Is Skyfall losing its gloss and appeal ?

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @thelivingroyale, my apologies on that. ;)

    It's exactly how I felt when I first saw SF: I walked out of the theater disappointed, but at the same time, I waited four years for a new Bond film and saw all the amazing reviews for it, so I felt...compelled? forced?...to like it, I suppose. Saw it a few more times, watched it on blu-ray a few times, but it's just not my favorite. The plot holes, the inconsistency of the characters, the story, the action sequences, some of the forced comedy, these are the things that don't sit well with me and put it way below the beautiful entries of CR and QoS. It has its moments, but most of those lie with cool shots, great lines, outfits, and the cinematography; things that should be appreciated after the aforementioned key elements that make up the film.
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    Since SF is my second fave, I find it really hard to find these holes you are talking about @barryt007 or maybe I just don't want to see them. In my eyes, "Skyfall" is nothing but perfect Bond! ;)

    Now when I think out it the only thing that bugs me is how stupid Silva's plan is from time to time...

    I think it might be that you just don't want to see the plot holes, because there are plenty of them. ;)

    I think your right about that. :)>-
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    There are plot holes, but they never took me out of the film or bugged me during the film or bother me much at all afterwards. They are not so glaring as to be a problem for me. Not at all.

    Skyfall is still one of the best Bond films, in my opinion. Casino Royale is, too. QOS is not. I do enjoy Skyfall as much now as I first did.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    There are plot holes, but they never took me out of the film or bugged me during the film or bother me much at all afterwards. They are not so glaring as to be a problem for me. Not at all.

    Skyfall is still one of the best Bond films, in my opinion. Casino Royale is, too. QOS is not. I do enjoy Skyfall as much now as I first did.

    Me too, I enjoy it as much as the first time I saw it, some people just don't like the fact it was so successful and can't understand it's reception because they don't like it. It's success winds people up, it's getting the same treatment as The Dark Knight did when the dust settled and for me that films stands up pretty well despite it's plot holes.

    I've seen this SF plot holes comments so much it's getting tiring, practically all the series has plot holes, blockbusters full stop are riddled with them, it's not some new concept that Skyfall invented, the way you hear people banging on it about here you'd think SF had the worse pot holes in history of film.

    Yes the DC era is grittier and set in a more real world but when all said and done it's a bloody James Bond film and last thing we want is too much reality, they are supposed to be escapist fun aren't they?

    I'll take the plot holes over crow barring in cliches for the sake of it like they did previous other era's of the series.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,189
    With popular films in the series (GF, TB, TSWLM, GE and now SF) there are always a vocal minority that can't help bang on about how unjustly popular and overrated these films are. For every person that loves SF there will be another that will call it a poorly written mess.

    Personally I came out SF buzzing. I loved it then and, although I see some of the narrative flaws more now, I still think its WELL ACTED, exciting, well shot and even funny.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited August 2014 Posts: 17,800
    For me SF's weakness is less in the plot holes (as has been pointed out, movies WILL have them), and more about the dumb. It was dumb to tell MP to take the shot. It was dumb to take M to a mansion out in nowhere without a clever way to defend her there.
  • Posts: 6,432
    Its not the worst made Bond film though its certainly my least favourite. My opinion on Skyfall is pretty much as it was after I first watched it.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 1,068
    I guess it's this specific thread where I chime in to say I never took to Skyfall from the start and it doesn't get better for me over time with further viewings. The whole previously choreographed by Silva escape is totally laughable, the 'let's go to Scotland for a showdown' storyline is frankly totally ridiculous.

    Worse, once I heard the "home alone" moniker used to describe the showdown in the empty Skyfall stately pile I've never been able to shake this from my mind when I watch it! I actually don't have any issues with DC or Adele's part in it all but the find-a-way-to-send-off-M-with-a-bang plot just doesn't do it for me. If anything, both Bond and Q failed miserably in their jobs this outing and their evidence of grave fallibility (incompetence?) just doesn't fit well into a Bond story.

    At the multiplex screening the first time out, just at the end scene with Silva holding a gun to M's head, a noise I believed was the empty chamber being 'shot' into M, gave me an interesting twist only to realise it was a member of the audience nearby buggering about. That would've given an interesting spin on Silva's motivations. To be frank maybe it did happen but on subsequent viewings I haven't been that bothered to check!!

    Casino Royale is a much better Craig outing; maybe the only way for DC is downwards as for me, Skyfall is only an average Bond sorry.
  • Posts: 11,189
    That's called nit-picking.

    DUMB is when you are riding a fake CG wave or watching a pigeon double-taking.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    That's called nit-picking.

    DUMB is when you are riding a fake CG wave or watching a pigeon double-taking.

    I don't think odd, questionable choices like that are simple nit-picking. Both of those decisions didn't make sense and seem out of character for characters who almost always seemed so certain that they know what they're doing.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Dumb is what the script made M do in TWINE.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Dumb is when you have an aging Quartermaster go out into the field without authority and equip a rogue agent. That's dumb.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Also, I'm not hating on SF to be in the minority or be "cool and edgy" because I'm going against the general norm that is the overall positive opinion of the film...I just don't really care for it.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Dumb is what the script made M do in TWINE.
    LOL, quite.

  • Posts: 11,189
    I remember in TB Q says:

    "I find this business of equipping you in the field...on the run as it were...highly irregular"

    What made him soften up to Bond by LTK? :))
  • Posts: 908
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Dumb is what the script made M do in TWINE.
    LOL, quite.

    0K, what exactly is it what is so ridiculous about Ms' actions? When she goes in the field to join Electra her motivations are quite conceivable, since she is so emotional attached because of the things,that happened in the past. This is not comparable to all the dumbness that leads to SFs ' showdown, especially since she had her bodyguards with her in TWINE and no real reason to suspect what was coming. SF on the other hand ....
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 2,341
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I remember in TB Q says:

    "I find this business of equipping you in the field...on the run as it were...highly irregular"

    What made him soften up to Bond by LTK? :))

    Q never cared for Bond. Since GF his attitude toward Bond is that he considered the field operatives to be coddled children in the Mi6 stable. He seemed to be put off by Bonds snobbery and his lack of regard for the gadgets he worked so hard to perfect. On more than one occasion, Roger Moore's Bond seemed to go out of his way to irritate the old gent.

    By LTK maybe age had softened Q.
    I dunno....
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited August 2014 Posts: 17,800
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    0K, what exactly is it what is so ridiculous about Ms' actions?
    Ummm... getting herself ensconced into a situation with which she had a personal involvement-?
    The only time I saw M in the field and sort of bought it was LTK.

  • Posts: 11,189
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I remember in TB Q says:

    "I find this business of equipping you in the field...on the run as it were...highly irregular"

    What made him soften up to Bond by LTK? :))

    Q never cared for Bond. Since GF his attitude toward Bond is that he considered the field operatives to be coddled children in the Mi6 stable. He seemed to be put off by Bonds snobbery and his lack of regard for the gadgets he worked so hard to perfect. On more than one occasion, Roger Moore's Bond seemed to go out of his way to irritate the old gent.

    By LTK maybe age had softened Q.
    I dunno....

    I wouldn't say snobbery, more Bond's blatant disrespect.
  • Shardlake wrote: »
    I'll take SF plot holes over the tick the box shenanigans that are crow barred into LTK any day of the week.

    I watched it at the weekend for the first time in a while. It's a shame really as it really could have been a top film, Dalton is brilliant but the desire to put the usual cliches into a plot that really doesn't need it pretty much scuppers it at times.

    Everything is fine up until that bar fight (cheesy U.S 80's action guff). Though really the one thing that really does it for LTK is the inclusion of Q.

    People can go on for infinity about Desmond's charm and that it was nice to see him but seriously it makes no sense and really ruins the gritty feel of the story. I cringed so much when he opened that suitcase, those gadgets are so lame. Alarm clock but that Polaroid camera that is a laser, really!!

    That movie camera gun is ridiculous as well, I would have much preferred Bond being able to be resourceful and have obtained the tools he needed himself instead of this ridiculously cheesy moment that was lifted straight of a Moore film. Q's Broom handle radio?

    So many people go on about the Aston in SF and it's unnecessary, well LTK's no better, also Lupe's ridiculous I'm so in love with James routine almost made me want to throw up.

    I'll take SF over that, at least it's tone for the most part is even, the plot holes are there but it's executed so much better and Mendes is a much better director than John Glen, also SF doesn't have some of the worst incidental music in Bond history in it, some of that 80's cheese in LTK is utter rubbish.

    Don't get me wrong it's still better than a good percentage of the series but it could have been so much better with a bit more even tone and less trying to please the audience with moments which were clearly not warranted.

    What does LTK have to do with anything? We're talking about SF.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think what @Shardlake is saying is that people are going on about SF's plot-holes but are more lenient to other films.
  • Posts: 2,341
    The post is about SF and if any shortcomings that may be hurting its appeal. The shortcomings all lie at the plot holes. Of course other films have plotholes, most films do. We not taking Citizen Kane, Casablanca or All About Eve with their high standards of writing.
    Like I said, I find SF not a waste of my time. I enjoy the film despite the plot holes and ludicrous parts (or Bond's invicibility this is what taints the film for me) but lets sit back and enjoy the ride.
    It is when a film insults my intelligence (jump the shark, or nuke the fridge, or whatever you call it) when I shut down.
    And lots of Bond films do just that. No, we are not overlooking the flaws in LTK, DAF, GF etc we're just talking SF here.
  • Matt_Helm wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Dumb is what the script made M do in TWINE.
    LOL, quite.

    0K, what exactly is it what is so ridiculous about Ms' actions? When she goes in the field to join Electra her motivations are quite conceivable, since she is so emotional attached because of the things,that happened in the past. This is not comparable to all the dumbness that leads to SFs ' showdown, especially since she had her bodyguards with her in TWINE and no real reason to suspect what was coming. SF on the other hand ....

    M said it herself! To many peole is dying because of her, that's why Bond takes her to Skyfall. Calvin Dyson says in one of his vids that even if she had stayed in London with some bodyguards, Silva would still find a way to kill them all.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    M said it herself! To many peole is dying because of her, that's why Bond takes her to Skyfall.
    That's a bunch of contrived nonsense. Too many people were dying because of Silva. And the silly script. But, silly sells, hence the big box office, Silly also sold with MR & DAD.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    You could say M is a little senile, blaming herself for all those death's.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    M said it herself! To many peole is dying because of her, that's why Bond takes her to Skyfall.
    That's a bunch of contrived nonsense. Too many people were dying because of Silva. And the silly script. But, silly sells, hence the big box office, Silly also sold with MR & DAD.

    Well, MR is my favourite and SF is my second favourite so maybe I'm all for the "silly" ones! Do you really think that SF is silly?! :-O
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Do you really think that SF is silly?! :-O

    Pretty much. ;;)
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    Do you really think that SF is silly?! :-O

    Pretty much. ;;)

    Well, I'm in shock... ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    There are a few people who do not like the film, that is true.
    However, it remains one of my favorites.

    There isn't going to be a film that every single person rates highly.
  • There are a few people who do not like the film, that is true.
    However, it remains one of my favorites.

    There isn't going to be a film that every single person rates highly.
    There are a few people who do not like the film, that is true.
    However, it remains one of my favorites.

    There isn't going to be a film that every single person rates highly.

    That's true... :)>-
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