeup (okay, not in the movie, but that is minimal retcon). In the novel YOLT, Blofeld did not recognised Bond immediately, it is important to remember.

    I always got the impression that casting Lazenby shifted the whole narrative away from the Connery era? There's no real effort to remain consistent in any films prior to CR. I don't ever get too distressed about continuity in the films. To me they're all primarily standalone, it just so happens a few contain references, mostly for fun and not for narrative consistency or continuity. I don't even think of FYEO featuring Blofeld, it's almost a parody of itself. I've never craved the canonical cohesion that others seem to be obsessed by. Maybe I'm alone in that.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,356
    I agree with you @RC7. I see it as a film referring to Bond's actions of the past, spent chasing down Blofeld we didn't see. The fascination with linking these films died dead in the water with On Her Majesty's Secret Service and can't possibly happen due to the ever increasing number of films. I too, don't get why some people insist upon it.
  • Posts: 15,235
    Yet OHMSS spends a good deal of efforts, in the PTS and office scene, to link the movie with the previous ones. I do not see it as a standalone at all.
  • Ludovico wrote:
    Yet OHMSS spends a good deal of efforts, in the PTS and office scene, to link the movie with the previous ones. I do not see it as a standalone at all.

    The films, at least from the Connery to Dalton-eras do seem to make up a consistent universe and timeline, although there are some inconsistencies, i.e., Blofeld and Bond don't recognize each other in OHMSS, Bond goes from being in his late 30s, to his late 20s, to his early 40s, from his late 50s to early 40s, etc.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think OHMSS is very much a standalone film as well as a Bond film. It's almost too good to be part of the Bond cannon. Yes there are links to the other films but the love story is certainly unique.
  • Ludovico wrote:
    Another thing that doesn't make sense is that Blofeld and Bond don't recognize each other in OHMSS, despite the fact that they had just met in YOLT (both characters were played by different actors, of course).

    I always explained it like this: Blofeld we know already had plastic surgery, while Bond when he met Blofeld in YOLT still had some Japanese makeup (okay, not in the movie, but that is minimal retcon). In the novel YOLT, Blofeld did not recognised Bond immediately, it is important to remember.

    I can understand Bond not recognizing Blofeld, but Blofeld should have recognized Bond. A Gretcho Marx glasses and nose would have been more convincing than that "Japanese disguise."

    You are right about the book, but that doesn't explain the inconsistency in the film.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    It may do. They wanted to film the book as written.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Samuel001 wrote:
    It may do. They wanted to film the book as written.

    That's it. I don't really see why some try and dig further into it. Actually thats one reason why I think Majestys in many ways works better as a stand alone film.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 381
    Samuel001 wrote:
    It may do. They wanted to film the book as written.

    The film OHMSS follows YOLT, but in the novels it's the other way around. Blofeld should have recognized Bond in the OHMSS film.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,356
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    It may do. They wanted to film the book as written.

    That's it. I don't really see why some try and dig further into it. Actually thats one reason why I think Majestys in many ways works better as a stand alone film.

    With this kind of respect to the source you wonder what Hunt and Lazenby would have gone on to do next.
    Samuel001 wrote:
    It may do. They wanted to film the book as written.

    The film OHMSS follows YOLT, but in the novels it's the other way around. Blofeld should have recognized Bond in the OHMSS film.

    I know that. What's your point? As I said, book as written. In the novel Blofeld has had plastic surgery and Bond uses a disguise.
  • The point is that Blofeld should have recognized Bond in OHMSS. Even though it was a different actor it was the same character.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,356
    They wanted to film the book as written, what's your issue with that? That way everything is explained! It's an adaptation of the novel.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Birdleson wrote:
    It isn't real.

    Never say that.
  • Samuel001 wrote:
    They wanted to film the book as written, what's your issue with that? That way everything is explained! It's an adaptation of the novel.

    Everything is not explained. I understand that the book OHMSS follows the film very closely, that said, since they changed the order of the films from the books, there is an inconsistency that's created. In the film Blofeld should have recognized Bond as they just met two years earlier in YOLT. I'm not really hung up or upset by it, just pointing out an inconsistency.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,356
    Well, I don't know what else to say. As it's an adaptation of the novel, it focuses on being that and ignores the other films. It's that simple, in my opinion at least.

    Of course if you were watching the series in order there would be inconsistencies but I'm trying to point out why that is and giving the reason for them.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 381
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Well, I don't know what else to say. As it's an adaptation of the novel, it focuses on being that and ignores the other films. It's that simple, in my opinion at least.

    They actually go out of their way to bring in the other films at the start of the movie when Lazenby is going though everything in his desk. They really wanted us to know that this was the same character and the other events in the films took place.

    Don't mind me, It's my Star Trek geek need to have everything explained and for everything to be consistent.


  • Posts: 15,235
    Samuel001 wrote:
    It may do. They wanted to film the book as written.

    That is how I take it. As for the inconsistencies between YOLT and OHMSS, they can be explained, by retconning and tweaking things a bit. And I blame YOLT more than OHMSS.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Well, I don't know what else to say. As it's an adaptation of the novel, it focuses on being that and ignores the other films. It's that simple, in my opinion at least.

    They actually go out of their way to bring in the other films at the start of the movie when Lazenby is going though everything in his desk. They really wanted us to know that this was the same character and the other events in the films took place.

    Don't mind me, It's my Star Trek geek need to have everything explained and for everything to be consistent.


    I've always took those as references for the audience, nothing else as it does not relate to the plot.

    Now I know I'm talking to a Star Trek fan, I shouldn't have bothered. ;) This Bond series must be hard work for you! I, for one, am glad everything is so messed up - it leaves no doubt.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 381
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Well, I don't know what else to say. As it's an adaptation of the novel, it focuses on being that and ignores the other films. It's that simple, in my opinion at least.

    They actually go out of their way to bring in the other films at the start of the movie when Lazenby is going though everything in his desk. They really wanted us to know that this was the same character and the other events in the films took place.

    Don't mind me, It's my Star Trek geek need to have everything explained and for everything to be consistent.


    I've always took those as references for the audience, nothing else as it does not relate to the plot.

    Now I know I'm talking to a Star Trek fan, I shouldn't have bothered. ;) This Bond series must be hard work for you! I, for one, am glad everything is so messed up - it leaves no doubt.

    Try following Red Dwarf...

    Back to the OT--I think that the weakest part of TWINE (an otherwise good film) is the casting of Denise Richards as Christmas Jones.
    ff_twine_003.jpg

    A nuclear physicist? Yeah, okay...


  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Well, I don't know what else to say. As it's an adaptation of the novel, it focuses on being that and ignores the other films. It's that simple, in my opinion at least.

    They actually go out of their way to bring in the other films at the start of the movie when Lazenby is going though everything in his desk. They really wanted us to know that this was the same character and the other events in the films took place.

    Don't mind me, It's my Star Trek geek need to have everything explained and for everything to be consistent.


    I've always took those as references for the audience, nothing else as it does not relate to the plot.

    Now I know I'm talking to a Star Trek fan, I shouldn't have bothered. ;) This Bond series must be hard work for you! I, for one, am glad everything is so messed up - it leaves no doubt.

    We couldn't be more on the same page.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Don't mind me, It's my Star Trek geek need to have everything explained and for everything to be consistent.
    We are the Borg. Lower your Walther and surrender your Lotus. We will add your novel and motion picture distinctiveness to our own. Your continuity will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    Don't mind me, It's my Star Trek geek need to have everything explained and for everything to be consistent.
    We are the Borg. Lower your Walther and surrender your Lotus. We will add your novel and motion picture distinctiveness to our own. Your continuity will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

    Well played.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Well played.
    It was either Borg or chronoton particles. I went for the funnier of the two.
    Star Trek fan here too, btw.
    B-)
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Back to the OT--I think that the weakest part of TWINE (an otherwise good film) is the casting of Denise Richards as Christmas Jones.
    ff_twine_003.jpg

    A nuclear physicist? Yeah, okay...

    So she's not credible as a nuclear physicist just because she's fit?
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 6,396
    Back to the OT--I think that the weakest part of TWINE (an otherwise good film) is the casting of Denise Richards as Christmas Jones.
    ff_twine_003.jpg

    A nuclear physicist? Yeah, okay...

    So she's not credible as a nuclear physicist just because she's fit?

    Probably because she's an utterly appalling actress who fails to convince the audience of the character she's meant to be portraying. ;-)
  • Back to the OT--I think that the weakest part of TWINE (an otherwise good film) is the casting of Denise Richards as Christmas Jones.
    ff_twine_003.jpg

    A nuclear physicist? Yeah, okay...

    So she's not credible as a nuclear physicist just because she's fit?

    No, she's was not credible as a nuclear physicist. How many 27 year-olds are? And how many of them go to work looking like they are getting ready for a beauty pageant?
  • Back to the OT--I think that the weakest part of TWINE (an otherwise good film) is the casting of Denise Richards as Christmas Jones.
    ff_twine_003.jpg

    A nuclear physicist? Yeah, okay...

    So she's not credible as a nuclear physicist just because she's fit?

    Probably because she's an utterly appalling actress who fails to convince the audience of the character she's meant to be portraying. ;-)

    Lois Chiles was far more convincing as Dr. Holly Goodhead. She was older, for one thing and dressed the part.
  • Birdleson wrote:
    Probably because she's an utterly appalling actress who fails to convince the audience of the character she's meant to be portraying.

    Yes.

    Are you looking for a glimmer?

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