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Which bit undermines an otherwise good film...

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  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    I,d add to this that she has a kind of cheap beauty that I think does not fit a Bond girl.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    So mean to the poor girl... :-<
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    I was being silly, and I got a serious response.
    My bad, I used the wrong emoticon... :))
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,473
    As far as the whole Bond womanizing thing in OHMSS goes, it shouldn't bother fans. It's Bond's character, and in case you forgot, when Draco asks Tracy if Bond loves her earlier in the film, she replies "That may come too." Bond didn't truly fall for Tracy until he meets her back in the village 2/3 of the way through the film. After he proposed he didn't bed anyone else; he seemed pretty intent on it after that. A few nitpicks I suppose:
    -boring and dragged-out sequences all over FRWL (come at me haters)
    -confusing underwater sequences in TB (I know it's been said a lot, but TB lost my attention a few times)
    -the entire concept of making everything silly surrounding Blofeld post-OHMSS (DAF's best merit was Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd IMO)
    -Bond going into space and Jaws getting a gf (few argue MR is not one of the worst Bond films - especially in the second half)
    -Moore's age in AVTAK (speaks for itself)
    -Generic feelings of TMD, some cheesiness in TWINE, and a complete mess in its second half in DAD (After GE, the Brosnan era really went downhill)

    Just the biggest gripes I have with the series.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    FoxRox wrote:
    As far as the whole Bond womanizing thing in OHMSS goes, it shouldn't bother fans. It's Bond's character, and in case you forgot, when Draco asks Tracy if Bond loves her earlier in the film, she replies "That may come too." Bond didn't truly fall for Tracy until he meets her back in the village 2/3 of the way through the film. After he proposed he didn't bed anyone else; he seemed pretty intent on it after that. A few nitpicks I suppose:
    -boring and dragged-out sequences all over FRWL (come at me haters)
    -confusing underwater sequences in TB (I know it's been said a lot, but TB lost my attention a few times)
    -the entire concept of making everything silly surrounding Blofeld post-OHMSS (DAF's best merit was Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd IMO)
    -Bond going into space and Jaws getting a gf (few argue MR is not one of the worst Bond films - especially in the second half)
    -Moore's age in AVTAK (speaks for itself)
    -Generic feelings of TMD, some cheesiness in TWINE, and a complete mess in its second half in DAD (After GE, the Brosnan era really went downhill)

    Just the biggest gripes I have with the series.

    No, I can completely agree with you on FRWL. I feel that some scenes are a bit tedious (i.e. The scene in St Sophia).
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    There's nothing tedious in FRWL. Movies need slow and quiet times, even and especially action movies.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Ludovico wrote:
    There's nothing tedious in FRWL. Movies need slow and quiet times, even and especially action movies.

    Hear, hear. A lesson from which TND would have profited.

  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    There's nothing tedious in FRWL. Movies need slow and quiet times, even and especially action movies.

    Hear, hear. A lesson from which TND would have profited.

    Agree here also.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Ludovico wrote:
    There's nothing tedious in FRWL. Movies need slow and quiet times, even and especially action movies.

    Which is nearly the entire film. There's the gypsy camp fight (which is awesome with that Barry track) and the boat chase, but the rest of the film is a tad slow. But that only detracts from FRWL a little for me, as it sits healthily in 9th place. I think it is the same with TB, where some scenes are undeniably tedious.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    There's nothing tedious in FRWL. Movies need slow and quiet times, even and especially action movies.

    Hear, hear. A lesson from which TND would have profited.

    And a few others, in fact the weakest ones often have not enough quiet moments.
    MayDayDiVicenzo wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    There's nothing tedious in FRWL. Movies need slow and quiet times, even and especially action movies.

    Which is nearly the entire film. There's the gypsy camp fight (which is awesome with that Barry track) and the boat chase, but the rest of the film is a tad slow. But that only detracts from FRWL a little for me, as it sits healthily in 9th place. I think it is the same with TB, where some scenes are undeniably tedious.

    FRWL is a proper spy movie. It has suspense, it has moments when Bond investigates and does actual spying. Hence it has to be slow, quiet. Fleming novels has plenty of slow moments too, they are never dull.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited February 2014 Posts: 5,080
    Ludovico wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    There's nothing tedious in FRWL. Movies need slow and quiet times, even and especially action movies.

    Hear, hear. A lesson from which TND would have profited.

    And a few others, in fact the weakest ones often have not enough quiet moments.
    MayDayDiVicenzo wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    There's nothing tedious in FRWL. Movies need slow and quiet times, even and especially action movies.

    Which is nearly the entire film. There's the gypsy camp fight (which is awesome with that Barry track) and the boat chase, but the rest of the film is a tad slow. But that only detracts from FRWL a little for me, as it sits healthily in 9th place. I think it is the same with TB, where some scenes are undeniably tedious.

    FRWL is a proper spy movie. It has suspense, it has moments when Bond investigates and does actual spying. Hence it has to be slow, quiet. Fleming novels has plenty of slow moments too, they are never dull.

    The reason why I think OHMSS is the best film is because it gets the balance right: there are slow moments but there are tidbits of suspenseful action dotted throughtout the film, so my attention never wavers. And I think it's safe to say that Bond does a fair bit of spying in OHMSS, I mean, the entire scenes in Piz Gloria is him spying in a disguise.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    FRWL is not my favourite Bond, but I consider it the best. Not because it is a great Bond movie, but because it is a great movie, period. And my attention does not waver during the slow moments. Such story needs slow moments.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    "Nucular" from TWINE didn't help, but it was the directing and production that undermined potential here.

    Back to the topic though....the guy with the wine bottle in 3 films (I think, maybe 2), got old after just one film, imo.

    Also, the stunt casting of the guy from YOLT as Blofeld in DAF was probably used primarly to relate the two films better and give GL the finger.
  • Whitaker1987Whitaker1987
    Posts: 172
    Not wanting to sound a grump but my only scene I wish could have been done differently was the death of Krest in LTK.

    Yeah I know it was a stylish way to be killed but it was a bit OTT for any Bond film.

    Odd deaths have cropped up in the Bond franchaise from day one.

    Still a few folk may feel this scene was fine and justified but also I hope that a few would liked it to have been changed? to what is another question.
  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    Posts: 316
    The villains in TLD detract from its status for me
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2014 Posts: 17,801
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:
    The villains in TLD detract from its status for me
    Not for me, I like them a lot. The only thing that detracts from my enjoyment of TLD is showing the Afghan rebels in a good light. They should have been presented as the borderline thugs they were. But then, it's just a movie, and Bond is the main focus.
    It's still my #1 Bond flick.
  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    Posts: 316
    chrisisall wrote:
    Not for me, I like them a lot. The only thing that detracts from my enjoyment of TLD is showing the Afghan rebels in a good light. They should have been presented as the borderline thugs they were. But then, it's just a movie, and Bond is the main focus.
    It's still my #1 Bond flick.

    I can see why people might like Koskov, but I simply find him annoying.
    Whitaker, a bit trickier, I guess he could be likable, but to me he's dull as dishwater
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:
    Whitaker, a bit trickier, I guess he could be likable, but to me he's dull as dishwater
    He WAS better as Wade...
  • LegateDamarLegateDamar
    Posts: 381
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:
    The villains in TLD detract from its status for me


    chrisisall wrote:
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:
    The villains in TLD detract from its status for me
    Not for me, I like them a lot. The only thing that detracts from my enjoyment of TLD is showing the Afghan rebels in a good light. They should have been presented as the borderline thugs they were. But then, it's just a movie, and Bond is the main focus.
    It's still my #1 Bond flick.

    Wouldn't those "freedom fighters" in TLD be the precursor to the Taliban?

  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    Posts: 316
    chrisisall wrote:
    He WAS better as Wade...

    IN Goldeneye, he was indeed!
  • LegateDamarLegateDamar
    Posts: 381
    I actually really liked Koskov and Whitaker. They weren't over-the-top or super-villains, they were believable and realistic. I also like how he don't find out that Koskov is a villain until later on in the film. Necros was also one of the best henchman in any Bond film.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    LegateDamar wrote:
    I actually really liked Koskov and Whitaker. They weren't over-the-top or super-villains, they were believable and realistic. I also like how he don't find out that Koskov is a villain until later on in the film. Necros was also one of the best henchman in any Bond film.
    You're just telling me what I want to hear.
    :))
  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    Posts: 316
    LegateDamar wrote:
    Necros was also one of the best henchman in any Bond film.

    there's one sentiment I can agree with. I love how much dialogue they give him and how he actually has a personality. I think the AVTAK-GE is the best lineup of henchmen in consecutive films, from May Day to Necros to Dario to Xenia.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:
    I think the AVTAK-GE is the best lineup of henchmen in consecutive films, from May Day to Necros to Dario to Xenia.
    There is entirely too much agreement presently on this thread...
    :-?
  • LegateDamarLegateDamar
    edited February 2014 Posts: 381
    Onatopp is one of my favorites, for sure.

    I also really liked the villains from TND. Carver was like Steve Jobs evil twin and Stamper was the last aryan brute to appear in a Bond film in the tradition of Red Grant and Necros, who all looked like they came straight out of Hitler's wet dream.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    YOLT: the cheap effects of the SPECTRE rocket
    OHMSS: "This never happened to the other fella", and I also dislike very much that Draco hits Tracy in the face
    DAF: the Circus Circus sequence (the elephant, the gorilla, everything!)
    LTK: the stupid winking fish
    DAD: it could have been much better without the VR scenes, specially the one of Moneypenny
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,473
    I think if there's any Bond movie I'd have to say I'm unsure about as a whole, it's definitely The Living Daylights. It's such a popular one among the fans, but I've always preferred its even darker sequel. TLD is really unique in the series, but there's some things about it I just wasn't crazy about, chief among them a dragged out conclusion and forgettable villains.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    I love Koskov and despise Whitaker. I think the character has potential but the final showdown is a bit underwhelming - not bad, but underwhelming - and Baker is AWFUL as an actor.

    In OHMSS (another 10/10 Bond film for me), the fact that the bomb at Piz Gloria goes off a full 15 seconds after the countdown is finished, and right after, the 20-second fuse on Blofeld's hand grenade during the bobsled chase have both always bothered me.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I too dislike both Koskov (over the top acting in some scenes) and Whitaker (forgettable). And I believe the plot in TLD becomes convulated.
  • LegateDamarLegateDamar
    Posts: 381
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I love Koskov and despise Whitaker. I think the character has potential but the final showdown is a bit underwhelming - not bad, but underwhelming - and Baker is AWFUL as an actor.

    I thought that Baker was perfect as the crass, boorish American arms dealer.
    MayDayDiVicenzo wrote:
    I too dislike both Koskov (over the top acting in some scenes) and Whitaker (forgettable). And I believe the plot in TLD becomes convulated.

    I had to watch TLD at least twice before I fully understood the plot and parts of it still don't make a lot of sense. Still, I get most of it.
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