It Seems There Are More QoS Appreciators Than Thought Before

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Comments

  • edited February 2019 Posts: 1,282
    Camille could come back as a re-affirmation to Bond that the dead don't care about vengeance in Bond 25 with regards to Blofeld.
  • SeanCraig wrote: »
    I kinda disagree - she could have been a helpful local contact now stationed anywhere in Latin America - hell even Jamaica if the plot allows for it. A bit (but more involved) like Paula in TB. But - it won‘t happen so I keep my hopes we will at least see Wright as Felix Leiter again. But Camille, due to the nature of her relationship with Bond, would have been an interesting comeback in a smaller part.

    The last we heard, Felix got promoted and then in SP we learned that he would be awaiting to meet with Monica Beluci's character in the U.S.

    Camille on the other hand, she got dropped off at a train station very similar to the one which Bond and Madeline arrived at in SP.

    There was a cemetery right next to the train station in QoS.

  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    Count me here a QoS defender. I really loved QoS when it was released. I was a younger lad back then, but it left a bigger impression on me than CR did at the time. Nowadays, CR is still one of my favourite films, but QoS is really one of those underrated gems of the series. I never really like the whole Bond formula, in fact most of the Bond films I just watch for the sake of being a Bond fan. Explains why I enjoy FRWL, OHMSS, CR, QoS.

    QoS has got the blood of Fleming in it at it's heart, rather than the cinematic Bond. It still has great action that's interesting and not really "normal". It's quick, fast, to the point, and has soul. The film shows us the anti-hero Bond. A ruthless killer with justice at the core of his violence (brutal kill in the hotel vs. throwing petroleum at Greene). Bond is a human in this film, and not a borderline sociopath he is in most entries.

    It's a shame we might not get a film like this again. This is where my admiration for Bond lies, yet it's not even what the core of Bond is about.

    I'm patiently waiting for a worthy successor, but most Bond fans seem to just want another formulaic Moore film.

    If Bond wants to thrive in the modern world I think it needs to dump formula in the garbage. Instead of Bond girls, make interesting female characters. Instead of a menacing Bond villain, give us an antagonist with terrible morals; but realistic goals. Let Bond serve reasonable justice we can't fight in our normal life.

    I feel nothing when Bond fights a cartoonish lunatic.

  • If Bond wants to thrive in the modern world I think it needs to dump formula in the garbage. Instead of Bond girls, make interesting female characters. Instead of a menacing Bond villain, give us an antagonist with terrible morals; but realistic goals. Let Bond serve reasonable justice we can't fight in our normal life.

    I feel nothing when Bond fights a cartoonish lunatic.

    Well said, @dominicgreene , it seems that in SP, the director felt that he would satisfy audiences by giving Blofeld a scar...very trite.

    The scary part about QoS was that the organization was using eco-friendliness to win people's investments and that the villains were people who blended well with the crowds of everyday folks.

    No way to tell how well Bond 25 will be a worth, well-deserved sequel for QoS, but there truly needs to be an emphasis of Fleming down-to-earth Bond than cinematic popcorn/cartoon styles. If it wasn't for movies like FRWL,OHMSSS, CR, and QoS, the series would have died years before DAD would have polluted the theaters.

    Often times, the films after these movies tended to make lots of money because they got new fans invested into the storyline waiting to see how things would be followed up and unfortunatelt with DAF, and SF, the one-off cinematic Bond movies disappoint and get predictable.

  • edited February 2019 Posts: 11,425
    I'd prefer it if all the films were more like the fleet-footed FRWL and QOS and less like the leaden DAD and SF but we have to accept the longevity of the series is due to it delivering both types of film.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    It‘s great to have it all ... the gritty entries, the comic ones, the simple-mission ones and the stylish ones. There‘s something for every fan.

    To me it get‘s problematic if they try to create a blend of them all ... and that was SP. It was everything and nothing at the same time.
  • Yeah, it seems that the obscurely indirect sequels and one-offs have led to instances that nearly ended the series for a variety of reasons ranging from bad critical reviews to whether or not the following films would have enough viewers and also falling within budget costs when adjusted for inflation.

    It's not rocket science....keep the films down to earth, stick to Flemming's material, and provide an interesting and connected story.

    If they followed this formula before, maybe Sean Connery would have had a film more like OHMSS as he had wished but never got.
  • For whatever reason, Bond loses Madeline, would you feel it befitting for Bond to call Camille in the next movie as they follow up on the theme of The Dead Don't Care About Vengeance?

    It could be a small or large part she could play but she'd actually have feedback and words of reason to share with him, as some fans including Babs herself, have welcomed thw idea of Camille returning. Some fans wonder if she's doing well after the intense events of QoS.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,073
    THE DEAD DON'T CARE might be a decent title for a Bond movie. Just saying.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Count me here a QoS defender. I really loved QoS when it was released. I was a younger lad back then, but it left a bigger impression on me than CR did at the time. Nowadays, CR is still one of my favourite films, but QoS is really one of those underrated gems of the series. I never really like the whole Bond formula, in fact most of the Bond films I just watch for the sake of being a Bond fan. Explains why I enjoy FRWL, OHMSS, CR, QoS.

    QoS has got the blood of Fleming in it at it's heart, rather than the cinematic Bond. It still has great action that's interesting and not really "normal". It's quick, fast, to the point, and has soul. The film shows us the anti-hero Bond. A ruthless killer with justice at the core of his violence (brutal kill in the hotel vs. throwing petroleum at Greene). Bond is a human in this film, and not a borderline sociopath he is in most entries.

    It's a shame we might not get a film like this again. This is where my admiration for Bond lies, yet it's not even what the core of Bond is about.

    I'm patiently waiting for a worthy successor, but most Bond fans seem to just want another formulaic Moore film.

    If Bond wants to thrive in the modern world I think it needs to dump formula in the garbage. Instead of Bond girls, make interesting female characters. Instead of a menacing Bond villain, give us an antagonist with terrible morals; but realistic goals. Let Bond serve reasonable justice we can't fight in our normal life.

    I feel nothing when Bond fights a cartoonish lunatic.

    @dominicgreene -- very nicely stated.
  • @dominicgreene , good piece. I really hope the future films follow this route especially now while we still have the talents from QoS around and available to do what they do best.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Getafix wrote: »
    I'd prefer it if all the films were more like the fleet-footed FRWL and QOS and less like the leaden DAD and SF but we have to accept the longevity of the series is due to it delivering both types of film.

    SF ? Seriously?
  • edited February 2019 Posts: 1,282
    Please see our complaints above about SF.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I did,so I say again, SF ,seriously ?
  • Other than Judi Dench, nothing else was redeeming about a film which, for the most part aside from Judi Dench and Bond's relationship, was an imitation of the one-off older Bond movies from an era or timeline in the series that was dead by the time it was 2002 when it was officially imploded by DAD....yes, that SF movie which invalidated Craig's own original Fleming-esque Bond simply because of fear of QoS.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    As much as I like QOS, there is nothing in CR & SF as naff as that boat chase, the sinkhole sequence and the plane dog fight is pretty generic.

    Give me the SF PTS, the Patrice fight, the London big set pieces and that terrific climax in Scotland, Home Alone or not, I don't care, it is glorious.

    Yes the Macau sequence with the Komodo's isn't great but not a problematic as those scenes in QOS I've noted, the sinkhole sequences until SP was the worst sequence in a DC film.
  • edited February 2019 Posts: 1,282
    @Shardlake

    The sinkhole piece was probably one of the most underrated scenes in the film. Not only was the music dark but so was the environment inside as the characters' stories came to light. Then when they got outside, they were walking through the desert and the editing was superb!

    The music of emotional desperation juxtaposed with the village drought and the camera showing Bond and Camille walking as though they were wander in three shots at the same time had a spiritual viewpoint being shown. It's the subtle things like that with the musical score and also the way Camille's drop-off departure at the train station as she walked away and through the editing disappeared like a ghost alongside the cemetery nearby was so metaphorical.....

    The only part in SF that came close to that kind of editing was when Bond and M take a moment to breathe together as they stop and watch the scenery in the Scottish Highlands and are driving their way to Skyfall. But that wasn't much. Thomas Newman's work was mostly small occasional ding-dings here and there emphasizing on overly simple or trying to copy Hans Zimmer.

    No offense, but SF is trite compared to QoS.


    "Congratulations you were right.....about Vesper...."


    Scriptwriting like that made sure that fans think about what Bond meant when he said that and had depth to it...M was right in that she loved him and had been the victim of a honey trapping.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    @Shardlake

    The sinkhole piece was probably one of the most underrated scenes in the film. Not only was the music dark but so was the environment inside as the characters' stories came to light. Then when they got outside, they were walking through the desert and the editing was superb!

    The music of emotional desperation juxtaposed with the village drought and the camera showing Bond and Camille walking as though they were wander in three shots at the same time had a spiritual viewpoint being shown. It's the subtle things like that with the musical score and also the way Camille's drop-off departure at the train station as she walked away and through the editing disappeared like a ghost alongside the cemetery nearby was so metaphorical.....

    The only part in SF that came close to that kind of editing was when Bond and M take a moment to breathe together as they stop and watch the scenery in the Scottish Highlands and are driving their way to Skyfall. But that wasn't much. Thomas Newman's work was mostly small occasional ding-dings here and there emphasizing on overly simple or trying to copy Hans Zimmer.

    No offense, but SF is trite compared to QoS.

    I'm not talking about when they find the underground water source I'm talking about that awful CGI sequence that gets them there.

    I don't have a problem with the film after that, maybe the ham fisted GF reference with Fields but I love the desert climax of the film.

    I won't argue with you on the score front QOS for me is Arnold's best Bond score, look it's top 10 for me I just don't worship it like you do.

    Also the cast, love Almaric as Greene, not as much as Mads and Bardem but still think he's great. Could have been given a little more to work with but his caged animal routine with the axe at the end is superb as is that line he gives to Meldrano about his balls and his successor if he doesn't sign the water over to him.

    No Bond is outright perfect, OHMSS is my favourite followed by CR but both films have their issues but there is so much good I can let it go, whereas QOS feels like it needs some tweaks to reach the greatness you and others see in my view.

    Also, the cinematography in SF is glorious, we've got a master like Deakins doing great work, so sorry no QOS is not in the same class for me.

  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited February 2019 Posts: 2,541
    Shardlake wrote: »
    @Shardlake

    The sinkhole piece was probably one of the most underrated scenes in the film. Not only was the music dark but so was the environment inside as the characters' stories came to light. Then when they got outside, they were walking through the desert and the editing was superb!

    The music of emotional desperation juxtaposed with the village drought and the camera showing Bond and Camille walking as though they were wander in three shots at the same time had a spiritual viewpoint being shown. It's the subtle things like that with the musical score and also the way Camille's drop-off departure at the train station as she walked away and through the editing disappeared like a ghost alongside the cemetery nearby was so metaphorical.....

    The only part in SF that came close to that kind of editing was when Bond and M take a moment to breathe together as they stop and watch the scenery in the Scottish Highlands and are driving their way to Skyfall. But that wasn't much. Thomas Newman's work was mostly small occasional ding-dings here and there emphasizing on overly simple or trying to copy Hans Zimmer.

    No offense, but SF is trite compared to QoS.

    I'm not talking about when they find the underground water source I'm talking about that awful CGI sequence that gets them there.

    I don't have a problem with the film after that, maybe the ham fisted GF reference with Fields but I love the desert climax of the film.

    I won't argue with you on the score front QOS for me is Arnold's best Bond score, look it's top 10 for me I just don't worship it like you do.

    Also the cast, love Almaric as Greene, not as much as Mads and Bardem but still think he's great. Could have been given a little more to work with but his caged animal routine with the axe at the end is superb as is that line he gives to Meldrano about his balls and his successor if he doesn't sign the water over to him.

    No Bond is outright perfect, OHMSS is my favourite followed by CR but both films have their issues but there is so much good I can let it go, whereas QOS feels like it needs some tweaks to reach the greatness you and others see in my view.

    Also, the cinematography in SF is glorious, we've got a master like Deakins doing great work, so sorry no QOS is not in the same class for me.

    You summoned up my thoughts better than I could have especially the bolded part.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    @Shardlake

    The sinkhole piece was probably one of the most underrated scenes in the film. Not only was the music dark but so was the environment inside as the characters' stories came to light. Then when they got outside, they were walking through the desert and the editing was superb!

    Sorry but I want to vomit when I think about the excellent stunt work one film prior that did a 180 on the CGI shit 2 films before. And they give us more CGI crap

    Have to admit Arnold did a great job on the score. Would have been better if no good about goodbye was the theme song but that's not the film makers fault
  • @w2bond , you mean shit on the same CGI used in SF for Silva's face without the glass jaw as desperate attempt to check one off the list for the formula trite?
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    @w2bond , you mean shit on the same CGI used in SF for Silva's face without the glass jaw as desperate attempt to check one off the list for the formula trite?

    Yes I don't like skyfall either. CGI Komodo dragons ugh
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    w2bond wrote: »
    @w2bond , you mean shit on the same CGI used in SF for Silva's face without the glass jaw as desperate attempt to check one off the list for the formula trite?

    Yes I don't like skyfall either. CGI Komodo dragons ugh

    None of it is as bad as that free fall sequence from QOS.
  • This thread is proof that the mistakes of SF and those old run-of-mill movies being crapped out shall never be repeated again. Today's cinematic world is viscous and the producers knew that DAD was an utter mistake.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited February 2019 Posts: 2,252
    This thread is proof that the mistakes of SF and those old run-of-mill movies being crapped out shall never be repeated again. Today's cinematic world is viscous and the producers knew that DAD was an utter mistake.

    ?

    But they repeated the CGI atrocious 2 films later?

    Also remember that in the Casino Royale Special Features there's a doco called "James Bond: For Real"
  • The more realistic and down-to-earth, the better.
  • Posts: 7,653
    The more realistic and down-to-earth, the better.

    The Roger Moore and Dalton era were both without the CGI shenanigans and were pretty good entertainment, down to earth Mendes Bond was pure crapiness, CGI galore and bad scripts, with a poor director.
  • Posts: 11,425
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    THE DEAD DON'T CARE might be a decent title for a Bond movie. Just saying.

    At this rate it might be an apt description for many of us on this thread.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Getafix wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    THE DEAD DON'T CARE might be a decent title for a Bond movie. Just saying.

    At this rate it might be an apt description for many of us on this thread.

    Funny.
  • You know you're a fan when you think about the song "The Dead Don't Care About Vengeance" every time it snows in the city wherever you're at while looking down on the ground from a building.

    The Dead Don't Care is actually a very Fleming-style title as though it could be from some lost short story or something. Definitely worth a title just as much as the song can be used again in a future movie as an updated Bond theme. It's a befitting song for the last scene prior to a credit roll.
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