Is Skyfall losing its gloss and appeal ?

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Chang wrote: »
    I prefer CR & QOS but I do get sucked in whenever SF is on EPIX. Especially like the part where M & Bond drive up the mountains to Skyfall.

    Hands down my favorite scene in the entire film. That score still gives me chills.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Chang wrote: »
    I prefer CR & QOS but I do get sucked in whenever SF is on EPIX. Especially like the part where M & Bond drive up the mountains to Skyfall.

    Hands down my favorite scene in the entire film. That score still gives me chills.

    It's Sam's brilliant tribute to The Shining, and boy does it work.
  • The thing about Skyfall is... the relationship between Bond and M is central to the story, but I always thought M was very soft on Craig's Bond compared Brosnan's Bond. Especially in the The World is Not Enough (apart from complimenting him, which she admits she would never say to his face) the sheer disdain for 007 is very obvious. There was a same kind of dynamic between Craig and Dench, but Craig's Bond was always more arrogant towards his boss which defused the impact of the plot a little for me.

    Another thing I wondered about Skyfall is why they captured Silva instead of Bond shooting the villain, like he has done is so many previous films. Of course it was necessary for the story, but it made me re-evualte whether Bond really had to kill all those evil people before.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I don't think M ever has disdain for Bond, especially not when Judi and Dan's versions are considered. Good lord, he's her golden boy for crying out loud. The rough thing is that she can't really show that out loud as they have a boss/employee relationship. If you've watched Skyfall and still think they didn't get on, I'd give it another look. M made sure her legacy was carried on in Bond, and the fact that she willed to him that tenacious bulldog speaks volumes of just how much she respected, appreciated and cared for him as both an agent and a man.

    As for why Bond didn't kill Silva, he likely wanted M to see Silva first hand, so he could answer for what he had done, directly to her. I'm sure he figured she'd want to at least confront the guy, and then decide what should be done to him, considering their complicated history together and the responsibility she has to MI6 to capture those that kill their people and destroy their property.
  • Posts: 7,507
    "Well, you're bloody well not sleeping here."

    Love that line! :D I hope Fiennes will swear a lot too :P
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I can't wait to see the Mallory/Bond dynamic play out, especially with this plot unraveling around them. I think Bond grew to respect Mallory in Skyfall, especially for how much he went out of his way to protect M in the court scene and later when he helped bait Silva.

    When Bond kicks the spare gun to Mallory during the inquiry shootout I view it as a symbolic reaching across the aisles between them. I'm sure both had suspicions about one another, but have since shared a mutual respect and appreciation. They are both men of action and endurance, after all.
  • I don't think M ever has disdain for Bond, especially not when Judi and Dan's versions are considered. Good lord, he's her golden boy for crying out loud. The rough thing is that she can't really show that out loud as they have a boss/employee relationship. If you've watched Skyfall and still think they didn't get on, I'd give it another look. M made sure her legacy was carried on in Bond, and the fact that she willed to him that tenacious bulldog speaks volumes of just how much she respected, appreciated and cared for him as both an agent and a man.

    As for why Bond didn't kill Silva, he likely wanted M to see Silva first hand, so he could answer for what he had done, directly to her. I'm sure he figured she'd want to at least confront the guy, and then decide what should be done to him, considering their complicated history together and the responsibility she has to MI6 to capture those that kill their people and destroy their property.

    Thank you for the thorough reply, very helpful indeed. :)

    Perhaps the word 'disdain' wasn't very well chosen. I know that she does respect him a great deal, but I do think she was much colder towards Brosnan than to Craig. It's like the movies treated her more like an old lady towards the end; she still acted angry all the time, but the fact that she cared for Bond became more obvious.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    I can't wait to see the Mallory/Bond dynamic play out, especially with this plot unraveling around them. I think Bond grew to respect Mallory in Skyfall, especially for how much he went out of his way to protect M in the court scene and later when he helped bait Silva.

    When Bond kicks the spare gun to Mallory during the inquiry shootout I view it as a symbolic reaching across the aisles between them. I'm sure both had suspicions about one another, but have since shared a mutual respect and appreciation. They are both men of action and endurance, after all.

    I agree entirely. This dynamic has a lot of potential and both Fiennes and Craig are of the same calibre (acting wise) so I'm looking forward to it. I already could feel a much better and more interesting relationship between these two compared to the Mother/son nonsense that has been playing out with Dench since CR. I can't tell you how ecstatic I am that this rubbish is finally over and done with. Now that Craig's Bond is free of surrogate mother's clutches, maybe he can start showing a little more interest in women and 'loving' a little more. He's been a bit of a grump for most of the past two films. He'd better get it on with both Lea and Monica in SP.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited December 2014 Posts: 28,694
    bondjames wrote: »
    I can't wait to see the Mallory/Bond dynamic play out, especially with this plot unraveling around them. I think Bond grew to respect Mallory in Skyfall, especially for how much he went out of his way to protect M in the court scene and later when he helped bait Silva.

    When Bond kicks the spare gun to Mallory during the inquiry shootout I view it as a symbolic reaching across the aisles between them. I'm sure both had suspicions about one another, but have since shared a mutual respect and appreciation. They are both men of action and endurance, after all.

    I agree entirely. This dynamic has a lot of potential and both Fiennes and Craig are of the same calibre (acting wise) so I'm looking forward to it. I already could feel a much better and more interesting relationship between these two compared to the Mother/son nonsense that has been playing out with Dench since CR. I can't tell you how ecstatic I am that this rubbish is finally over and done with. Now that Craig's Bond is free of surrogate mother's clutches, maybe he can start showing a little more interest in women and 'loving' a little more. He's been a bit of a grump for most of the past two films. He'd better get it on with both Lea and Monica in SP.

    To be fair, he's had every right to be a grump. Most men would've been driven to absolute self-destruction and oblivion under similar circumstances.

    Still, I agree about the new dynamic. We had a female M for 17 years (!), so to get the first male M in a long time is great. It's opens the opportunity to do so many great things with that new dynamic. We'll get to see Bond have a completely fresh relationship with his boss than he did with Judi's M. I don't see Craig's Bond as being the smart aleck Connery's could often be with the pointed Bernard Lee M, nor the troublemaker he was in his rookie days with Dench's M.

    Like I said, going off the end of Skyfall I think it'll be less about M telling Bond to do this and that and being snarky and more about two men of action fighting against the world. I see a lot of teamwork happening between them and a deep formation of trust. If Mallory again has to prove the usefulness of the 00 section or faces any kind of offensive strikes, he will consult with Bond. I definitely see these two going all out together and facing off against whatever threats are waiting from SPECTRE, even if they stand alone.

    My only worry with that scenario would be seeing Eve in the field again. While it would aid in appeasing radical feminists everywhere, it would be completely contradictory to her character. I will except her picking up a gun in a moment of crisis, but no "I changed my mind, I want back in the field again" bull.
  • Posts: 3,276
    barryt007 wrote:
    Why,if you think this is so,do you think this is happening ?
    Because it was overhyped!

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    Like I said, going off the end of Skyfall I think it'll be less about M telling Bond to do this and that and being snarky and more about two men of action fighting against the world. I see a lot of teamwork happening between them and a deep formation of trust.

    Agreed 100%. I felt that developing already in SF and loved it. The wink from Bond to Mallory in SF was telling & reflective of the new relationship. Just trust me so to speak. They would not have been able to get away with that so easily with a female M
    My only worry with that scenario would be seeing Eve in the field again. While it would aid in appeasing radical feminists everywhere, it would be completely contradictory to her character. I will except her picking up a gun in a moment of crisis, but no "I changed my mind, I want back in the field again" bull.

    I think we thankfully have less of this to worry about given Harris' recent comments.

    All the pieces are in place. Now "just don't cock it up" as was said. Love that bit. Brought back Bernard Lee to mind for some reason (I think he used to say don't muck it up).
  • GrizzlorGrizzlor NJ, USA
    Posts: 7
    I really enjoyed SF, hasn't waned at all. The main issue I had/have with it is that Javier Bardem is just not a convincing villain. He's better than many of the recent Bond villains, but that's a low threshold to surpass. Hopefully the villains are better in Spectre.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I thought he was pretty good, if a bit cartoonish. He was suitably villainous & he had a personal grudge that he acted out quite well. Better than Almaric's greasy Greene certainly. I liked Mickelson's Le Chiffre as well & he was more realistic arguably.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 7,507
    bondjames wrote: »
    I thought he was pretty good, if a bit cartoonish. He was suitably villainous & he had a personal grudge that he acted out quite well. Better than Almaric's greasy Greene certainly. I liked Mickelson's Le Chiffre as well & he was more realistic arguably.

    I thought Silva was the best so far in a very strong array of villains throughout Craig's Bond tenure. Le Chiffre, Mr White, Demitrios, Greene, Yusef, Medrano, Patrice, Silva... I love them all! No matter what other people might say about them... :P For me Craig has had the best and most consistent level of villlains since Connery... And by the looks of it, the trend will only continue!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Silva was good in that he was charismatically weird but overall I think Craig's best villain was Le Chiffre. He was just better realised on to film.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Silva was good in that he was charismatically weird but overall I think Craig's best villain was Le Chiffre. He was just better realised on to film.

    Absolutely agree.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'd agree that le Chiffre was his best villain so far, I'd like to have seen more of
    D Greene, as I think he had great potential. Although I wasn't disappointed by
    Silva.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited December 2014 Posts: 4,043
    I like all Craig's adversaries, Mads was superb as LeChiffre, yes Greene was underwritten but Almaric did a fine job, I loved is slimy approach, you could always tell their was a psychotic under the surface just simmering away.

    His speech to Camile about Bond being a tragic case is delivered with relish and his moment when he reveals to Medrano what he's actually signed and the line about what will happen if doesn't keep his end of the bargain is a particular highlight and of course his caged animal reaction to fighting Bond as the Hotel goes up in flames around them. He's no physical threat to Bond but when he starts swinging that axe in desperation he seems particularly dangerous.

    Silva made more of an impression and I thought Bardem played it beautifully but if I was going for a favourite I'd say Mads, the moment he appears he oozes menace, his interactions with Craig at the table and of course the torture sequence, it was nice to get a villain who became more dangerous as his situation got worse, that torturing was a real act of desperation as he really knew his life was on the line, making him just like Greene, that more dangerous.

    Silva was more familiar to some of the classic villains due to his more over the top approach but LeChiffre and Greene made for more subtle original takes on the traditional Bond villain.

    1. LeChiffre
    2. Silva
    3. Greene


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I agree totally about Almaric's Greene being unusually dangerous and psychotic. I felt an uneasy discomfort whenever he was around. Given how small he is, it was a particularly good acting job by Almaric. Greasy though.
  • Posts: 1,548
    SF. Classic Bond. Nuff said. Let's move on.
  • Posts: 7,653
    One can only hope that SPECTRE will improve on every flaw that really made SF not the great movie it should have been. Visually the movie was beautiful but story wise it lacked cohesion and did Craig, Dench & Bardem no favors.
    And that American director made the British intelligence service look like a bunch of amateurs.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 7,507
    Shardlake wrote: »
    His speech to Camile about Bond being a tragic case is delivered with relish and his moment when he reveals to Medrano what he's actually signed and the line about what will happen if doesn't keep his end of the bargain is a particular highlight and of course his caged animal reaction to fighting Bond as the Hotel goes up in flames around them. He's no physical threat to Bond but when he starts swinging that axe in desperation he seems particularly dangerous.

    Completely agree! It is a great moment showing Quantum and Greene's power and slyness, and Amalric delivers it perfectly. I really believe Greene is the most underrated villain in the franchise. He is so pure evil, psychotic, unpleasant and quirky, so sly, manipulative and powerful. When people point out that he is no physical threat it makes me roll my eyes. When was that ever a requirement for a Bond villain?

    But this is probably more suited to the "QoS appreciation thread"...
    SaintMark wrote: »
    And that American director made the British intelligence service look like a bunch of amateurs.

    "American director"? Do you mean it as a metaphor of some sort, or are you just badly informed?
  • Posts: 7,653
    I always thought of Mendes as an American based upon his list of movies. Which are not too shabby If I might add.
    For me SF feels to rushed as if the story wan't thought through and they ended up with stuff that might look cool but made not a really cohesive story. In that it was the worst culprit of all 007 movies, and they do tend to take the mickey with truth and reality. But even in their OTT kind of way the stories make sense.

    Anybody knows that I am no fan of QoB, but story wise it is easily one of the more cohesive and working stories of any 007 movie. Too bad the Director was not up to the job.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited December 2014 Posts: 1,756
    The worst thing about Skyfall is it's pointless scenes, Istanbul, the stupid boat entrance to the Macao casino, and Eve.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Too bad the Director was not up to the job.
    I think Forster could have turned out a superiour film if he hadn't been so distracted by having to WRITE it at the same time he FILMED it... ;)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Too bad the Director was not up to the job.
    I think Forster could have turned out a superiour film if he hadn't been so distracted by having to WRITE it at the same time he FILMED it... ;)

    Exactly. And yet he still managed to make a better movie than other Bond films that had no production woes whatsoever.
  • O6GO6G
    Posts: 80
    barryt007 wrote:
    Thats a fair and balanced view of Craig's films @dramaticscenesofQOS .
    Where do you have the 3 films on your rankings list ?



    CR (except Camille was better cast than Vesper with her acting and backstory)
    QoS
    SF

    Did you just say that?
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree entirely. This dynamic has a lot of potential and both Fiennes and Craig are of the same calibre (acting wise) so I'm looking forward to it. I already could feel a much better and more interesting relationship between these two compared to the Mother/son nonsense that has been playing out with Dench since CR. I can't tell you how ecstatic I am that this rubbish is finally over and done with.

    Have to say I agree with this. Dench got a lot of leeway and credit because she is a national treasure and an excellent actress - but her 'M' started to get very tiresome and repetitive after TWINE ...

  • RC7RC7
    edited January 2015 Posts: 10,512
    Didn't really now which thread to put this in, so plumped for this one.

    Just been browsing the newly released consolidated viewing figures for 2014 (UK).

    SF premiere - 24th Dec on ITV was the most watched film of the year with 8.101m. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was a distant second with 6.391m, with Avengers in third with 6.044m.

    Oh, and for fellow Sherlock fans - It was the most watched scripted show for the year with 12.724m. Beaten only by The Great British Bake Off (Sigh) and two world cup fixtures.
  • Posts: 11,425
    jobo wrote: »
    "Well, you're bloody well not sleeping here."

    Love that line! :D I hope Fiennes will swear a lot too :P

    I don't like SF so no surprises here, but I always felt that line was gratuitous and out of place. Hasn't she been a big enough b**** already? Does she really need to underline that fact like this? I just found it so boring during the Dench era - the constant trust issues and faux hostility. I actually preferred the more affectionate dynamic with Brosnan.

    I hate the way she orders that damn 'shot' as well at the start. It's so contrived. Let Bond finish the job for f**** sake, if he's your top agent. He's in hand to hand combat, engaging the enemy. Taking the shot there is a 50/50 chance you take out the wrong guy and lose the disk. All totally moronic. Plus, as others have pointed out, when Moneypenny takes out Bond, she should immediately follow up with another shot.

    Any way....
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