It Seems There Are More QoS Appreciators Than Thought Before

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Comments

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 2022 Posts: 3,154
    Say what?
    Strange thought, eh?

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a666575/quantum-of-solace-director-marc-forster-says-he-turned-down-skyfall/

    https://www.firstshowing.net/2008/marc-forster-can-only-handle-one-bond-at-a-time/

    But as far back as 2009, when Forster spoke about turning down the offer to do the next one, he said 'I feel like next time you should take it in a lighter and more humorous way'! So the results might not've been QOS pt2...

  • CharmianBondCharmianBond Pett Bottom, Kent
    Posts: 558
    Wow I had no idea about that. Well that's shot up to the top of my Bond what-ifs I'd like to see.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 698
    It would've been nice if the entire Craig era was just handled by Campbell, Forster, and Haggis. It would've spared us all the nonsense that Mendes, Logan, Butterworth, Fukuanaga, and Waller-Bridge did.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited June 2022 Posts: 554
    slide_99 wrote: »
    It would've been nice if the entire Craig era was just handled by Campbell, Forster, and Haggis. It would've spared us all the nonsense that Mendes, Logan, Butterworth, Fukuanaga, and Waller-Bridge did.
    I think Fukunaga and Waller-Bridge did very well considering they were locked in to the most controversial part of the film (Bond’s death) from the beginning - Boyle said it was decided from before he even joined.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 784
    slide_99 wrote: »
    It would've been nice if the entire Craig era was just handled by Campbell, Forster, and Haggis. It would've spared us all the nonsense that Mendes, Logan, Butterworth, Fukuanaga, and Waller-Bridge did.
    I think Fukunaga and Waller-Bridge did very well considering they were locked in to the most controversial part of the film (Bond’s death) from the beginning - Boyle said it was decided from before he even joined.

    Yeah but no.

    The buildup should have been more suspenseful, the stakes should have been higher, it should have been foreshadowed yet unexpected, it should have been graphic and less climactic. And Nomi should have suddenly been left to finish the mission on her own against paralysing odds.



    Let’s stop excusing bad or unfit writers with unfortunate “circumstances” and try to raise the bar a little.
  • Posts: 1,926
    slide_99 wrote: »
    It would've been nice if the entire Craig era was just handled by Campbell, Forster, and Haggis. It would've spared us all the nonsense that Mendes, Logan, Butterworth, Fukuanaga, and Waller-Bridge did.
    I think Fukunaga and Waller-Bridge did very well considering they were locked in to the most controversial part of the film (Bond’s death) from the beginning - Boyle said it was decided from before he even joined.

    Yeah but no.

    The buildup should have been more suspenseful, the stakes should have been higher, it should have been foreshadowed yet unexpected, it should have been graphic and less climactic. And Nomi should have suddenly been left to finish the mission on her own against paralysing odds.



    Let’s stop excusing bad or unfit writers on unfortunate “circumstances” and try to raise the bar a little.

    Are you kidding? She's one of the most polarizing characters in the series. This is a James Bond movie, not a Nomi movie. People already have a problem with her enough and that would've really been damaging.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited June 2022 Posts: 554
    The stakes were about as high as they could go and the whole film builds towards Bond dying (although that's more thematic). And it's a Bond film, of course he's going to be the hero.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 784
    BT3366 wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    It would've been nice if the entire Craig era was just handled by Campbell, Forster, and Haggis. It would've spared us all the nonsense that Mendes, Logan, Butterworth, Fukuanaga, and Waller-Bridge did.
    I think Fukunaga and Waller-Bridge did very well considering they were locked in to the most controversial part of the film (Bond’s death) from the beginning - Boyle said it was decided from before he even joined.

    Yeah but no.

    The buildup should have been more suspenseful, the stakes should have been higher, it should have been foreshadowed yet unexpected, it should have been graphic and less climactic. And Nomi should have suddenly been left to finish the mission on her own against paralysing odds.



    Let’s stop excusing bad or unfit writers on unfortunate “circumstances” and try to raise the bar a little.

    Are you kidding? She's one of the most polarizing characters in the series. This is a James Bond movie, not a Nomi movie. People already have a problem with her enough and that would've really been damaging.

    Her whole replacing Bond as 007 was an infantile storyline, and she was severely underutilised. The entire plot did build towards his death, in the most boring manner possible. It wasn’t done with any finesse.
    The stakes were about as high as they could go and the whole film builds towards Bond dying (although that's more thematic). And it's a Bond film, of course he's going to be the hero.

    He could have still been a hero, and his death could have saved Nomi and the world etc. I suppose you think the whole world revolving around a character is good storytelling, but it’s not. It’s claustrophobic. Hey why don’t we make his arch nemesis and the most iconic villain his foster brother.

    Blofeld died, Felix died and Bond died. Didn’t evoke any emotion in me as a viewer. It was like Game of Thrones killing of Sir Barristan and Littlefinger. They should have offed him like Ned Stark instead of like Boromir. Unarmed.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited June 2022 Posts: 554
    BT3366 wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    It would've been nice if the entire Craig era was just handled by Campbell, Forster, and Haggis. It would've spared us all the nonsense that Mendes, Logan, Butterworth, Fukuanaga, and Waller-Bridge did.
    I think Fukunaga and Waller-Bridge did very well considering they were locked in to the most controversial part of the film (Bond’s death) from the beginning - Boyle said it was decided from before he even joined.

    Yeah but no.

    The buildup should have been more suspenseful, the stakes should have been higher, it should have been foreshadowed yet unexpected, it should have been graphic and less climactic. And Nomi should have suddenly been left to finish the mission on her own against paralysing odds.



    Let’s stop excusing bad or unfit writers on unfortunate “circumstances” and try to raise the bar a little.

    Are you kidding? She's one of the most polarizing characters in the series. This is a James Bond movie, not a Nomi movie. People already have a problem with her enough and that would've really been damaging.

    Her whole replacing Bond as 007 was an infantile storyline, and she was severely underutilised.
    The stakes were about as high as they could go and the whole film builds towards Bond dying (although that's more thematic). And it's a Bond film, of course he's going to be the hero.

    He could have still been a hero, and his death could have saved Nomi. I suppose you think the whole world revolving around a character is good storytelling, but it’s not. Hey why don’t we make his arch nemesis and the most iconic villain his foster brother.
    I feel the main character of the film and series in an actor's last appearance as the character and the film in which he's killed off remaining the protagonist through the climax is not a dubious decision.

    I will agree Nomi was underused though, I liked their dynamic. I just don't agree she should have supplanted Bond in terms of focus at the end.
  • It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 784
    It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited June 2022 Posts: 554
    It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 784
    It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.

    It should have embraced itself more, you know been a bit more intricate and psychological.

    As it is, it was riddled with plot holes, no real character arcs, too much brooding/ambience, the shaving scene was wtf, bond standing broad legged (in the boat), being limited to Bonds POV, the villain’s motives, the lack of a suspense in the investigation, the final fight, nothing made sense, every character except M and Tanner was petty.

    It tried to do a deep dive in a kids pool.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited June 2022 Posts: 554
    It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.

    It should have embraced itself more, you know been a bit more intricate and psychological.

    As it is, it was riddled with plot holes, no real character arcs, too much brooding/ambience, the shaving scene was wtf, bond standing broad legged (in the boat), being limited to Bonds POV, the villain’s motives, the lack of a suspense in the investigation, the final fight, nothing made sense, every character except M and Tanner was petty.

    It tried to do a deep dive in a kids pool. Darren Aronofsky should have directed it.
    I think Bond’s arc is pretty clear: the veteran agent who's burnt out from six years of being a 00 finds he still has more to give and recommits to MI6. M's arc is more just about her relationship with Bond. I thought limiting it to his POV was a fine choice and Silva's motives were effective. Bond knifing Silva isn't much of a grand kill, but did it need to be?

    The plot holes I'll grant you, but they just don't bother me that much.
  • It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.

    It should have embraced itself more, you know been a bit more intricate and psychological.

    As it is, it was riddled with plot holes, no real character arcs, too much brooding/ambience, the shaving scene was wtf, bond standing broad legged (in the boat), being limited to Bonds POV, the villain’s motives, the lack of a suspense in the investigation, the final fight, nothing made sense, every character except M and Tanner was petty.

    It tried to do a deep dive in a kids pool. Darren Aronofsky should have directed it.

    SF hasn't aged well for many reasons including this....not to discredit some of the strengths in the film such as Bond the style of Bond running to save M at the hearing.

    SF borrowed a lot from QoS....not limited to Bond and Tanner driving in London in a black Range Rover while chatting it up in a tunnel with shots very identical in style as QoS in Italy.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 784
    It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.

    It should have embraced itself more, you know been a bit more intricate and psychological.

    As it is, it was riddled with plot holes, no real character arcs, too much brooding/ambience, the shaving scene was wtf, bond standing broad legged (in the boat), being limited to Bonds POV, the villain’s motives, the lack of a suspense in the investigation, the final fight, nothing made sense, every character except M and Tanner was petty.

    It tried to do a deep dive in a kids pool. Darren Aronofsky should have directed it.
    I think Bond’s arc is pretty clear: the veteran agent who's burnt out from six years of being a 00 finds he still has more to give and recommits to MI6. M's arc is more just about her relationship with Bond. I thought limiting it to his POV was a fine choice and Silva's motives were effective. Bond knifing Silva isn't much of a grand kill, but did it need to be?

    The plot holes I'll grant you, but they just don't bother me that much.

    Bond’s arc was supposed to be wavering trust for his employer, which could have been nicely intertwined with Silvas and M’s. It’s such a missed opportunity to create moral ambiguity but instead the shades of grey became black and white without any catalyst or exploration. M’s arc was about keeping her job, failing to stay alive was not an sufficient resolution to her story, only Silvas, who died before it happened.

    Javier Bardem was charming but the character was childish and conveniently OP, and his scenes didn’t contribute more than furthering the very simple plot.

    The entire third act, not the knifing, was poorly written. Bringing M to his family home without backup or arms, knowing Silva will come prepared, killed the suspension of disbelief entirely. Did he do it because he was reminded it exists during the psychiatric word association game. I mean come on.

    I could go on endlessly.

    It’s clear when writers lack ability in their craft and it’s clear when they aren’t very bright. It would have been more obvious if the consecutive films hadn’t continued to lower the bar.

    People who like badly written films, like them for other reasons than the bad writing.
  • It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.

    It should have embraced itself more, you know been a bit more intricate and psychological.

    As it is, it was riddled with plot holes, no real character arcs, too much brooding/ambience, the shaving scene was wtf, bond standing broad legged (in the boat), being limited to Bonds POV, the villain’s motives, the lack of a suspense in the investigation, the final fight, nothing made sense, every character except M and Tanner was petty.

    It tried to do a deep dive in a kids pool. Darren Aronofsky should have directed it.
    I think Bond’s arc is pretty clear: the veteran agent who's burnt out from six years of being a 00 finds he still has more to give and recommits to MI6. M's arc is more just about her relationship with Bond. I thought limiting it to his POV was a fine choice and Silva's motives were effective. Bond knifing Silva isn't much of a grand kill, but did it need to be?

    The plot holes I'll grant you, but they just don't bother me that much.

    Bond’s arc was supposed to be wavering trust for his employer, which could have been nicely intertwined with Silvas and M’s. It’s such a missed opportunity to create moral ambiguity but instead the shades of grey became black and white without any catalyst or exploration. M’s arc was about keeping her job, failing to stay alive was not an appropriate resolution to her story, only Silvas, who died before it happened.

    Javier Bardem was charming but the character was childish and conveniently OP, and his scenes didn’t contribute more than furthering the very simple plot.

    The entire third act, not the knifing, was poorly written. Bringing M to his family home without backup or arms, knowing Silva will come prepared, killed the suspension of disbelief entirely. Did he do it because he was reminded it exists in the psychiatric word association game. I mean come on.

    I could go on endlessly.

    It’s clear when writers lack ability in their craft and it’s clear when they aren’t very bright. It would have been more obvious if the consecutive films hadn’t continued to lower the bar.

    People who like badly written films, like them for other reasons than the bad writing.

    Well said. After QoS came out, people questioned whether his Bond was the good guy or not. The fact that SF writers dubbed it down to black and white truly made a critical error for DC's story arc with a missed opportunity. SF was over marketed.
  • It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.

    It should have embraced itself more, you know been a bit more intricate and psychological.

    As it is, it was riddled with plot holes, no real character arcs, too much brooding/ambience, the shaving scene was wtf, bond standing broad legged (in the boat), being limited to Bonds POV, the villain’s motives, the lack of a suspense in the investigation, the final fight, nothing made sense, every character except M and Tanner was petty.

    It tried to do a deep dive in a kids pool. Darren Aronofsky should have directed it.
    I think Bond’s arc is pretty clear: the veteran agent who's burnt out from six years of being a 00 finds he still has more to give and recommits to MI6. M's arc is more just about her relationship with Bond. I thought limiting it to his POV was a fine choice and Silva's motives were effective. Bond knifing Silva isn't much of a grand kill, but did it need to be?

    The plot holes I'll grant you, but they just don't bother me that much.

    Bond’s arc was supposed to be wavering trust for his employer, which could have been nicely intertwined with Silvas and M’s. It’s such a missed opportunity to create moral ambiguity but instead the shades of grey became black and white without any catalyst or exploration. M’s arc was about keeping her job, failing to stay alive was not an appropriate resolution to her story, only Silvas, who died before it happened.

    Javier Bardem was charming but the character was childish and conveniently OP, and his scenes didn’t contribute more than furthering the very simple plot.

    The entire third act, not the knifing, was poorly written. Bringing M to his family home without backup or arms, knowing Silva will come prepared, killed the suspension of disbelief entirely. Did he do it because he was reminded it exists in the psychiatric word association game. I mean come on.

    I could go on endlessly.

    It’s clear when writers lack ability in their craft and it’s clear when they aren’t very bright. It would have been more obvious if the consecutive films hadn’t continued to lower the bar.

    People who like badly written films, like them for other reasons than the bad writing.

    Well said. After QoS came out, people questioned whether his Bond was the good guy or not. The fact that SF writers dubbed it down to black and white truly made a critical error for DC's story arc with a missed opportunity. SF was over marketed.

    After a long gap.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    I need to read your very finest script @ByRoyalDecree … I’ll even sign an NDA
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 784
    deleted
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Whoa 😂, none of those @ByRoyalDecree

    Still, it’d be interesting.

    So you’re an actor as well as a writer/director? Do as not to clog this thread, please DM me.

  • edited June 2022 Posts: 784
    deleted
  • deleted
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited June 2022 Posts: 554
    It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.

    It should have embraced itself more, you know been a bit more intricate and psychological.

    As it is, it was riddled with plot holes, no real character arcs, too much brooding/ambience, the shaving scene was wtf, bond standing broad legged (in the boat), being limited to Bonds POV, the villain’s motives, the lack of a suspense in the investigation, the final fight, nothing made sense, every character except M and Tanner was petty.

    It tried to do a deep dive in a kids pool. Darren Aronofsky should have directed it.
    I think Bond’s arc is pretty clear: the veteran agent who's burnt out from six years of being a 00 finds he still has more to give and recommits to MI6. M's arc is more just about her relationship with Bond. I thought limiting it to his POV was a fine choice and Silva's motives were effective. Bond knifing Silva isn't much of a grand kill, but did it need to be?

    The plot holes I'll grant you, but they just don't bother me that much.

    Bond’s arc was supposed to be wavering trust for his employer, which could have been nicely intertwined with Silvas and M’s. It’s such a missed opportunity to create moral ambiguity but instead the shades of grey became black and white without any catalyst or exploration. M’s arc was about keeping her job, failing to stay alive was not an appropriate resolution to her story, only Silvas, who died before it happened.

    Javier Bardem was charming but the character was childish and conveniently OP, and his scenes didn’t contribute more than furthering the very simple plot.

    The entire third act, not the knifing, was poorly written. Bringing M to his family home without backup or arms, knowing Silva will come prepared, killed the suspension of disbelief entirely. Did he do it because he was reminded it exists during the psychiatric word association game. I mean come on.

    I could go on endlessly.

    It’s clear when writers lack ability in their craft and it’s clear when they aren’t very bright. It would have been more obvious if the consecutive films hadn’t continued to lower the bar.

    People who like badly written films, like them for other reasons than the bad writing.
    I thought Silva's introduction and the shooting contest were very good, he played off Bond well in regards to his anachronistic dedication to 'the empire' and such. The backstory about M giving him up to the Chinese was a nice piece of moral ambiguity IMO. You can understand why she did it of course, but you can also get how that drove him insane and caused him to hate her. It also ties into how M sacrificed Ronson and even Bond in the PTS. Then there's the agents that died as a result of the bombing and so on. Looking at it that way, her dying herself at the end makes some sense.

    He brought her back to Skyfall because he thought they still had the weapons there.

  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited June 2022 Posts: 554
    It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.

    It should have embraced itself more, you know been a bit more intricate and psychological.

    As it is, it was riddled with plot holes, no real character arcs, too much brooding/ambience, the shaving scene was wtf, bond standing broad legged (in the boat), being limited to Bonds POV, the villain’s motives, the lack of a suspense in the investigation, the final fight, nothing made sense, every character except M and Tanner was petty.

    It tried to do a deep dive in a kids pool. Darren Aronofsky should have directed it.
    I think Bond’s arc is pretty clear: the veteran agent who's burnt out from six years of being a 00 finds he still has more to give and recommits to MI6. M's arc is more just about her relationship with Bond. I thought limiting it to his POV was a fine choice and Silva's motives were effective. Bond knifing Silva isn't much of a grand kill, but did it need to be?

    The plot holes I'll grant you, but they just don't bother me that much.

    Bond’s arc was supposed to be wavering trust for his employer, which could have been nicely intertwined with Silvas and M’s. It’s such a missed opportunity to create moral ambiguity but instead the shades of grey became black and white without any catalyst or exploration. M’s arc was about keeping her job, failing to stay alive was not an appropriate resolution to her story, only Silvas, who died before it happened.

    Javier Bardem was charming but the character was childish and conveniently OP, and his scenes didn’t contribute more than furthering the very simple plot.

    The entire third act, not the knifing, was poorly written. Bringing M to his family home without backup or arms, knowing Silva will come prepared, killed the suspension of disbelief entirely. Did he do it because he was reminded it exists in the psychiatric word association game. I mean come on.

    I could go on endlessly.

    It’s clear when writers lack ability in their craft and it’s clear when they aren’t very bright. It would have been more obvious if the consecutive films hadn’t continued to lower the bar.

    People who like badly written films, like them for other reasons than the bad writing.

    Well said. After QoS came out, people questioned whether his Bond was the good guy or not. The fact that SF writers dubbed it down to black and white truly made a critical error for DC's story arc with a missed opportunity. SF was over marketed.
    I think this is being overdramatic. Bond is morally grey to an extent in QoS because he's supposed to be angry and depressed, at the end of the film he's worked through that. Plus the way I see it he was very clearly a good guy in it anyway, just a flawed one - he doesn't even kill Haines' bodyguard, for example.
  • It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.

    It should have embraced itself more, you know been a bit more intricate and psychological.

    As it is, it was riddled with plot holes, no real character arcs, too much brooding/ambience, the shaving scene was wtf, bond standing broad legged (in the boat), being limited to Bonds POV, the villain’s motives, the lack of a suspense in the investigation, the final fight, nothing made sense, every character except M and Tanner was petty.

    It tried to do a deep dive in a kids pool. Darren Aronofsky should have directed it.
    I think Bond’s arc is pretty clear: the veteran agent who's burnt out from six years of being a 00 finds he still has more to give and recommits to MI6. M's arc is more just about her relationship with Bond. I thought limiting it to his POV was a fine choice and Silva's motives were effective. Bond knifing Silva isn't much of a grand kill, but did it need to be?

    The plot holes I'll grant you, but they just don't bother me that much.

    Bond’s arc was supposed to be wavering trust for his employer, which could have been nicely intertwined with Silvas and M’s. It’s such a missed opportunity to create moral ambiguity but instead the shades of grey became black and white without any catalyst or exploration. M’s arc was about keeping her job, failing to stay alive was not an appropriate resolution to her story, only Silvas, who died before it happened.

    Javier Bardem was charming but the character was childish and conveniently OP, and his scenes didn’t contribute more than furthering the very simple plot.

    The entire third act, not the knifing, was poorly written. Bringing M to his family home without backup or arms, knowing Silva will come prepared, killed the suspension of disbelief entirely. Did he do it because he was reminded it exists in the psychiatric word association game. I mean come on.

    I could go on endlessly.

    It’s clear when writers lack ability in their craft and it’s clear when they aren’t very bright. It would have been more obvious if the consecutive films hadn’t continued to lower the bar.

    People who like badly written films, like them for other reasons than the bad writing.

    Well said. After QoS came out, people questioned whether his Bond was the good guy or not. The fact that SF writers dubbed it down to black and white truly made a critical error for DC's story arc with a missed opportunity. SF was over marketed.
    I think this is being overdramatic. Bond is morally grey to an extent in QoS because he's supposed to be angry and depressed, at the end of the film he's worked through that. Plus the way I see it he was very clearly a good guy in it anyway, just a flawed one - he doesn't even kill Haines' bodyguard, for example.

    Remind me of Haines' bodyguard. Which scene was that, the one at the opera who gets shot on top of Green's car?
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.

    It should have embraced itself more, you know been a bit more intricate and psychological.

    As it is, it was riddled with plot holes, no real character arcs, too much brooding/ambience, the shaving scene was wtf, bond standing broad legged (in the boat), being limited to Bonds POV, the villain’s motives, the lack of a suspense in the investigation, the final fight, nothing made sense, every character except M and Tanner was petty.

    It tried to do a deep dive in a kids pool. Darren Aronofsky should have directed it.
    I think Bond’s arc is pretty clear: the veteran agent who's burnt out from six years of being a 00 finds he still has more to give and recommits to MI6. M's arc is more just about her relationship with Bond. I thought limiting it to his POV was a fine choice and Silva's motives were effective. Bond knifing Silva isn't much of a grand kill, but did it need to be?

    The plot holes I'll grant you, but they just don't bother me that much.

    Bond’s arc was supposed to be wavering trust for his employer, which could have been nicely intertwined with Silvas and M’s. It’s such a missed opportunity to create moral ambiguity but instead the shades of grey became black and white without any catalyst or exploration. M’s arc was about keeping her job, failing to stay alive was not an appropriate resolution to her story, only Silvas, who died before it happened.

    Javier Bardem was charming but the character was childish and conveniently OP, and his scenes didn’t contribute more than furthering the very simple plot.

    The entire third act, not the knifing, was poorly written. Bringing M to his family home without backup or arms, knowing Silva will come prepared, killed the suspension of disbelief entirely. Did he do it because he was reminded it exists in the psychiatric word association game. I mean come on.

    I could go on endlessly.

    It’s clear when writers lack ability in their craft and it’s clear when they aren’t very bright. It would have been more obvious if the consecutive films hadn’t continued to lower the bar.

    People who like badly written films, like them for other reasons than the bad writing.

    Well said. After QoS came out, people questioned whether his Bond was the good guy or not. The fact that SF writers dubbed it down to black and white truly made a critical error for DC's story arc with a missed opportunity. SF was over marketed.
    I think this is being overdramatic. Bond is morally grey to an extent in QoS because he's supposed to be angry and depressed, at the end of the film he's worked through that. Plus the way I see it he was very clearly a good guy in it anyway, just a flawed one - he doesn't even kill Haines' bodyguard, for example.

    Remind me of Haines' bodyguard. Which scene was that, the one at the opera who gets shot on top of Green's car?
    Yeah.
  • It was Fukunaka's idea to have Dimitri in more scenes and utilize him as much as possible....and then you got Waller Bridge coming to "punch-up" the lines in the script of a movie where three main characters of the series die with lessened emotional pull. And the producers have been talking about keeping Cary Fukunaka for Bond 26....shaking my head....why not get DC to come serve behind the scenes maybe as a director instead?

    The series has a habit of dropping the ball of great potential. If QoS had a more true sequel, the audience outside the fanbase if the series would have helped propel a 007 movie into more Oscar wins.

    The Mission Impossible series has retained a large number of crew members from QoS for a reason...quality....the series' movies improved with critics each subsequent film with fresher ideas after MI3 while the DC films reverted to their tropes polluting and diluting the emotional pull of their main hooks (i.e M's death in SF, and Bond's death in NTTD).
    It's important to remember that "the audience outside the fanbase" was much more receptive to SF than QoS.

    For reasons other than storytelling and direction.
    If SF had the storytelling style and editing/direction (depends on how hands on Forster was with the former) of it's predecessor, I think it would've been significantly less successful.

    It should have embraced itself more, you know been a bit more intricate and psychological.

    As it is, it was riddled with plot holes, no real character arcs, too much brooding/ambience, the shaving scene was wtf, bond standing broad legged (in the boat), being limited to Bonds POV, the villain’s motives, the lack of a suspense in the investigation, the final fight, nothing made sense, every character except M and Tanner was petty.

    It tried to do a deep dive in a kids pool. Darren Aronofsky should have directed it.
    I think Bond’s arc is pretty clear: the veteran agent who's burnt out from six years of being a 00 finds he still has more to give and recommits to MI6. M's arc is more just about her relationship with Bond. I thought limiting it to his POV was a fine choice and Silva's motives were effective. Bond knifing Silva isn't much of a grand kill, but did it need to be?

    The plot holes I'll grant you, but they just don't bother me that much.

    Bond’s arc was supposed to be wavering trust for his employer, which could have been nicely intertwined with Silvas and M’s. It’s such a missed opportunity to create moral ambiguity but instead the shades of grey became black and white without any catalyst or exploration. M’s arc was about keeping her job, failing to stay alive was not an appropriate resolution to her story, only Silvas, who died before it happened.

    Javier Bardem was charming but the character was childish and conveniently OP, and his scenes didn’t contribute more than furthering the very simple plot.

    The entire third act, not the knifing, was poorly written. Bringing M to his family home without backup or arms, knowing Silva will come prepared, killed the suspension of disbelief entirely. Did he do it because he was reminded it exists in the psychiatric word association game. I mean come on.

    I could go on endlessly.

    It’s clear when writers lack ability in their craft and it’s clear when they aren’t very bright. It would have been more obvious if the consecutive films hadn’t continued to lower the bar.

    People who like badly written films, like them for other reasons than the bad writing.

    Well said. After QoS came out, people questioned whether his Bond was the good guy or not. The fact that SF writers dubbed it down to black and white truly made a critical error for DC's story arc with a missed opportunity. SF was over marketed.
    I think this is being overdramatic. Bond is morally grey to an extent in QoS because he's supposed to be angry and depressed, at the end of the film he's worked through that. Plus the way I see it he was very clearly a good guy in it anyway, just a flawed one - he doesn't even kill Haines' bodyguard, for example.

    Remind me of Haines' bodyguard. Which scene was that, the one at the opera who gets shot on top of Green's car?
    Yeah.

    Guy Haines....another wasted potential plit point character who was never alluded to again in future Craig films.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,154
    I'm sure Haines got what was coming, but yes, it would've been more satisfying to have seen it happen. Course, Forster did film Bond killing Haines but it was part of the scene where he killed Mr. White too, so once that was out, Haines' death was cut along with it.
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