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two points...
SF is the first Bond film to be directed by an Oscar-winning director. IMHO, it showed: the look and feel of SF was superior to any other Bond film. But some would say: "too slick, all style over substance." Fair enough.
Thomas Newman's score was recently ranked at #19 by the fans on this site. It's only one of two to ever get an Oscar nom, and yet it is dismissed. My guess is that there is a little bit of anti-American bias with that, considering Arnold is a Brit and had scored the previous six films. But as good as Arnold is, he's not in Newman's league. Sorry. And the SF soundtrack is the best non-Barry OST in the series.
I may be one of the few (not sure) but I love the movie and I actually love the score too. It is different sounding but very listenable to my ears. To be honest, I've always liked the new composers that they've brought on (Martin, Hamlisch, Conti, Kamen, Serra etc.). I think they all bring a new dimension to the films so I'm happy when they mix it up a bit.
I'm not sure there is a "Barry" formula. The only formula Barry had was to write most of the soundtrack around one or two themes. Both Arnold and Newman were tasked to write more music than Barry did. Newman's SF OST has about 30 different, original pieces.
One person's junk food is another's nutrition: I don't find Newman's OST bland AT ALL. And there is a series of tracks, from Bond's fitness testing to when he meets Severine for a drink, that is as stirring and gripping as any I have heard.
Arnold has original music too but he still came up with a better Bondian sound than Newman. Most of Newman's score leaves much to be desired. There are some good tracks but not enough.
Well, I didn't expect any other reaction from you ;) :))
I think it is a funny clever line which ends the scene on a high note. I don't really care to overanalyze it. Not all lines need to be overanalyzed, especially in a Bond film. For instance Roger Moore is considered the "warm", "human" Bond with a huge heart who "didn't like killing that much". Yet he makes more inappropriate jokes about his victims than any other Bond. Do I care? No. And I know neither do you ;)
And regarding Newman's score:
The only thing it lacked was more of Adele's theme tune. That is basically the "Bondian element" which is lacking a bit. Add a few nice arrangements of that at appropriate moments, and the Skyfall score is perfect. I have heard so many rumours of why the theme tune is not more prominent in the score, so I am not sure of where to put the blame. But I hope they can change that for Spectre.
After reading many responses in this topic, and especially those using comments like "It's not Bond-Ian enough", I got a bit disappointed. This topic seems to channel certain criticism that indirectly actually enhances the loss of its gloss and appeal. Because in all honesty I think it mainly exists within fan communities.
It's one of the reasons why I wanted to give new insights on "Skyfall" in this topic: http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/10853/why-criticism-on-skyfall-never-truly-gained-ground-but-flourishes-in-small-fan-circles#latest . Because I'm fairly convinced that "Skyfall" has the chance to get more "Evergreen-status" than for instance "QOS" or "DAD". I'm fairly convinced it will be a classic in the future, similarly to "Goldfinger", "The Spy Who Loved Me" and to a lesser extent "GoldenEye" and "Casino Royale". And by saying that I'm not looking so much to the quality of the film.
A movie "QOS" gets some renewed respect yes, but that's mainly within the fan community, not outside the fan community. "QOS" will get that status of "being forgettable", like "TMWTGG" and "TWINE".
Like Dr. No and The Spy Who Loved Me. I love those movies too but hate their soundtracks.
Although we can't expect the level of scoring that Barry bought to the series, he was one of the key elements to why those films have endured, some might say Connery, Young etc but imagine those films without Barry's touch and just some generic effort. Barry leaves a mark on everything he worked on, even huge flops like Raise The Titanic, King Kong etc are given something, they don't deserve but Barry could excite as well as produce music that swelled with emotion.
I'm hoping that Newman really takes the bull by the horns this time and realises he's scoring a Bond film with Spectre and not anything he's done before including SF and tries not to so much leave his own stamp but evoke the best of Bond scoring as well as accompanying appropriately what we are hoping is going to one of the finest of the series.
From what some of us have heard this is crying out for something like Barry's OHMSS. By that I mean not that level of quality, it's not going to happen (we are talking about one of the finest scores in film history). I mean Newman needs to make it exciting and use the Bond theme at the right time, variations like Barry so brilliantly did and also let it blare when it needs to. Though also like OHMSS it needs to be emotional, he hit on some great moments with the SF score, his cue for the row of coffins sequence which was essentially like M's theme was an example. I know some of us complained about Arnold's lack of subtlety during the Brosnan era but I think Newman needs to step on the pedal more this time round and maybe not be so delicate, I don't want the JB theme every 10 minute but I do want to hear it more this time round.
Also if Adele is back maybe she needs to not be on the opening credits and like OHMSS use an instrumental and then like that film weave a love theme by Adele into the film. I know it's not likely but I can hope can't I?
The thing that worries me about Adele doing the theme is Spectre is a sinister title and can she really pull a song to match it, I guess we'll see.
So I agree that the score is very important. I think the SF score was a big part of that movie's success. I don't see too many people outside of the dedicated fan community complaining about the score (heck it got the nomination so some people must have liked it).
As mentioned, I love the movie, and think it will hold up over time as one of the better efforts from EON (although a drop in the rankings is inevitable with time).
Now just a second. Regardless of the use of Lalo's Mission-Impossible theme, in ALL four M:I-movies I haven't heard a proper rendition of the original theme. Yes, Michael Giacchino did a great job with the main title score, but during the movie the M:I-theme was heard in bits and pieces...similarly what David Arnold did for the Craig-films, and what Thomas Newman did.
On top of that...may I remind you that it was actually David Arnold who set the trend for being "careful" with the Bond theme? It's one of the reasons why I find the "Quantum Of Solace"-theme lackluster, and certainly NOT the "Skyfall-score. The latter actually used the Bond theme when Bond and M took the Aston Martin DB5. So that's already a step forward to what David Arnold tried to do.
So I think it's much fairer to put the blaim on Mr David Arnold and not on Thomas Newman. Actually, David Arnold himself helped out Mr Newman. Moreover, give Newman a break guys. He only did it once so far. I think Arnold's influence on the Bond films since "Casino Royale" was simply too big. He gave way way too much narrative weight on the James Bond theme, hence the criticism we have now.
Also some other thing, as so far no one really read my topic in here: http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/10853/why-criticism-on-skyfall-never-truly-gained-ground-but-flourishes-in-small-fan-circles#latest . What's actually wrong with "less James Bond theme"? One could argue that this element in part actually prevented musical re-invention of the music for Bond films. One can actually argue, that by having less "straight-in-your-face-James-Bond-Theme", the Bond films got also more recognition OUTSIDE the strict boundaries of the, what fans call, black-and-white of "set of Bond rules". "Skyfall" was therefore not only judged as a very good Bond film, but ALSO as a very good film regardless of the Bond franchise confinement. And this also goes for its music. Hence the recognition it got. So "Skyfall" basically "grabbed" movie-go-ers by the balls that didn't went to see "Casino Royale" and "Quantum Of Solace", and "threw" them in their seats. It worked. For them.
And I think that actually helped the franchise. It helped that on certain aspects the wishes of traditional Bond fans were not heard, at least not indirectly. Nevertheless, I am pretty certain "SPECTRE" will have much more of those traditional "Bond rules". Not Bond references, but "Bond rules" (not a quick flash of the gearstick of Bond's Aston Martin DB5, but simply the use of Monty Norman's theme during action sequences). I want to bet with every fan in here that the gunbarrel will be back at the start. Prepare for a deafening Gunbarrel-intro, fully re-invented and re-arranged by Thomas Newman without David Arnold's help. I want to bet that he will include way more of his own renditions of the James Bond theme. Certain of it.
One last thing? Am I correct that most fans in here actually want to have back the early music from the Brosnan-films? That we actually want Thomas Newman to do copy-paste work of the tracks "All In A Day's Work" (TND) and "Come In 007 Your Time Is Up" (TWINE)? Well, I don't want that. Thomas Newman now needs to have the chanCe to give his own rendition of the Bond theme, similarly to what George Martin did with LALD and Bill Conti with FYEO. It needs to breathe some "Bond", but I also want it to be recognizable as a true Thomas Newman score.
And moreover guys. Be....a bit more patient ;-).
Newman feels like a step back.
Having said that, I am also a critical of Newman not using Adele's theme in his score. I think it was done only once in Macau.
I liked Newman's score and I too think he is going to satisfy all of us with SP. It's going to be an epic score full of Bondian elements. I am in agreement on this.
1) I agree with the posters on here who don't like the score. It was definitely a step back from Arnold's previous 2 scores, which were easily his best, and not far off John Barry. The fact that he isn't doing the next one doesn't bode well.
2) Mendes direction lacked the violent edge that we saw in Craig's previous 2 films. The blood, sweat, grit and dirt suddenly disappeared in SF, which was a big disappointment.
3) The plot had plenty of glaring holes in it.
4) The film was lacking a few more high tempo, spectacular action set-pieces that we saw in the pre-credit scenes.
5) Craig looked abysmal in this film. In fact, it is the worst he has looked in all his Bond films. The skinhead made him look ill (may have been intentional) but the grey beard he sports in the first part of the film made him look haggard too, particularly in the scene when he visits M in her apartment. Seeing him with slightly longer hair at the press conference for Spectre, and he looks 10 years younger than he did in SF. I want my Bond looking cool, not ill.....
6) The film feels too slow at times, particularly in the second half.
7) There are too many Nolan Batman influences for my liking. Bardem comes across like Heath Ledger's Joker in a fair few scenes, particularly when locked in the glass cage and escapes after teasing a guard. Complete Dark Knight rip-off. And the score by Newman treads painfully close to the Zimmer score in certain Batman-type moments (Bond hanging off the elevator in Shanghai, escaping down the Priest's Hole at Skyfall, etc.)
In hindsight, SF has dropped a fair few places now in my rankings, to the point when I actually now think QoS is a better film than SF (CR is still my No. 1 Bond film).
Now....I tried my uttermost best to type a nice piece, backed with arguments. And then this is the only thing you have to say ;-)? Call me passionate, but what do you think of the rest of it?
It is exactly for your comments that I made this topic: http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/10853/why-criticism-on-skyfall-never-truly-gained-ground-but-flourishes-in-small-fan-circles#latest . Including all of people's wishlists (also my wishlists) doesn't necessarily make a movie good or bad. In some way, all of your points could also be seen as something groundbreaking....or as positive elements. It's not that black-and-white.
With the elevator music.
:))
yes, elevator music is an appropriate way to describe it!