Is Thunderball Overrated?

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Ludovico wrote:
    And I agree with Timmer, TB as an action movie and large scale spectacle may be the best Bond movie ever.
    Possibly, yes.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Thunderball is one of the best Bond films. It's a fantastic story and a ton of fun, and that end battle, WOW.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,355
    I knew it was somewhere:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/7886/the-overrated-thread

    Hopefully these can be merged.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Coldfinger wrote:
    I love Thunderball, it's a great bond film. How can you be on this message board and not like it ?

    Amen.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Samuel001 wrote:
    I knew it was somewhere:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/7886/the-overrated-thread

    Hopefully these can be merged.

    Not sure they should be. We don't have many threads exclusively about Thunderball, and this one is very interesting. In generic threads, often debates get spread around too many topics, too many movies and lose their strength.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 2,015
    Thunderball = the guy who had lots of influence in creating the movie Bond (Terence Young) came back to do his first and only "formulaic" Bond. And he didn't like underwater scenes... Goldfinger by Terence Young, the great lost Bond movie ?!

    (PS : Well I answered before reading the other posts before, and then there's nothing new here.. l at least the last line is still original).

    Yet, TB is top #5 easily for me, and sometimes even #1 depending on my mood ! The gun/women line almost defines the movie Bond for me...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Goldfinger by Terence Young, the great lost Bond movie ?!
    One can only wonder.
  • Posts: 5,634
    Isn't Thunderball underrated ?

    I mean many people have Goldfinger as a personal favorite or best release (I beg to differ in so many words) and then there's a release not far ahead in OHMSS that's about on the same plateau to many, and you got Connerys fourth adventure in the middle that would seem to be often neglected

    That's just my perspective. Others will have there own thoughts and guess it really depends on how you feel about the respective releases of the 1960s, but reading this now, feel Thunderball deserves more praise than it maybe recieves. For sure the underwater sequences drag on too long and get damn boring mighty quick, but for the rest of it, you got perhaps the sexiest Bond girl in Luciana Paluzzi, an able Connery, decent main villain in Adolfo Celi and plenty of exotic locations to take in

    My biggest concerns would be the pre-titles sequence, said underwater scenes, lackluster Tom Jones theme and Volpe being killed off in favor of Claudine Auger as surviving Bond girl. Those minor issues apart, it's a decent watch and maybe doesn't get the credit it deserves
  • Posts: 1,596
    Lackluster Tom Jones theme? Damn I've always thought it was one of the series' best.
  • I guess it all comes down to the fact that audiences didn't want to see 007 playing golf and watching a villain eat fruit alongside a road. The studio wanted more money and worked up marketing. More gadgets, more flash, shallow character-driven abilities, and a movie that follows thw Bond formula (remember GF set the formula, so it was still new at the time) and you get the grandfather of DAD and perhaos what the continuation of SF could risk becoming.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 1,778
    Not only is TB one of me least favorite and least revisited Bond films but I also believe it might be the single most overrated Bond film in the series. The underwater action is slow, dull, and overdrawn. Alot of the cinematography has a dirty and ugly look to it. You have a director whose heart wasn't in it. And the beginning of Connery's disinterest in the role. His performance wasn't nearly as amazing as his first three.

    Although I understand why many view TB as iconic as it was the first "spectacle" Bond film, in my opinion it didn't do anything that other Bond films (before or after) did better. TB just never did anything for me.
  • Posts: 12,473
    As far as the Connery era goes, I'd say:
    Dr. No - a little bit underrated; not by everyone, but a few overlook just how good it is)
    From Russia with Love - overrated; takes a long time to get started, dull segments
    Goldfinger - usually properly rated; some on this community underrated it these days however, but it deserves most of its praise
    Thunderball - a bit overrated; okay, but not as good as the first three
    You Only Live Twice - very underrated; it annoys me to so many people hate on this one, as I find it one of Connery's better outings
    Diamonds Are Forever - properly rated; not the best film out there, but still entertaining to most
  • Posts: 11,189
    Does Connery look bored in TB? I never really noticed. If anything it might have been the last bit of fun he had.

    "Now don't you worry...I'll tell the chef"

    -"What sharp little eyes you have"
    -"Wait 'till you get to my teeth"

    -"perhaps you'd pull one for me...seems terribly difficult (shoots disc easily) no it isn't is it"

    "could it have been the front door bell"

    "A gun...looks more fitting for a woman"
    "You know much about guns?"
    "No...I know a little about women"

    -His smugness at the casino

    -"She's just dead"

    For me thats Connery on top form. True there may have been a few moments in which he looks a bit disinterested (his "nooo" when Domino asks if they must go on talking) but for me there's more positive than negative regarding his TB performance.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 1,778
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Does Connery look bored in TB? I never really noticed. If anything it might have been the last bit of fun he had.

    "Now don't you worry...I'll tell the chef"

    -"What sharp little eyes you have"
    -"Wait 'till you get to my teeth"

    -"perhaps you'd pull one for me...seems terribly difficult (shoots disc easily) no it isn't is it"

    "could it have been the front door bell"

    "A gun...looks more fitting for a woman"
    "You know much about guns?"
    "No...I know a little about women"

    -His smugness at the casino

    -"She's just dead"

    For me thats Connery on top form. True there may have been a few moments in which he looks a bit disinterested (his "nooo" when Domino asks if they must go on talking) but for me there's more positive than negative regarding his TB performance.

    While Connery's performance was far from bad in TB, to me he just didn't have that same verve for life that he so perfectly projected in his first 3 Bond films. I think by TB he was already getting bored with the role and by YOLT he was going to let everyone know it. As I've always said Connery's tenure as Bond can be split into two sections of performances. DN/FRWL/GF Connery where, as a performer, everything the man touched turned to gold. And the TB/YOLT/DAF Connery where he was either doing it because he was contractually obligated or simply for the money. I enjoy Connery as Bond during either one but nothing can touch his first 3 performances. Except maybe Craig in CR and SF but that's just my opinion.
  • Posts: 1,052
    It's one of those that has never really gripped me, great moments of course and it's beautiful but I just don't find it very engaging and the pace is quite numbing.

    TB, YOLT and DAF are not great in my opinion first 3 Connery films good, last 3 not so.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    My son is also a big Bond fan. The only films he did not fully appreciate were TB(boring), OHMSS(due to the ending alone) and the Brosnan films(smart kid).
  • Posts: 2,483
    Lackluster Tom Jones theme? Damn I've always thought it was one of the series' best.

    I've generally rated it as the best.

  • Posts: 15,124
    Lackluster Tom Jones theme? Damn I've always thought it was one of the series' best.

    One of the best Tom Jones song to me.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Ludovico wrote:
    Lackluster Tom Jones theme? Damn I've always thought it was one of the series' best.

    One of the best Tom Jones song to me.

    Absolutely,a brilliant entry into the series.
    He didnt pass out and the end of it for nothing !!

  • Posts: 2,341
    I don't think Connery looked bored in any of TB (that would come in his next film) but TB was the first one when they started to ignor the character or development of Bond himself in favor of some handy and unbelievable gadget.

    Would the portable breathing device work? As long as you hold your breath. The PTS when he shoots water at the pursuers who are on foot. Why not just drive away?

    GF by contrast has some great acting and insights into his character. Especially the scenes with Tilly.
    "here for the hunting season?"
    "Actually they're my ice skates"
    "Lovely sport." The look on his face is timeless.

    "My name is Bond. Ja-"
    "Now." As Tilly shows no interest whatsoever in what Bond's name is. Great scene.

    He does have some great scenes in TB as mentioned earlier and Sean plays them good but for the most part despite being the most spectacle of the first four, I still think it is the weakest as far as entertainment goes.
  • Posts: 15,124
    i find TB far more entertaining than GF. Bond spends way too much time in GF doing way too little and being way too passive.
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 11,425
    RC7 wrote: »
    It's a film that strives for scope and scale, intermittently achieving it, while also failing to keep its story moving at a dynamic pace.

    I feel this is a film with which observers confuse the terms, 'bloated' and 'epic'. It is certainly epic in its intentions and contains some grand cinematography, but I'm not convinced the film, as a narrative, delivers the necessary components to define it as 'epic'. It starts excellently, Ken Adam's Paris set being a personal highlight. Shrublands is decent, if a little overlong. Volpe is inspired and adds a real Fleming quality and I'm an admirer of Celli as Largo. As a superficial aside, I do love the shark pool, who doesn't? Further plusses - Barry's score is evocative, Connery 'is' Bond and Ted Moore does the 'Bond gloss' exceptionally.

    Despite this, I feel the negatives also stack up. It tries to go 'bigger and better', and proves that's not necessarily the greatest mantra to follow. It's been said over and over and over again, but the underwater scenes are, at best, sluggish. Given their billing as the film's, piece de resistance, they just don't hold water (excuse the pun). It takes an age to get going and the ending is a lacklustre affair that does nothing to justify the relative tedium of the build-up.

    That said, it's a luxurious, glistening, indulgent, overblown slice of Bond.

    Good summary. It looks good, the cast is reasonable, has nice Adam sets and Barry's score is one of best, but it's just terminally dull. IMO one of the more overrated films around here. YOLT is much more enjoyable.

    Yes, it's almost unrecognisable as a Terence Young film. He did such a good job with DN and FRWL, but TB just seemed to be wrong story for him.

    I rank it 5th out of the Connery films, in front of DAF.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    @Getafix, you just want to stir s**t up. :))
    Dull?
    I guess QOS is a favourite of yours then...?
  • Posts: 11,425
    TB is soporific. I'm not the only one to describe it as dull either - for every positive comment there's another saying how boring it is.

    I've always thought this about it - it's not something I've just thrown out there to wind people up. The title of the thread asks if it's overrated, so clearly the thought is in other people's minds too.

    I love Connery, the film has all the right components and looks good, but just never really builds any excitement. The underwater fights are wonderfully shot, with a fantastic score, but as entertainment it just misses the mark. For me TB is the first bloated failure in the series.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Getafix wrote: »
    TB is soporific. For me TB is the first bloated failure in the series.
    And THIS is what makes me think you must be under 40. Kids need rapid-fire film-making.
    :))
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 11,425
    yeah yeah - I'm clearly one of the Transformers generation, or whatever. so the 'kids' are under 40 these days? fair enough. i guess you have to keep on raising the age bar as you get older.

    any way, you're missing my point. willfully, I suspect.

    I don't look for 'rapid-fire' film making, just good film making. I'm one of the few on here who regularly sticks up for DN - hardly 'rapid fire' by modern standards.

    TB is not well paced and the story is not particularly well told. It's nothing to do with me wanting it to be more like GE or TND, with endless machine gun fire and explosions. Isn't all that Brosnan era explosions stuff more your cup of tea any way?

    As others have said, TB arrives at an odd and abrupt, anti-climactic ending. It just doesn't hold up well against the first three films in the series, which are indeed, better directed, structured and edited.


  • Posts: 12,473
    TB has grown on me and currently sits at #12 on my ranking, but the first 3 are without a doubt superior in my opinion still. It's probably overrated to an extent, as I believe it doesn't deserve to be a Top 10 Bond film, but it's still pretty solid overall. It overtook YOLT in my last Bond-a-thon and has a lot of great humor in it. Some of Connery's best moments are actually in this film.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I share the gripe of the underwater scenes go "on and on and on" but that aside, it's one of the finest imo. The score is only one of three I will hum to (also TLD and OHMSS) - it's a bit confused because it uses motifs from both "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" and the official theme song, but both work well. And the one-liners are among the best in the scenes. They seem very natural, whereas in recent films including Skyfall it feels forced, like they had to put it in to please people (it works in Skyfall though)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Getafix wrote: »
    Isn't all that Brosnan era explosions stuff more your cup of tea any way?
    Gosh no, I'm really REALLY old so I can deal with movies that have slow parts or uneven pacing. B-)
    The machine gun stuff in Brosnan's films is actually much like the underwater stuff in TB; there's more than needed but not so much that it distracts me.
  • Posts: 11,425
    FoxRox wrote: »
    TB has grown on me and currently sits at #12 on my ranking, but the first 3 are without a doubt superior in my opinion still. It's probably overrated to an extent, as I believe it doesn't deserve to be a Top 10 Bond film, but it's still pretty solid overall. It overtook YOLT in my last Bond-a-thon and has a lot of great humor in it. Some of Connery's best moments are actually in this film.

    Seems a fair assessment, although I still prefer YOLT.

    Broken down into individual elements there is much to appreciate in TB, but for me it is a case of a movie that overall is much less than the sum of its parts. The first three films are each almost perfect, and very different from each other. TB, for me, represents the first mis-step in the series - the beginning of the period when the films started to become much more hit and miss.

    For the record, I'd still take TB over any of the Brosnan films, any day of the week.

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